CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #42 *ARREST*

[gitana1]

It was posted on twitter by a reporter who was covering the preliminary hearing. It may also be in news articles.

Well here's the thing: Nowhere in the affidavit does it indicate an Idaho number that PF called pinged near KB's home on 11-22.

Does everyone think LE and the DA just stupidly decided to detail at the prelim, but then ignore, their own evidence that KK was at the house on 11-22? Why would they mention it at all if they weren't going to use it to show KK was there?

It's weird to me that so many here think they've cracked the case using information they think LE and the DA presented in the affidavit and at the prelim, but it just completely went over the actual professionals' heads.

 

[MyBelle]

There was only ONE defendant in the courtroom that day. PF.

But everyone in that courtroom knows there are two defendants who have been charged.

JMO

 

[gitana1]

Let’s just think about this using common sense.

If prosecution witness Slater were to drop the bombshell that KK was in Colorado on the 22nd, the defense would have jumped all over it.

Maybe he said it that way, maybe it was lost in translation, but the context was the location of PF, and his and Kelsey’s phones, after he left the house on the 22nd (after murdering Kelsey).

He contacted KK’s Idaho number, and his route was being tracked.

Yes. Basic common sense. The defense would be screaming that this proved KK was there and could've been the culprit rather than him. They stayed silent as to that.

But the tweet by Sam Kramer was indeed confusing as written. We have to remember these reporters were writing fast.

 

[MassGuy]

But everyone in that courtroom knows there are two defendants who have been charged.

JMO

That court proceeding was about one defendant, PF.

When someone was talking about a “defendant,” that’s who they were referring to in that context.

 

[Seattle1]

The post is a poster's notes from all the tweets from those in the courtroom who heard the testimony first hand. I wasn't there first hand. By all means, please post a link that proves Tippy Lynn's post isn't factual so it can be removed. Thanks.

Can you kindly provide us the post number for your original source that this can be corrected or removed.

I've only seen the subject post as quoted by you, and the only link you've been able to reference here is that it's "Tippy Lynn's post." Respectfully, Tippy Lynn is not a true "source link." TIA.

 

[gitana1]

People always try to blame the mistress. Do you remember the people who blamed NK in the Watts case "as the real killer"? Even more disgusting, there were people (not on Websleuths) who made a disgusting attempt to say SW "did it" or "caused CW to do it" because she was bossy. BLECH...

Oh that was definitely right here on websleuths as well.

 

[MyBelle]

Well here's the thing: Nowhere in the affidavit does it indicate an Idaho number that PF called pinged near KB's home on 11-22.

Does everyone think LE and the DA just stupidly decided to detail at the prelim, but then ignore, their own evidence that KK was at the house on 11-22? Why would they mention it at all if they weren't going to use it to show KK was there?

It's weird to me that so many here think they've cracked the case using information they think LE and the DA presented in the affidavit and at the prelim, but it just completely went over the actual professionals' heads.

Journalists are professionals and it didn't go over their heads. They understand the affidavit was prepared months ago. I doubt cell phone data about pings was available at that time. I don't believe the DA is stupid and I also don't believe the DA would lie. If evidence shows KK was at the house on 11/22 the defense will find out and so will the journalists covering the case. All the DA cares about right now is that the judge agrees there is sufficient evidence PF was involved and should be held without bail.

JMO

 

[justaparent]

I apologize because I have not read all of the threads yet and I’m using voice dictation to write this. I have been suffering from bouts of vertigo, almost constant, that have prevented me from reading everything but I did read one news story. My question is, can KK now be charged with more since she cleaned up the crime scene? That may have already been answered in previous threads and I will eventually make it through them when this vertigo is at bay. They had to of known before hand what she did so I’m assuming that no, there will be no further charges even though there should be in my opinion. It is unreal to me that someone who participated to that extent is getting up so easily. PF is a monster I have the worst kind and a coward. KK is a total monster so I hope it lives the rest of her life in shame and unable to do any type of work. I will always believe that she had a larger role in the killing her then she is admitting to. My opinion only but she is an evil person and I believe would have done anything for him. Please excuse the typos I cannot see very well right now and I’m not going to go back and change them because you can probly understand what I am saying, typos and all.

I certainly hope the DA has another way to charge her even though I don’t believe that will happen. What cowardly people total cowards and monsters. May they both fry in hell.

 

[nwmouse]

To play devils advocate I don’t see any support from LE that evidence was from a blunt force murder. Only from what KK provided. As far as we know LE did not even know a murder took place until they found blood in the bathroom and floorboards. What’s not to say that blood was from a gun shot wound at this point.

Its fairly reasonable to come to the conclusion that KB was beaten to death.

A gun shot would likely not have left a tooth in a vent unless she was shot through the jaw/mouth.

There was probably brain matter that spattered as PF was swinging the bat up and down against her head whilst he beat KB to death. It may have gotten stuck in between floor boards, on walls etc. Even a minute speck in a certain location on the wall/ceiling/floor would be a tell-tale sign of a beating to death rather than a gunshot wound.

The blood spatter/brain spatter would be a different pattern if it was a gun shot that killed her.

Forensics did a pretty thorough job of searching the room for evidence of spatter that was left behind, even though KK / PF did their clean-up job.

KK stated that PF beat KB to death and that baby Kaylee was in another room.
Why would KK lie? Why would she jeopardize her sweet deal with LE to testify against PF because they would be able to find out if she WAS lying? She squealed to save her own hide from possible LWOP.

I think at this stage it would be reasonable to believe KK -- that KB was beaten to death by PF with a baseball bat. Probably the forensics will prove it.

MOO

 

[MassGuy]

I apologize because I have not read all of the threads yet and I’m using voice dictation to write this. I have been suffering from bouts of vertigo, almost constant, that have prevented me from reading everything but I did read one news story. My question is, can KK now be charged with more since she cleaned up the crime scene? That may have already been answered in previous threads and I will eventually make it through them when this vertigo is at bay. They had to of known before hand what she did so I’m assuming that no, there will be no further charges even though there should be in my opinion. It is unreal to me that someone who participated to that extent is getting up so easily. PF is a monster I have the worst kind and a coward. KK is a total monster so I hope it lives the rest of her life in shame and unable to do any type of work. I will always believe that she had a larger role in the killing her then she is admitting to. My opinion only but she is an evil person and I believe would have done anything for him. Please excuse the typos I cannot see very well right now and I’m not going to go back and change them because you can probly understand what I am saying, typos and all.

I certainly hope the DA has another way to charge her even though I don’t believe that will happen. What cowardly people total cowards and monsters. May they both fry in hell.

The only way she can be charged with more, is if she breaks the terms of her deal.

If she lied to the prosecution, the deal can be thrown out.

Other than that, she will serve a punishment that does not match the seriousness of her crimes.

Her testimony will go a long way towards bringing down PF though.

 

[gitana1]

Witness reveals how Patrick Frazee allegedly killed Kelsey Berreth, disposed of her body
Slater testified that Kenney was not present during Berreth's murder, but arrived in Colorado on November 24 to clean up the crime scene. She described the scene inside Berreth's home as "horrific."

Details of alleged gruesome bloody cleanup revealed in case against fiancé accused of killing Kelsey Berreth
Lee said Frazee called her on Nov. 22 and told her to get to Colorado to clean up, Slater said. Lee arrived on Nov. 24 with rubber gloves, a hospital gown, bleach, trash bags and booties, Slater testified.

Patrick Frazee going to trial in Kelsey Berreth murder case (UPDATE: Arrest affidavit inside article)
Kenney states she received a call from Frazee on Nov. 22. Frazee allegedly said, "You got to get here now. You got a mess to clean up." On Nov. 24 Kenney claims she was on her way to Colorado with a clean-up kit.

Affidavit details events leading up to Berreth’s death
On Nov. 22 around 4:30 p.m., while she was in Idaho, Kenney received a text from Frazee: “You need to get here now. You’ve got a mess to clean up.”

She told authorities that when she received that text, she “understood that as Berreth had been killed,” according to the affidavit.

While Kenney wasn’t present for the alleged murder, she said Frazee described it in detail.

Apparently to some, LE presented their own evidence that KK was there in CO on 11-22, via burner phone pings, but they're so stupid they overlooked that. And so did the judge and defense. So inexplicably they made a big deal of it "Referencing the Idaho number [which] belonged to KK, state asks if PF contacting that number became important, knowing that was near the last ping of KB’s phone. Slater said yes, then they tried contacting her."

But then after making that reference, for some odd reason, they then conclude that KK was not there during the murder, was called by PF to come down to CO to clean up the scene and did so, arriving on 11-24?

This is making no sense people.

 

[gitana1]

I agree. It was the Berreths who discovered the blood and there is compelling evidence from security video. I have no doubt a Judge would have found probable cause without KK's testimony.

JMO

Really?

 

[SandyQLS]

Well here's the thing: Nowhere in the affidavit does it indicate an Idaho number that PF called pinged near KB's home on 11-22.

Does everyone think LE and the DA just stupidly decided to detail at the prelim, but then ignore, their own evidence that KK was at the house on 11-22? Why would they mention it at all if they weren't going to use it to show KK was there?

It's weird to me that so many here think they've cracked the case using information they think LE and the DA presented in the affidavit and at the prelim, but it just completely went over the actual professionals' heads.

KK's phone could be in Idaho, but what about KK?

Per AW item #52, MG met KK to exchange vehicles on 11/23 in Idaho. KK left Idaho on 11/23 at 6:30PM arriving in WP 7:30AM on 11/24.

It doesn't seem reasonable that KK or her phone were in COLORADO (ETA change state) on 11/22. But then who is "a defendant" ?

Sam Kraemer on Twitter
May says she knows about a defendant showing up to her house on Thanksgiving. I’m assuming that’s Kenney, since Patrick lives with her.

 

[v0x]

Apparently to some, LE presented their own evidence that KK was there in CO on 11-22, via burner phone pings, but they're so stupid they overlooked that. And so did the judge and defense. So inexplicably they made a big deal of it "Referencing the Idaho number [which] belonged to KK, state asks if PF contacting that number became important, knowing that was near the last ping of KB’s phone. Slater said yes, then they tried contacting her."

But then after making that reference, for some odd reason, they then conclude that KK was not there during the murder, was called by PF to come down to CO to clean up the scene and did so, arriving on 11-24?

This is making no sense people.

PSA: there’s an ignore link on this site I’m coming close to using it. Lol

 

[katydid23]

The post is a poster's notes from all the tweets from those in the courtroom who heard the testimony first hand. I wasn't there first hand. By all means, please post a link that proves Tippy Lynn's post isn't factual so it can be removed. Thanks.

Her post does not need to be 'removed.' She did a lot of hard work, took a lot of time and effort.

It is just ONE SENTENCE that needs to be corrected.

 

[gitana1]

The post is a poster's notes from all the tweets from those in the courtroom who heard the testimony first hand. I wasn't there first hand. By all means, please post a link that proves Tippy Lynn's post isn't factual so it can be removed. Thanks.

I did. We all did. Slater clearly testified that KK was not present on 11-22, was contacted by PF to come down and clean up a mess and arrived in CO on 11-24. Pommy Mommy provided links to all the news articles evidencing this in the post linked here:

CO - CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #42 *ARREST*

 

[gitana1]

Then contact a mod and correct it.

We don't need to. The timeline is great. You're interpreting a couple sentences incorrectly. The testimony shows that KK was not in CO on the day of the murders and arrived on the 24th. It's that simple.

 

[gitana1]

Journalists are professionals and it didn't go over their heads. They understand the affidavit was prepared months ago. I doubt cell phone data about pings was available at that time. I don't believe the DA is stupid and I also don't believe the DA would lie. If evidence shows KK was at the house on 11/22 the defense will find out and so will the journalists covering the case. All the DA cares about right now is that the judge agrees there is sufficient evidence PF was involved and should be held without bail.

JMO

The DA elicited testimony from CBI agent Slater that KK was not present on 11-22 and arrived on 11-24.

You are pointing to statements you believe the DA brought out via testimony showing that KK's ID burner phone pinged near KB's home on 11-22, and that this was significant. And yet the defense hasn't found this out yet? (Even though they were at the prelim). And the DA didn't care about it and contradicted it totally with statements by the same witness (CBI agent Slater)? How does that make sense?

Why on earth would they elicit testimony indicating someone else was at that house on the day of the murder at a probable cause hearing for PF? That's not the way the law works. That would be what is called possible exculpatory evidence and no prosecutor would present exculpatory evidence at the prelim when trying to convince a judge there's probable cause that a particular party committed murder.

Once again, the same witness testified clearly that KK was not there the day of the murders and arrived on 11-24. It c ant get any clearer.

 

[gitana1]

KK's phone could be in Idaho, but what about KK?

Per AW item #52, MG met KK to exchange vehicles on 11/23 in Idaho. KK left Idaho on 11/23 at 6:30PM arriving in WP 7:30AM on 11/24.

It doesn't seem reasonable that KK or her phone were in COLORADO (ETA change state) on 11/22. But then who is "a defendant" ?

Sam Kraemer on Twitter
May says she knows about a defendant showing up to her house on Thanksgiving. I’m assuming that’s Kenney, since Patrick lives with her.

This was at the beginning of the hearing before it was clearly testified to that KK was not in CO until 11-24.

So the wording made the reporter assume it was KK.

In fact, PF showed up at her home on Thanksgiving. Once again, why on earth would the DA try to elicit testimony from her about another defendant being present on CO on the day of the murders, at PF's probable cause hearing?

Ya'll. We need to use common sense. The DA isn't stupid. They prepare carefully. They wouldn't try to use the probable cause hearing to get in evidence that another possible culprit was there and thus could've been the murderer instead of the guy they're trying to bind over for trial, at that probable cause hearing.

Obviously they were trying to get SF to testify as to when PF arrived at her home on Thanksgiving.

 

[nwmouse]

@gitana1 : Ma F pleaded The Fifth when called to testify. In your opinion is it because she didn't want to testify about the time her son PF arrived for TG, or because Ma F was aware that there was a body being burned and that it was KB's remains?

AFAIK there isn't a parent-child evidentiary privilege, is there?

Doesn't Ma F pleading The Fifth mean that she didn't want to incriminate herself?

moo