What do Burke's interviews tell us?

[otg]

Yes, I've considered that BR knew exactly what happened because he was involved, but there's something about his explanation, IMO, that doesn't seem to be a confessional, but more like a witness account. This part of the report seems detached from the rest, almost like it occurred on a different day. I mean, how did he go from being so short, abrupt, and secretive, to basically spilling the beans? It's like something has been redacted from the report, or the interviewer led him to this discussion with leading or argumentative questions. To get a 9 yr old to open up like this, especially a 9 yr old who was being uncooperative, I would think the interviewer would have had to have challenged him somehow...like deliberately told an outlandish story, to see if he would correct it. But, for BR to say he knew what happened, was jarring, and if taken at face value, he could only have known because either he witnessed the attack, or because he was an active participant.

I agree with all you said, dodie, and with Nehemiah above saying that we just don't know exactly what was was said, how it was said, and what may have been "interpreted" by each person along the way who passed it on and brought us the information. It's just one of those things that leaves us scratching our heads trying to figure it out.

 

[4Jacy]

The phrase "oohing and aahing over her" is not something I'd expect a boy that age to say. That is adult phraseology.

I thougt the same thing when I read that. I've never heard a boy that age expressing himself like that.

I am of the opposite view that BDI killed JRB. I just couldn't wrap my head or heart around that. However, I think he knew a lot of what happened to JBR prior to her murder and of the murder itself.

I would really like to know more about what he is doing currently in his life. I know one thing, were I he, I would have changed my name long ago!

 

[spring24]

I haven't read all the responses, but I know people have mentioned Burke possibly having Aspergers on other threads. If he does his responses don't surprise me one bit. And seem typical of a child who feels things differently.

And his irritation over being asked about JB also seems normal. I'm sure he had been asked non stop about it, and was irritated because it was something he didn't want to talk about again and in my opinion something he didn't know anything about.

 

[midwest mama]

speaking of the knife...I remember the housekeeper saying she took the knife away from BR, and hid it in the linen closet. She also said that only PR would have known, because she would have seen it, when getting clean sheets. Does this sound reasonable? because who's to say BR didn't go looking for it, and checked some likely hiding spots? Also, even if PR was guilty, would she have made a special trip to the linen closet, to retrieve this particular knife? IDK about this. Where was BR's room, as related to this closet? because in his interview, he said he knew what happened, and that somebody, 'took a knife out or hit her on the head'. I was wondering if he witnessed somebody taking the knife out of the closet. That particular part of the interview was so disjointed, that IMO, some things were redacted. moo

:bump: Browsing through Kolars book, came across some info in the chapter titled Enigma that caught my attention. The following is with regard to an interview by Detective Patterson of Burke at the White's house on the afternoon of Dec. 26.

From pg. 346-347: "Patterson was able to elicit some details about events leading up to the kidnapping and was informed that Burke had played at home until around 1630 - 1700 hours on Christmas day and had put on a sweater before heading to the White dinner party." (above bbm: what color, what kind of fabric content, would any of the fibers identified on JB's body have matched?)

"He played and ate some sandwiches while there and stated that the family went directly home after the party. This conflicted with statements offered by the parents who reported that they had made two stops on the way home to deliver Christmas presents to family friends."

"Burke stated that he put on his P.J's., brushed his teeth, and went to bed upon arriving home. He estimated this time frame to have been between 2030 and 2100 hours." ( above bbm: Kolar stated in his last radio interview with Tricia to KK's phone question, that there were fecal stained boys' pajama bottoms found in JB's room - Burke's. JR said he played with Burke, helping him assemble a Christmas toy = conflict with above. And, the time for going to bed is 8:30 to 9 pm, which would have conflicted with the later time the R's said they got home and were busy putting JB to bed.)

Now, going to pg. 353, Kolar references watching the video interview between Berhnard and Burke. Then on pg. 354 he writes this: "He stated that he thought someone had quietly carried her downstairs to the basement and that person had then either stabbed JonBenet or struck a blow to her head with a hammer. A chill ran down the back of my neck as I watched Burke twice physically imitate the act of striking a blow with his right arm during his casual discussion of this matter." (bbm: this might indicate his 'handedness' being a right hander, and if he had struck JB from behind, with the blow on the right side of her head, more likely to have come from a right handed person?)

This is information gleaned by interview just a few hours after the crime incident, before JR and Patsy even knew about it, and before anyone had access to Burke to feed information to "reformat" his recollection. I read on another post by someone (sorry I can't remember who) with knowledge of Asberger's, that those kids ususally can't lie when asked about something. So what if all these statements are true?????

I bumped this thread with the quoted reply because of the tie into the Swiss Army Knife found in the WC. Also the Hi-Tec boot print could later be tied to Burke. IIRC, there was also another unidentifiable shoe print found in the WC.

I find myself looking strongly at the possibility of Burke's actual involvement with JB's death more and more. There are accounts of Burke having his friends for sleepovers previously. Is it possible a friend(s) of Burke might have become too cozy with JB at another time, and these boys were responsible for some of the 'chronic' evidence found on JB. And could it have happened again at the Dec 23 Christmas party?

 

[dodie20]

I haven't read all the responses, but I know people have mentioned Burke possibly having Aspergers on other threads. If he does his responses don't surprise me one bit. And seem typical of a child who feels things differently.

And his irritation over being asked about JB also seems normal. I'm sure he had been asked non stop about it, and was irritated because it was something he didn't want to talk about again and in my opinion something he didn't know anything about.

How could he not know anything about what happened? He was in the house when his sister was murdered. Saying he knows something, is not a put down to him, it's just stating the obvious. He himself, said he knew what happened, and then he preceded to relate how somebody took JB quietly, then took her down to the basement, and then took a knife out or hit her on the head. From what I understand about when the information was released, he shouldn't have known about the knife or head bash, but he did. So? Is it unreasonable to think BR, at the least was a witness? Also, if you're basing your opinion on the R's insistence that BR slept through everything, well, that got debunked long ago JR even finally admitted that BR did not sleep through the 911, like they had previously said. All moo.

 

[UKGuy]

:bump: Browsing through Kolars book, came across some info in the chapter titled Enigma that caught my attention. The following is with regard to an interview by Detective Patterson of Burke at the White's house on the afternoon of Dec. 26.

From pg. 346-347: "Patterson was able to elicit some details about events leading up to the kidnapping and was informed that Burke had played at home until around 1630 - 1700 hours on Christmas day and had put on a sweater before heading to the White dinner party." (above bbm: what color, what kind of fabric content, would any of the fibers identified on JB's body have matched?)

"He played and ate some sandwiches while there and stated that the family went directly home after the party. This conflicted with statements offered by the parents who reported that they had made two stops on the way home to deliver Christmas presents to family friends."

"Burke stated that he put on his P.J's., brushed his teeth, and went to bed upon arriving home. He estimated this time frame to have been between 2030 and 2100 hours." ( above bbm: Kolar stated in his last radio interview with Tricia to KK's phone question, that there were fecal stained boys' pajama bottoms found in JB's room - Burke's. JR said he played with Burke, helping him assemble a Christmas toy = conflict with above. And, the time for going to bed is 8:30 to 9 pm, which would have conflicted with the later time the R's said they got home and were busy putting JB to bed.)

Now, going to pg. 353, Kolar references watching the video interview between Berhnard and Burke. Then on pg. 354 he writes this: "He stated that he thought someone had quietly carried her downstairs to the basement and that person had then either stabbed JonBenet or struck a blow to her head with a hammer. A chill ran down the back of my neck as I watched Burke twice physically imitate the act of striking a blow with his right arm during his casual discussion of this matter." (bbm: this might indicate his 'handedness' being a right hander, and if he had struck JB from behind, with the blow on the right side of her head, more likely to have come from a right handed person?)

This is information gleaned by interview just a few hours after the crime incident, before JR and Patsy even knew about it, and before anyone had access to Burke to feed information to "reformat" his recollection. I read on another post by someone (sorry I can't remember who) with knowledge of Asberger's, that those kids ususally can't lie when asked about something. So what if all these statements are true?????

I bumped this thread with the quoted reply because of the tie into the Swiss Army Knife found in the WC. Also the Hi-Tec boot print could later be tied to Burke. IIRC, there was also another unidentifiable shoe print found in the WC.

I find myself looking strongly at the possibility of Burke's actual involvement with JB's death more and more. There are accounts of Burke having his friends for sleepovers previously. Is it possible a friend(s) of Burke might have become too cozy with JB at another time, and these boys were responsible for some of the 'chronic' evidence found on JB. And could it have happened again at the Dec 23 Christmas party?

midwest mama,
This is what I think did indeed happen. The historical abuse of JonBenet was perpetrated by both non-family and family members, hence the collusion and cover up.

I think, not entirely without the parents knowledge, the molestation of JonBenet was slowly spiralling out of control, ending in her death on 12/25.

Other families may have been tangentially involved, increasing the desire for silence.

Kolar thinks the original crime-scene was upstairs in the kitchen. So what was BR's pajamas doing in JonBenet's bedroom?

As an aside that is now two fecally stained pairs of clothing found in JonBenet's bedroom, another pair lay on her bathroom floor, whats all that about? Add in Holly Smith's remarks about JonBenet's underwear, and it begins to look like a fashion statement from the Ramsey children, i.e. we love fecally stained clothing, sic.

JonBenet's bedroom is linked via the bloodstain on her pillow, and we have BR's pajamas lying on the floor, what?

I rather fancy JonBenet''s bedroom as the primary crime-scene, although I have to respect Kolars superior knowledge of the case.

 

[SunnieRN]

Right. She became immediately defensive when LE questioned BR's possible involvement, yet strangely submissive when asked about her own possible abuse as a child. Nedra's odd comment about JB being "only a little bit molested", whether she actually said it that way or not, as well as the inexplicable silence of BOTH grandparents (as well as Patsy's other sister) raise a red flag to me. Does "only a little bit molested" mean it was no big deal? It seems to suggest a more casual attitude about sexual activity in the family. How about "only a little bit strangled, only a little bit bashed, only a little bit DEAD"?

What went on this family and what did these children endure. My gosh DeeDee, the more we learn, the more disgusted I am.

For anyone who doesn't have Kolar's book, Foreign Faction: Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet?, or if you'd like to use some quotes from it in discussion, I've posted a section he wrote on "Sexual Behavior Problems" including some of the research and evidence we haven't seen before here:

http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?p=190987&posted=1#post190987

You're welcome to quote Kolar's book, of course; just give him credit.

Thank you for posting this. It does lend credence to the beliefs that many of us have voiced, that BR would be capable of, or involved in, JonBenet's molestation and death. It would also explain the need the R's felt to protect Burke, as I am sure they knew that something was 'wrong' with him.

 

[mcfearless]

I've been following JonBenet's case for about ten years, mostly through reading books but now that I've found WS I'm sucked in all over again.

I'm not 100% sold on BDI...but I don't think it's completely unlikely, either. I think there are semi-valid reasons other than BDI for him to react, as a nine year old boy, like he did (assuming of course that the interview happened as presented).

1. The theory that he has Asperger's Syndrome or something similar: people with Asperger's can sometimes have a difficult time expressing emotions in what we would perceive to be a "normal" manner. If Burke has Asperger's (and I'm not saying he does or does not, but if he does), then regardless of if he did it or not, regardless of how he really feels about his sister being dead, he may have been unable to express that to the interviewer. He may have dismissed the interviewer's questions because he didn't know how to process them, regardless of his innocence or guilt. I know people on other discussion boards dismiss the ASD theory because Burke otherwise seems to be very intelligent, but I think that just shows that people are misinformed about high functioning ASDs in general--you could have an ASD and have a genius-level IQ.

2. The theory (fact? heresay/rumor) that JonBenet had become Patsy's "project" and that she had begun casting off Burke in favour of her obsession with JB: Even if he didn't commit the murder or wasn't involved directly in the murder he may have felt some measure of relief at JB's death--I am in NO WAY saying that it was 'normal' for Burke to feel that way, but there was so little that was 'normal' about the Ramseys at the time of JB's murder. If Patsy had begun ignoring Burke and paying intense attention to JB, which seems likely given some of the "evidence" to back it up like the fact that JB's pageant involvement had intensified, that Patsy began dying her hair blonde presumably because the pageant involvement had intensified...regardless of if BDI or not he may have just felt relieved that she was dead because he thought that it would mean that his mother's obsession with her would die with her. I think that this theory makes me sadder than any other (not that my sadness has anything to do with anything, that's just my own observation) because it would highlight yet another level of the dysfunction going on in that home.

2b. The theory that JR was JB's molester and the possibility that JR molested B as well: If JR was molesting JB, even if he wasn't also molesting B, and B knew about it, he might have also felt relieved that JB was dead. If JR was also molesting B (and I think it's not an invalid possibility based on certain things I've read on the case; particularly the scatological behaviours on the part of B), then he may have had some anger in addition to that relief, which would cause him to act strangely or respond in a manner that seems inappropriate.

3. The theory that even if BDidn'tDI, he witnessed it and was involved and his parents coerced him to cover it up: I think this one speaks for itself; even if he didn't do it, if he witnessed it and was involved indirectly in that way, and then his parents instructed him to cover it up, he may have simply had a hard time covering because he was just a little boy and he processed it by attempting to "eliminate" JB from his life because he didn't know what else to do.

Of course, if BDI, whether by accident (he got angry and hit JB in the head, JB died, he told his parents and instead of dealing with it appropriately they staged the whole thing) or on purpose, it could have caused him to react that way to the interviewer too. I'm just still up in the air as to whether I believe BDI or not, so I thought I'd present some alternative possibilities as well. And, as always, :moo:

 

[Nom de plume]

I've been following JonBenet's case for about ten years, mostly through reading books but now that I've found WS I'm sucked in all over again.

I'm not 100% sold on BDI...but I don't think it's completely unlikely, either. I think there are semi-valid reasons other than BDI for him to react, as a nine year old boy, like he did (assuming of course that the interview happened as presented).

1. The theory that he has Asperger's Syndrome or something similar: people with Asperger's can sometimes have a difficult time expressing emotions in what we would perceive to be a "normal" manner. If Burke has Asperger's (and I'm not saying he does or does not, but if he does), then regardless of if he did it or not, regardless of how he really feels about his sister being dead, he may have been unable to express that to the interviewer. He may have dismissed the interviewer's questions because he didn't know how to process them, regardless of his innocence or guilt. I know people on other discussion boards dismiss the ASD theory because Burke otherwise seems to be very intelligent, but I think that just shows that people are misinformed about high functioning ASDs in general--you could have an ASD and have a genius-level IQ.

2. The theory (fact? heresay/rumor) that JonBenet had become Patsy's "project" and that she had begun casting off Burke in favour of her obsession with JB: Even if he didn't commit the murder or wasn't involved directly in the murder he may have felt some measure of relief at JB's death--I am in NO WAY saying that it was 'normal' for Burke to feel that way, but there was so little that was 'normal' about the Ramseys at the time of JB's murder. If Patsy had begun ignoring Burke and paying intense attention to JB, which seems likely given some of the "evidence" to back it up like the fact that JB's pageant involvement had intensified, that Patsy began dying her hair blonde presumably because the pageant involvement had intensified...regardless of if BDI or not he may have just felt relieved that she was dead because he thought that it would mean that his mother's obsession with her would die with her. I think that this theory makes me sadder than any other (not that my sadness has anything to do with anything, that's just my own observation) because it would highlight yet another level of the dysfunction going on in that home.

2b. The theory that JR was JB's molester and the possibility that JR molested B as well: If JR was molesting JB, even if he wasn't also molesting B, and B knew about it, he might have also felt relieved that JB was dead. If JR was also molesting B (and I think it's not an invalid possibility based on certain things I've read on the case; particularly the scatological behaviours on the part of B), then he may have had some anger in addition to that relief, which would cause him to act strangely or respond in a manner that seems inappropriate.

3. The theory that even if BDidn'tDI, he witnessed it and was involved and his parents coerced him to cover it up: I think this one speaks for itself; even if he didn't do it, if he witnessed it and was involved indirectly in that way, and then his parents instructed him to cover it up, he may have simply had a hard time covering because he was just a little boy and he processed it by attempting to "eliminate" JB from his life because he didn't know what else to do.

Of course, if BDI, whether by accident (he got angry and hit JB in the head, JB died, he told his parents and instead of dealing with it appropriately they staged the whole thing) or on purpose, it could have caused him to react that way to the interviewer too. I'm just still up in the air as to whether I believe BDI or not, so I thought I'd present some alternative possibilities as well. And, as always, :moo:

Welcome mcfearless! :wagon:

You make some great points, all very good possibilities.

 

[DeeDee249]

Welcome mcfearless! :wagon:

You make some great points, all very good possibilities.

Ditto from me!

 

[midwest mama]

:seeya:Hi mcfearless - Welcome and thanks for the post with several options to consider about Burke's possible involvement. Seeing your suggestions makes me wonder, rather than what his interviews did tell us, what more interviews with him WOULD finally tell us!

I also wonder how much pressure BPD could keep putting on him for an interview without his lawyers getting nasty.

And I also wonder if there will ever be a time in Burke's life when his heart and mind become one with a sense of loving conscious obligation to his sister's justice, and he steps forward on his own.lease:

 

[wengr]

And I also wonder if there will ever be a time in Burke's life when his heart and mind become one with a sense of loving conscious obligation to his sister's justice, and he steps forward on his own.lease:

Yes, I wonder about that as well. And I also wonder about the fact that Patsy is long dead and gone, and it has not seemed to change his lack of desire to enlighten us one bit.

 

[SunnieRN]

Great point about no further information coming to light after PR's death. Tells volumes IMHO.

Isn't there a law against obstructing justice and witholding information from LE? I would think the only way around that law would be if you are a spouse and plead the fifth, or if you are indeed guilty, as you are not required to incriminate yourself, under the law.

 

[DeeDee249]

Great point about no further information coming to light after PR's death. Tells volumes IMHO.

Isn't there a law against obstructing justice and witholding information from LE? I would think the only way around that law would be if you are a spouse and plead the fifth, or if you are indeed guilty, as you are not required to incriminate yourself, under the law.

Sure there is a law. But first, you have to have an indictable crime- arrest- trial. Otherwise there is no obstruction. The DA's office was guilty of most of the obstruction in this case.
Remember- in this country no one can be compelled/forced to talk to LE.
Even people KNOWN to be guilty do not have to talk to police. The Miranda rights make this very clear:
"You have the right to remain silent". BR has chosen to exercise that right. And there is nothing police or anyone else can do about it. Will his conscience kick in at some point? Doubtful. Even if he has one.
When there is a Grand Jury, people can be subpoenaed. You face arrest if you ignore the subpoena BUT- you still don't have to say what you know- you can invoke your 5th Amendment right to refuse to answer. However, the exact wording of that is "I refuse to answer on the grounds that it may incriminate me". That word "incriminate" says it all. This is the clearest indication of someone's guilt besides a confession. Stating that revealing the truth about a crime would also reveal your involvement in that crime pretty much is you admitting your are involved in the crime.
BR will not talk. He doesn't have to. He doesn't CARE if the crime is solved- nor does his father. Why? The crime IS solved, as far as they are concerned. They KNOW what happened.
NO one in that family will come forward at this point. Possibly after JRs death, but it won't be BR. The only way I see it is if some other family member or friend comes forward to say what they know about it.

 

[x_files]

The phrase "oohing and aahing over her" is not something I'd expect a boy that age to say. That is adult phraseology.

Children copy parents. I've heard little kids say similar comments.

 

[liz b.]

What's everyone's opinions on this interview? Does anything stand out?
I'll post what I find interesting in my next post so this one doesn't get too long

" Burke also told Dr. B. that he was "getting on with his life " "... this child's sibling had just been brutally killed. This is quite a chilling response moo jmo

 

[liz b.]

Seems that both children had eneurisis and encopresis ? moo jmo In my experience,these conditions can sometimes be seen in kids who are routinely sexually abused. They will wet or poop in their clothes in an attempt to drive their molester away... I don't know...what on earth was going on in that house ? jmo moo

 

[rachaellouise]

Burkes statement of "getting on with his life" is obviously from his parents. JMO

 

[passionflower]

Seems that both children had eneurisis and encopresis ? moo jmo In my experience,these conditions can sometimes be seen in kids who are routinely sexually abused. They will wet or poop in their clothes in an attempt to drive their molester away... I don't know...what on earth was going on in that house ? jmo moo

My 'thanks' button doesn't work............
yes the household was very ODD indeed.....
dirty in fact, when I read books, only the maid cleaned???

 

[liz b.]

Burkes statement of "getting on with his life" is obviously from his parents. JMO

Crossed my mind too...but,wow, the interview with Dr.B.was on January 8th ??
If someone was coaching this child on how they should feel,following the brutal murder of his sister ??? Telling him he should "move on" ?? Did he ever mourn his sister's passing ? What a tragic,and horrific concept...jmo moo