MO - Elizabeth Olten, 9, St Martin's, 21 Oct 2009 #10

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gliving said:
Yes, but we have the 6pm phone call to/from her mom. I've always wondered about the bus drop off too.
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But did that phone call really happen tho as there has been different stories about that ie was it a phone call or was it a text? If it was a text its a totally different situation.
 
Isabella said:
But did that phone call really happen tho as there has been different stories about that ie was it a phone call or was it a text? If it was a text its a totally different situation.
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This is one of many questions remaining about this case that hopefully will now start to come out. Actually you reminded me of a question I had: since a grand jury handed down the charges, precluding the publication of evidence leading to those charges... when can we expect to start seeing more documents relating to the crime and the charges?
 
Hi mayfair, yes, there was a report where Richardson said he could not answer whether EO had been found in "only one of" the graves AB dug. We are thinking this was an editorial error and do not want to start any off-track rumors for sure! More likely that the quote should have been "in one of the" graves and if it turns out differently, we will all have this thread bookmarked for future reference.
 
:eek:fftopic:

Nancy Grace coverage on Elizabeth are uploading now and should be available within the hour. Click on the link in my siggie to watch the videos.
 
Intensive In-Home Therapy in Missouri-

Kids must meet certain criteria to qualify (which Alyssa did & she received this service). In 2008, 126 children(n 49 families, so some families with more than one child receiving IIHT) in her county qualified for IIHT.

Overview of the program:
"Missouri families in crisis can receive help from Intensive In-home Services (IIS) when faced with the
removal of a child or children from their home. Removal of children is sometimes necessary due to problems
such as child abuse and neglect, family violence, drug dependency, delinquency, or other crisis circumstances.
IIS offers intensive, short-term, home-based, crisis intervention services with the goal of keeping families safely
together whenever possible. IIS services are flexible and can be provided any time based on the family's needs.
Trained primary specialists from either the Children's Division or contracted vendors help families with skillbased
interventions such as individual and family counseling, parenting education, child development training,
household maintenance education, nutritional training, job readiness training, as well as other coummunity
resources."

Lots more info here about the ways they qualify:
http://www.dss.mo.gov/re/pdf/iis/iis08.pdf
 
ynotdivein said:
This is one of many questions remaining about this case that hopefully will now start to come out. Actually you reminded me of a question I had: since a grand jury handed down the charges, precluding the publication of evidence leading to those charges... when can we expect to start seeing more documents relating to the crime and the charges?
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Not until trial - Missouri does not have the so called Sunshine law.
 
Child murderers really bother me. What happened to make this girl want to murder another child? What happened during her formative years? Was she born with some mental defect that predisposed her to commit premeditated murder? Did she suffer abuse or some trauma that caused her to want to harm others? Do any of those things even have anything to do with it? Obviously she, and others who commit the same crimes, know right from wrong, as they go to great lengths to conceal their crimes, but, what drives them? I cannot wrap my head around this one and I simply cannot accept her reason, that she wanted to know what it felt like, for killing Elizabeth. One thing I do know is that this is one sick girl and I hope that she never, ever is released back into society.
 
I haven't read through all the threads yet, but I was wondering if the suspect has any possible connections to the "horrorcore" music scene, or whether she and/or her friends or associates are involved in occult or satanic activity. Just wondering about her background...
 
Capri, thanks for the link. I am most interested in page 15, "Prior Agencies Contact." AB could fall into one or several of those categories, IMO.

And thank you raisincharlie for the Sunshine Law info too.
 
New rumors from JCHS. My nephew tells me that Alyssa was bragging in the weeks before the murder, that she wasn't taking her meds. Isn't it true that you can't just stop taking stuff like Prozac without sometimes serious affects? That's what they say in all the drug ad disclaimers I've heard on TV. Anyway, I was thinking maybe, if this is true, and if they got her back on her meds at Prenger, maybe that's why she looked and acted so sedate, so, I don't know, just bland, today?

I'd think that, with her family history of drug abuse, they'd be very careful about what they prescribed for her. I remember someone saying that she was born addicted. Seems like that would make them think twice before using drug therapy at all. IMHO, they jump to chemicals way too quickly these days, altho I agree that in some cases, they do wonders, allowing people to lead normal lives. In some cases, psych drugs are the answer, but maybe not in all cases.
 
JoeFromLB said:
I haven't read through all the threads yet, but I was wondering if the suspect has any possible connections to the "horrorcore" music scene, or whether she and/or her friends or associates are involved in occult or satanic activity. Just wondering about her background...
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Joe, keep reading. There have been speculations that she was into Insane Clown Posse, but she seems to have been a chameleon, a good student who presented as "scene" and who also went to prayer study with classmates who are now horrified to have been supportive of her. No easy answers here.
 
W8nC said:
New rumors from JCHS. My nephew tells me that Alyssa was bragging in the weeks before the murder, that she wasn't taking her meds. Isn't it true that you can't just stop taking stuff like Prozac without sometimes serious affects? That's what they say in all the drug ad disclaimers I've heard on TV. Anyway, I was thinking maybe, if this is true, and if they got her back on her meds at Prenger, maybe that's why she looked and acted so sedate, so, I don't know, just bland, today?

I'd think that, with her family history of drug abuse, they'd be very careful about what they prescribed for her. I remember someone saying that she was born addicted. Seems like that would make them think twice before using drug therapy at all. IMHO, they jump to chemicals way too quickly these days, altho I agree that in some cases, they do wonders, allowing people to lead normal lives. In some cases, psych drugs are the answer, but maybe not in all cases.
Click to expand...

Suddenly quitting Prozac and other medication like it can cause withdrawal symptoms that can be very uncomfortable. I would assume that it can affect your mood as well. Generally speaking, Prozac does not cause sedation as a tranquilizer would. Maybe they have her on different meds?
 
PastorJerry said:
Suddenly quitting Prozac and other medication like it can cause withdrawal symptoms that can be very uncomfortable. I would assume that it can affect your mood as well. Generally speaking, Prozac does not cause sedation as a tranquilizer would. Maybe they have her on different meds?
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Thanks, PastorJerry! I can barely tolerate asprin, so have just about zero knowledge in regard to all these medications. Can't even keep them all straight....I once confused zoloft with zantac in a conversation.....duhhhh. This forum has a ton of bright people, thank God. :dance:
 
PastorJerry said:
Child murderers really bother me. What happened to make this girl want to murder another child? What happened during her formative years? Was she born with some mental defect that predisposed her to commit premeditated murder? Did she suffer abuse or some trauma that caused her to want to harm others? Do any of those things even have anything to do with it? Obviously she, and others who commit the same crimes, know right from wrong, as they go to great lengths to conceal their crimes, but, what drives them? I cannot wrap my head around this one and I simply cannot accept her reason, that she wanted to know what it felt like, for killing Elizabeth. One thing I do know is that this is one sick girl and I hope that she never, ever is released back into society.
Click to expand...

There has been speculation that perhaps she suffers from Reactive Attachment Disorder as the result of neglect by her mother during her earliest formative years. People who've known her claim to be aware of some terrible stories of her years with her mother.

I think that when she is described as killing Elizabeth because she "wanted to know how it feels" that perhaps the truer statement is because she "wanted to feel something." JMO
 
W8nC said:
Isn't it true that you can't just stop taking stuff like Prozac without sometimes serious affects? That's what they say in all the drug ad disclaimers I've heard on TV. Anyway, I was thinking maybe, if this is true, and if they got her back on her meds at Prenger, maybe that's why she looked and acted so sedate, so, I don't know, just bland, today?
Click to expand...

First, I agree that she is likely sedated right now. In my past dealings with troubled teens this is exactly the process and exactly the affect you would have to expect as a result.

Second, you can't be prescribed Prozac without innumerable disclaimers. Its use on teens is already questionable. Stopping taking it, while perhaps using other drugs to numb your pain, well... still not an excuse for what happened. She planned and perpetrated a horrible thing. She is old enough and has been through enough therapy to know that all she had to do was tell a trusted person that she was having bad thoughts (as a previous poster mentioned, TY). Suddenly stopping taking her meds may have precipitated a crisis, but in the end, who can be blamed for that?
 
Elley Mae said:
WOW, just WOW, she looks so dang scary in the mug shot!
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She sure does! She looks like she's had a complete mental breakdown, compared to the relatively cute girl on her MySpace photo... She looks mentally ravished in this mug shot pic from today.
 
Dal Gal said:
There has been speculation that perhaps she suffers from Reactive Attachment Disorder as the result of neglect by her mother during her earliest formative years. People who've known her claim to be aware of some terrible stories of her years with her mother.

I think that when she is described as killing Elizabeth because she "wanted to know how it feels" that perhaps the truer statement is because she "wanted to feel something." JMO
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Very interesting reading Dal Gal and thank you for the link. :)
 
W8nC said:
New rumors from JCHS. My nephew tells me that Alyssa was bragging in the weeks before the murder, that she wasn't taking her meds. Isn't it true that you can't just stop taking stuff like Prozac without sometimes serious affects?
Click to expand...

Yes, I've heard the same thing about Zanex. My SIL quite cold turkey and had a seizure in a grocery store and an ambulance had to be called. She fell straight down and hit her head on the hard cement floor. It's pretty scary when you think about it...
 
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