MO - Elizabeth Olten, 9, St Martin's, 21 Oct 2009 #10

[W8nC]

...or maybe they knew a neighborhood kid was missing and Alyssa showed up in bloody clothes......

...or maybe they didn't even know Elizabeth was missing because they were on their way to St Louis when that news broke.....

...or maybe KRCG just got that part of the story wrong?

arghhhhh!!!!! I'm getting sleepy, goofy (and at least a couple of other dwarfs, lol)....better get off here and get some sleep.

Thank you, all WSers, for keeping me company tonight, making me think, and teaching me a few things. I appreciate you all. G'night!!

 

[Dal Gal]

So did the grandparents know that night what she did I wonder?

One message board rumor among locals is that the GF saw her when she returned to the house and saw the blood on her. I dismissed it though, as I only saw it posted once (not on WS).

 

[CementPond]

Yeah I definitely would like to know how she came home looking after committing such an act. Like I said once before, she had to of come in bloody, dirty, sweaty, excited, nervous, something!!!! And when she did, did anyone see her, I wonder?

So much we still don't know.

...or maybe they knew a neighborhood kid was missing and Alyssa showed up in bloody clothes......

...or maybe they didn't even know Elizabeth was missing because they were on their way to St Louis when that news broke.....

...or maybe KRCG just got that part of the story wrong?

arghhhhh!!!!! I'm getting sleepy, goofy (and at least a couple of other dwarfs, lol)....better get off here and get some sleep.

Thank you, all WSers, for keeping me company tonight, making me think, and teaching me a few things. I appreciate you all. G'night!!

 

[MDATCA]

If you could ask Alyssa one question what would it be?

How do you think she would answer?

My question would be, How does it feel to kill someone?

I don't want to go where I think her twisted minds answer would be. I would hope it would be awful. It is the worse feeling in the world. Somehow I doubt she feels that way. She may say that eventually but only because that is what she is supposed to say. IMO the only remorse she has is the loss of her freedom.

 

[Gray]

Considering that she's spent the night in the woods on more than one occasion, I wonder if she stashed some clean clothes somewhere and left her bloody clothes out there?

 

[vjlaw]

Considering that she's spent the night in the woods on more than one occasion, I wonder if she stashed some clean clothes somewhere and left her bloody clothes out there?

Or buried in the other grave?

 

[Dal Gal]

If you could ask Alyssa one question what would it be?

How do you think she would answer?

Q: Do you feel something NOW?

A: Huh?

 

[Raebie]

My question would be "How does it feel to know you will never drive a car, go out to eat, get married, have sex, have babies, walk on a beach, etcectect, and die very much alone in an 8x8 cell? Was it worth it?"

 

[Prof]

Alyssa's mother had her when she was 15 years old; Alyssa was born addicted? This is the first I have heard of this-- did I miss that information? Can someone point me that way?

I have to say that I find it sadly ironic that while AB's mother at 15 brought a "life" on this planet, AB took at 15 took a life away

I also find it very sad that Elizabeth came from a place that did not have the "advantages" that AB had (in material assets anyway) Elizabeth's family do not have a big house on a hill, horses, pool, --Elizabeth has both a father and a brother in jail, and who knows what other disadvantages Elizabeth came from, while AB seemed to have all the "toys" (her own cell, a video camera, hours of computer access), plus all of the "help" she needed, gps with strong enough interest to move to MO and gain custody in MO courts--

So, it is extremely difficult to feel sorry for AB because of her disadvantaged background

Still, I do see AB as part of the tragedy, as a child is a child and not a monster in my eyes

 

[vjlaw]

Alyssa's mother had her when she was 15 years old; Alyssa was born addicted? This is the first I have heard of this-- did I miss that information? Can someone point me that way?

I have to say that I find it sadly ironic that while AB's mother at 15 brought a "life" on this planet, AB took at 15 took a life away

I also find it very sad that Elizabeth came from a place that did not have the "advantages" that AB had (in material assets anyway) Elizabeth's family do not have a big house on a hill, horses, pool, --Elizabeth has both a father and a brother in jail, and who knows what other disadvantages Elizabeth came from, while AB seemed to have all the "toys" (her own cell, a video camera, hours of computer access), plus all of the "help" she needed, gps with strong enough interest to move to MO and gain custody in MO courts--

So, it is extremely difficult to feel sorry for AB because of her disadvantaged background

Still, I do see AB as part of the tragedy, as a child is a child and not a monster in my eyes

Both are tragedies. There just are no words that seem to fit.

 

[Raebie]

I don't feel sorry for her or the punishment she's going to face. With that said, it is possible to break a child early in life to the point she can't be fixed no matter how hard you try.

 

[athy]

i feel sorry for ab's sister the friend of elizabeth. can you imagine how that little girl must feel knowing her sister killed her friend because her friend was there and available?

 

[Angel Who Cares]

Who is Alyssa Bustamante?
Family history, troubled teen shows where Bustamante came from
Wednesday, November 18, 2009 at 7:05 p.m.
Last updated: 30 minutes ago
<snipped>
Several of Alyssa's Facebook friends. They tell us they are stunned their fun-loving friend is an accused murderer.

They say Alyssa has lived a hard life.

ALYSSA'S BACKGROUND
Her grandmother was named her legal guardian back in 2002 in the State of California.

TROUBLED TEEN
Her You Tube page lists her hobbies as "killing people and cutting."

In fact, juvenile court says they have had to trim her fingernails because she was using them to cut-up her arms.

BIOLOGICAL PARENTS
Juvenile officials say Alyssa has maintained a relationship with both her mother and father.

Her mother Michelle Bustamante has a history of drug and alcohol charges and her father Ceasar Bustamante is serving several more years in a Missouri prison on assault charges.

Photos: Who is Alyssa Bustamante? 1-6
http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/photos.aspx?id=379234

Article:
http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=379234
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
School officials discuss Bustamante
Wednesday, November 18, 2009 at 6:28 p.m.
<snipped>
Luther did say that things around both schools seemed to be getting back to normal.

"Classes have been fine,&#8221; said Luther. &#8220;Student behavior's been great.&#8221;

But getting back to normal won't happen overnight.

Article:
http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=379226
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
UPDATED: Bustamante certified, indicted, arraigned
Wednesday, November 18, 2009 at 5:55 p.m.
<snipped>
Because the case went to the grand jury, there is no probable cause statement for a preliminary hearing. Such documents generally provide significant details of the crime.

Valentine was appointed to defend Bustamante in juvenile court. After her case was moved to adult court, Valentine was released as her counsel.

Judge Joyce entered a not guilty plea for Bustamante and scheduled another hearing for Dec. 7.

At that time, Bustamante likely will be represented by the public defender and the status of the case will be reviewed for trial scheduling.

PDF: Indictment Documents
http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/u...ies/Alyssa Bustamante indictment 11-18-09.pdf

PDF: Prosecutors Media Order
http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/u...ng during Bustamante arraignment 11-18-09.pdf

PDF: Prosecutors News Release
http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/u...e County prosecutor news release 11-18-09.pdf

Article:
http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=379212
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
*NOTE: Much more NEW info at link!

A Look into Alyssa Bustamante's Past
ABC 17 News interviews friends, hears court testimony and uncovers social networking sites showing past.
Wed Nov 18, 2009
Last updated 8 min ago
<snipped>
Kim says in eighth or ninth grade, she started noticing Alyssa change, becoming more destructive.

A similar claim was echoed in the courtroom Wednesday.

A witness said when Alyssa was in eighth grade, she tried to kill herself by cutting her wrists.

Something Kim knew about.

"One night, I was staying at her house and she came out and she said she liked the feeling of blood on her hands when she cut her wrists because she said it made her feel better," says Kim.

Alyssa spent ten days at the Mid-Missouri Mental Health Center in Columbia for the suicide attempt.

Article:
http://www.abc17news.com/news/story.php?id=15503
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Town Reacts to Alleged Killer&#8217;s Day in Court
Residents of St. Martins speak out about Alyssa Bustamante&#8217;s day in court.
Posted by Kristie Reeter on Wed Nov 18, 2009
Last updated 9 min ago
<snipped>
The feelings were the same for every resident, wanting to find the nine- year-old girl missing from their community, but now that the alleged killer has been certified as an adult, there are mixed feelings throughout the town.

Some feel that Bustamante is just too young to be tried as an adult

Still they understand that what she's being accused of changes things, because it is so horrific.

Article:
http://www.abc17news.com/news/story.php?id=15504
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Teen Will Be Tried As An Adult in Olten Murder
Wednesday, Nov 18th @ 9:41pm CST
<snipped>
Court documents said that Bustamante allegedly strangled, stabbed and cut Olten's throat.

"I hope the public remembers Elizabeth for who she was and my thoughts go out to her family. This is an exceptionally difficult case for everyone I'm sure," said Cole County Juvenile Attorney Samantha Green.

Bustamante could face life in prison without parole if convicted.

Video: Teen Will Be Tried As An Adult in Olten Murder
A judge has entered a not-guilty plea on behalf of a 15-year-old-girl charged with killing 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten.
http://ozarksfirst.com/content/video/?watch=1&cid=207481

Article:
http://ozarksfirst.com/content/fulltext/?cid=207481
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Police: Teen Killed to See What It 'Felt Like'
[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiQeHnaKwlI"]YouTube- Broadcast Yourself.[/nomedia]


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
*NOTE: More at link!

What happened when? Bustamante's timeline
A timeline of events leading up to Elizabeth's murder
Wednesday, November 18, 2009 at 10:39 p.m.
<snipped>
Friday Oct. 16 was parent-teacher conferences and Alyssa Bustamante had a day off from school. It was on this day that highway patrol says she dug two graves in the woods behind her home.

Bustamante was familiar with the property behind her house, according to court testimony. She even got in trouble twice for spending the night in the woods.

Wednesday Oct. 21
Around 6:15 p.m., Elizabeth was supposed to come home. Family members told reporters that after she left someone called her cell phone telling her to come back to Bustamante's house.

Later that night, courtroom testimony revealed Bustmante's family drove her to St. Louis and checked her into a psychiatric hospital.

Article:
http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=379297
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fifteen Year Old To Be Tried As Adult in Murder of Elizabeth Olten
November 18, 2009
<snipped>
In court Wednesday prosecutors said Bustamante told investigators she, "wanted to see what it feld like to kill someone." In the same hearing, a Highway Patrol officer testified that the 15 year old admitted digging two holes with the intention of burying Elizabeth. Juvenile officers called it a sign the girl's murder by stabbing and strangulation was premeditated.

Video: Fifteen Year Old To Be Tried As Adult in Murder of Child 2:30
http://www.fox2now.com/videobeta/watch/?watch=c8a89ed5-e3a2-4852-8a9a-cdf705308a2f&src=front

Video: Fifteen Year Old Charged as Adult in Little Girl's Murder 1:38
http://www.fox2now.com/news/ktvi-elizabeth-olten-murder-suspect-111809-video,0,4972964.tivideo

Article:
http://www.fox2now.com/news/ktvi-elizabeth-olten-murder-suspect-111809,0,4511840.story

:angel:

 

[MDATCA]

The only good AB could do now is to be real, honest and open so that we(society) can learn from her. If not now then maybe in a few years when she has "matured".

 

[vjlaw]

i feel sorry for ab's sister the friend of elizabeth. can you imagine how that little girl must feel knowing her sister killed her friend because her friend was there and available?

I wonder how someone figures out how to tell the siblings something like this. Hopefully they had lots of help from their church and child psychologist.

 

[Prof]

Quote:
Originally Posted by MDATCA
"If you could ask Alyssa one question what would it be?

How do you think she would answer? "

Prof:
I suppose I'd ask Alyssa if this was her first kill;
She might answer "f___ no" with a giggle

(she seems to want attention as much as she wants to feel)

I have wondered about her past "experience" --after all, she bragged about killing people as a hobby before she murdered Elizabeth -- she also was pretty excited about new kittens in her house and there was that poster a while back who asked about that poor woman in the area who was killed when her house blew up --the cause was an intentionally set fire

Speculation: Perhaps AB has been caught coming home with blood on her hands before? Maybe her gps thought AB had killed another animal when she came home Wednesday night?

 

[Dal Gal]

The only good AB could do now is to be real, honest and open so that we(society) can learn from her. If not now then maybe in a few years when she has "matured".

Society DOES need to learn from this. I've always hated when criminals are killed by their own hand or another -- because they NEED to be researched. Consider it a donated organ before death.

On that note, I'm going nighty to watch something light on TV...trust me, you never want to go to bed with ugliness being your last thoughts. Sleep well, my fellow WS'ers, Alyssa's family & friends, and especially to Elizabeth's family.

 

[vjlaw]

Society DOES need to learn from this. I've always hated when criminals are killed by their own hand or another -- because they NEED to be researched. Consider it a donated organ before death.

On that note, I'm going nighty to watch something light on TV...trust me, you never want to go to bed with ugliness being your last thoughts. Sleep well, my fellow WS'ers, Alyssa's family & friends, and especially to Elizabeth's family.

Thanks and you sleep well also.

 

[LovinTK]

First of all I just want to say that my heart goes out to little Elizabeth's family. What happened is just all around awful. I have a daughter close to the same age and I cannot even begin to imagine the pain that her family must be going through. I hope someday they can begin to heal and find peace.

I've been watching this on the news since it happened but I haven't read many of the posts here until tonight. I saw a couple of people mention that Alyssa had recently went off of her meds (Prozac IIRC) or at least she'd told some friends that. IMO while I know that coming off of a drug like Prozac can cause a person to become moody I don't believe it would cause a person to murder someone. I have a couple of family members who have taken that medication in particular although one of them eventually switched to Zoloft. I have seen first hand the effect of someone on that med not taking it and I really don't believe it would cause someone to commit murder. Let's pretend for a second that I'm wrong, that coming off of that medication could potentially make a person fly into a violent rage. I'm not saying that's true but I'm saying even if it was true do you really think that it would cause someone to go out into the woods, dig a couple of graves, and then wait for days to murder someone? Personally I REALLY don't believe that. I don't think any of this can be blamed on that girl not taking her Prozac.

As far as this girl cutting herself I think it's a desperate cry for attention. She must know that using her fingernails isn't going to kill her and if she had wanted to commit suicide by cutting she would have either done it or she'd have some very serious scars.

What I'd like to know is why nobody noticed the things she was doing or saying. Did nobody know that she had that disturbing video on youtube? Did nobody know that she wrote such disturbing things on those social networking websites? She was obviously in need of more mental health care than she was receiving. Don't get me wrong, I'm not making excuses for this girl as I believe she knew right from wrong from everything I've read so far but did nobody notice this girls cries for help? Sadly for little Elizabeth it's too late but this should be a warning for anyone who cares for a child to know what they're doing online, who their friends are, and what they're up to.

I'm sorry for such a lengthy post. This is all just my opinion of course. My heart goes out to the family of precious little Elizabeth.

 

[babydust2004]

This whole situation is sad and has destroyed so many people my heart and thoughts go out to them.My son and his girlfriend live in Holts Summit,MO and she knows some of AB's friends.One of those friends told her that AB had tried to get her to go into the woods with her but I have no idea of the timeframe for that could have been last year for all I know.Has anyone else heard that the boyfriend disappeared around the time this happened and has not been found yet?That is what my son's girlfriend has heard from several sources.I have not read that anywhere and so have no proof one way or the other but was just curious if anyone else had come upon this info.