4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #81

[al66pine]

Body Language Expert Compares BK to Harvey Lee Oswald.

....
Body language expert weighs in: Accused Idaho killer Bryan Kohberger’s body language compared to Lee Harvey Oswald...

Snipped for focus. @Balthazar Thanks for your post w links.

From middle story re BK's demeanor in court "... but otherwise showed a level of calm most comparable to infamous assassin Lee Harvey Oswald, body language experts told The Post."

Article states body language expert and "best-selling author [Janine] Brown compared Kohberger’s relative lack of stress signs to Lee Harvey Oswald."

Calm like Lee Harvey Oswald at his arraignment? As shown by what video recording in courtroom? None [eta: imo]. As witnessed and reported by whom 60 yrs ago?*

IDK, maybe HLO was calm.

_______________________
W quick searches, did not find much detail re HLO's arraignment. Affidavit has only SEVEN LINES of TEXT, a combo of handwritten & preprinted form re homicide of John F. Kennedy (no mention of POTUS status).
Affidavit: Chapter 5.
Cover for affidavit: History Matters Archive - Warren Commission Hearings, Volume XX, pg

Lee Harvey Oswald - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Since the PCA was published about the DNA on the knife sheath, I've hypothesized since it was such a small amount found on the snap (but enough to match to BK's father then, and now presumably him, since LE has collected his DNA since his arrest and has a clear 'profile' of it), that it got there "somewhat inadvertently".

For example, he kept the sheath plastic wrapped as it came (from when he purchased or acquired it, or maybe cleaned it with bleach ahead of time and rewrapped it) and untouched until that night.

Then he unwrapped the "clean" sheath that night wearing gloves, of course, and there was the tiniest bit of his DNA on the gloves he wore that got on it when he unwrapped it and held it briefly before it was dropped on or placed on the bed next to and/or under Maddie, or similar-like.

Or he could have breathed or sweated on it or gotten a small amount of his DNA on it when drawing it from his pocket, thinking the clothing he wore and had stored it in was "clean".

However, in order to maintain a truly "100% clean" surface on an unwrapped object within an enclosed area that is free of any particles that could land on it through the surrounding air settling on it (or through touch as described above) -- including dust and fumes in general, and respiratory gasses, hairs, bodily fluids (that contain DNA), etc., -- that can all be traced back to their source through forensic/analytical testing...

You have to have a reverse air flow (vacuum) sucking all the air out of a plastic covered "clean room" with the person operating within it in a full body suit with self-contained breathing apparatus (the kind that has a tank with a continuous flow of oxygen), which is bulky and noisy, and, well, no way he was wearing something like that, IMO.

That type of "clean room" environment was impossible under the circumstances with BK (allegedly) entering a normal household and Maddie's bedroom, exerting himself during the killings, and leaving the knife sheath on her bed. Even through a well fitted mask or "breather" there is an output of respiratory gasses from your lungs and mucous membranes on a microscopic level into the airspace around you.

And "clean rooms" are extremely difficult to achieve: Clean Room Classifications & ISO Standards | American Cleanrooms Systems

Not being able to achieve "clean room" status while committing the murders, is perhaps why BK (allegedly) was careful not to leave his touch DNA in public places (grocery shopping with latex gloves after the murders).

Because he knew this >> there was a high probability that his DNA got on the sheath that he had to touch to leave it on the bed even if he was careful and wore new gloves and new clothing, or he respirated or perspired on it (and of course, IMO, the murder weapon, which he took with him, so it's a moot point, unless it's found by some miracle).

MOO

 

[Cindizzi]

Body Language Expert Compares BK to Harvey Lee Oswald.
Snipped for focus. @Balthazar Thanks for your post w links.

From middle story re BK's demeanor in court "... but otherwise showed a level of calm most comparable to infamous assassin Lee Harvey Oswald, body language experts told The Post."

Article states body language expert and "best-selling author [Janine] Brown compared Kohberger’s relative lack of stress signs to Lee Harvey Oswald."

Calm like Lee Harvey Oswald at his arraignment? As shown by what video recording in courtroom? None. As witnessed and reported by whom 60 yrs ago?*

IDK, maybe HLO was calm.

_______________________
W quick searches, did not find much detail re HLO's arraignment. Affidavit has only SEVEN LINES of TEXT, a combo of handwritten & preprinted form re homicide of John F. Kennedy (no mention of POTUS status).
Affidavit: Chapter 5.
Cover for affidavit: History Matters Archive - Warren Commission Hearings, Volume XX, pg

Lee Harvey Oswald - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I was only 8 years old, but I’m pretty sure there were no cameras inside the courtroom back then.

Perhaps the body language person saw something like this video clip?

There can’t be much footage of LHO since Jack Ruby shot him dead 2 days after his arrest on live television. ( right after this )

 

[vls12345]

Re: the Kohberger parents being subpoenaed...

I had been following the Dana Smithers thread since last year. I didn't realize initially that she was the victim for whom BK's parents were subpoenaed.

Dana Smithers went missing about a year ago, presumably murdered around that same time, but was just found a few weeks ago.

I really do wonder why BK's parents were subpoenaed over this. I mean, who is going to remember whether or not their adult son was home at a particular time on a particular evening a year ago. Kwim? I feel like there must be some concrete evidence or a connection found that seems pretty implicating of BK in order for his parents to both be brought before the grand jury. MOO.

 

[10ofRods]

Re: the Kohberger parents being subpoenaed...

I had been following the Dana Smithers thread since last year. I didn't realize initially that she was the victim for whom BK's parents were subpoenaed.

Dana Smithers went missing about a year ago, presumably murdered around that same time, but was just found a few weeks ago.

I really do wonder why BK's parents were subpoenaed over this. I mean, who is going to remember whether or not their adult son was home at a particular time on a particular evening a year ago. Kwim? I feel like there must be some concrete evidence or a connection found that seems pretty implicating of BK in order for his parents to both be brought before the grand jury. MOO.

Well, if there were evidence on her body, of any kind (say DNA or a stray hair), wouldn't using the parents as an alibi be questioned? Including any notice of behavioral issues?

In that case, if he was going to use them as his alibi, they'd surely be called. OTOH, if PA has nothing whatsoever on BK, it's a lame attempt to...diminish his case and impugn him? I want to say, to "stick it to him" but that's a bit strong

There surely must be some form of evidence (witness, fingerprint, DNA, etc). Or else PA is about to go off the rails, IMO. Which I doubt.

OTOH, maybe the parents truly do have knowledge of events. Ugh. Grand Jury is a big deal. Not all lawyers have experience with them, though - and we don't know if the Kohbergers are properly represented.

IMO.

 

[10ofRods]

I was only 8 years old, but I’m pretty sure there were no cameras inside the courtroom back then.

Perhaps the body language person saw something like this video clip?

There can’t be much footage of LHO since Jack Ruby shot him dead 2 days after his arrest on live television. ( right after this )

I was watching live, at the time. I was 8 years old.

I don't see any similarities between Oswald's vivid eye expressions (microexpressions of the lids and rest of face) and BK's impassive stare.

Not feeling the similarity but don't want to derail the thread into an Oswald discussion.

 

[10ofRods]

Body Language Expert Compares BK to Harvey Lee Oswald.
Snipped for focus. @Balthazar Thanks for your post w links.

From middle story re BK's demeanor in court "... but otherwise showed a level of calm most comparable to infamous assassin Lee Harvey Oswald, body language experts told The Post."

Article states body language expert and "best-selling author [Janine] Brown compared Kohberger’s relative lack of stress signs to Lee Harvey Oswald."

Calm like Lee Harvey Oswald at his arraignment? As shown by what video recording in courtroom? None [eta: imo]. As witnessed and reported by whom 60 yrs ago?*

IDK, maybe HLO was calm.

_______________________
W quick searches, did not find much detail re HLO's arraignment. Affidavit has only SEVEN LINES of TEXT, a combo of handwritten & preprinted form re homicide of John F. Kennedy (no mention of POTUS status).
Affidavit: Chapter 5.
Cover for affidavit: History Matters Archive - Warren Commission Hearings, Volume XX, pg

Lee Harvey Oswald - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I see the two men as completely different. Oswald is actually raising his voice, is emotional, has strain in his voice as he tries to shout his innocence to the camera as he's led to his death. He shows a lot of emotion. He shows emotion in earlier pictures, as well.

He also wrote a great deal that explained a lot and it was left for people to find. But the main think is that Oswald used his face and voice to proclaim innocence (as we usually think innocent people might do).

Kohberger keeps the same face at all times, has not uttered in public more than one word at a time (he could have said more, if he were Oswald). Oswald is a very different personality, IMO.

Since we're just speculating - that's my view.

JMO.

 

[vls12345]

Well, if there were evidence on her body, of any kind (say DNA or a stray hair), wouldn't using the parents as an alibi be questioned? Including any notice of behavioral issues?

In that case, if he was going to use them as his alibi, they'd surely be called. OTOH, if PA has nothing whatsoever on BK, it's a lame attempt to...diminish his case and impugn him? I want to say, to "stick it to him" but that's a bit strong

There surely must be some form of evidence (witness, fingerprint, DNA, etc). Or else PA is about to go off the rails, IMO. Which I doubt.

OTOH, maybe the parents truly do have knowledge of events. Ugh. Grand Jury is a big deal. Not all lawyers have experience with them, though - and we don't know if the Kohbergers are properly represented.

IMO.

Dana Smithers' body was found less than a month ago.

So, would LE have already considered BK a suspect prior to finding her? I wouldn't necessarily think so because, up until the time she was found, it seemed like there was little to no evidence to go on.

Would PA LE have had LE in ID question BK after Smithers' body was found? Is that when he gave an alibi of something like "being at home" and then his parents were questioned? Did they find fairly damning evidence toward BK once they found Smithers?

Less than a month seems like a short time (to me) to convene a grand jury about the Smithers case & compel BK's parents to testify. (I could be wrong. I don't know much about grand juries and how quickly they are convened.)

Just trying to wrap my head around the possibilities. While I knew LE were investigating BK for possible prior crimes, I'm kind of shocked by the news this afternoon.

MOO.

 

[Cindizzi]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1661570860938035201

 

[al66pine]

I was only 8 years old, but I’m pretty sure there were no cameras inside the courtroom back then.
Perhaps the body language person saw something like this video clip?
There can’t be much footage of LHO since Jack Ruby shot him dead 2 days after his arrest on live television. ( right after this )

@Cindizzi Thanks for your response.
Yes, and if I have the timeline straight,* your vid clip link preceded the arraignment.

@10ofRods thanks for weighing in w your thoughts about HLO in this vid.

_________________________________________
* From Chapter 5 <---ETA: Warren Commission Report
" Shortly after 1:30 a.m. Oswald was brought to the identification bureau on the fourth floor and arraigned before Justice of the Peace Johnston, this time for the murder President Kennedy.14"

 

[jcamh]

I just read an article about Ted Bundy - https://radaronline.com/videos/ted-bundy-death-row-execution-death-january-1989/#:~:text=For%20the%20first%20time%2C%20RadarOnline,me%20in%20sh**t.”

I found it interesting that Ted Bundy went to The University of Washington and so did BK. I wonder if BK went to the University of Washington for that reason or if it was part of his decision making.

Just my two cents

 

[Sillybilly]

Pappa Rodger has now been mentioned by MSM (Dateline) so I think we can discuss. I have discussed the FB persona quite a bit. There are more articles than just Dateline, I believe.

The account was deleted after BK was arrested, but fell silent when he was arrested. I believe there were interactions between FB and the Latah County investigators.

Pappa Rodger is, I believe, the right spelling. Again, we don't really know, but the MSM is interested in it - and there was interest from LE in the account, as well.

IMO.

We approved discussion of the Pappa Rodger Reddit account back in January. (I'm not aware of a separate FB account.)

Just for the record going forward, it was specifically stated that the Pappa Rodger Reddit account was removed by Reddit prior to BK's arrest:

from: Bryan Kohberger believed to have joined online discussion groups

An admin of the group later clarified that despite Rodgers' apparent authority in the group, he was never an admin or moderator.

Kristine Cameron, wrote: 'He was on her and argued incessantly with people and said some really creepy stuff and posted similar questions to Bryan's crime questions.

'We removed Pappa Rodgers at 7:10 the evening before Bryan's arrest. He created a group page and had 6 people in it.

'No one has heard from Pappa Rodger since the arrest.'

 

[I'm Nobody]

I see the two men as completely different. Oswald is actually raising his voice, is emotional, has strain in his voice as he tries to shout his innocence to the camera as he's led to his death. He shows a lot of emotion. He shows emotion in earlier pictures, as well.

He also wrote a great deal that explained a lot and it was left for people to find. But the main think is that Oswald used his face and voice to proclaim innocence (as we usually think innocent people might do).

Kohberger keeps the same face at all times, has not uttered in public more than one word at a time (he could have said more, if he were Oswald). Oswald is a very different personality, IMO.

Since we're just speculating - that's my view.

JMO.

Agree. Thank you. @10ofRods

Oswald almost seems to have a "normal" reaction in that clip compared to BK's perp walks.

After watching BK's walks, fake smiles at AT, BK seems like a shell of a human to me without feelings, expressionless, empty. IMO BK does NOT know what normal feelings would be for his crimes. He looks for things we don't think twice about, a smile, a frown, body language, verbal responses, so he can mirror or parrot reactions. Probably it's a spectrum of something we're NOT allowed to discuss here--to feel anything, the feeling would have to be extreme.

I watched a few videos of BK during the arraignment. I Agree with posters who said BK was likely reacting to the Judge Judge's incorrect pronunciation of victim names, maybe having thoughts how superior he is to this judge who cannot say the victims' names correctly. While I focused on BK's reactions, it was interesting to me, in the KREM2 video at 6 min, a wide shot of the courtroom, Thompson pushed his chair away from his table and was observing, actually staring, glued to BK during the reading of the charges and victims' names. Wonder what he (Thompson) was watching for?


JMO
edit clarity.

 

[Sundog]

@Swansee said: Yes, I agree it could be something else, but would his parents be considered witnesses? Whereas they could be considered as direct witnesses to him cleaning his car in December and throwing things out in the neighbors' garbage bin etc...
I shudder at the thought of this being related to the ID cards and what that might imply.

UGHHHHH. I wish I hadn't had that thought. He lived with his parents in PA, so they would be considered witnesses, I think.

Could it be related to the firearms that LE found in the parents' home?

More likely BK's cleaning of his car, tampering with evidence, and the parents were witnesses to BK's behavior.


edited to add - I posted this before the news broke that BK's parents were testifying before the grand jury in the case of a missing 45-year old woman whose body was recently found, deceased.



Sad for the parents to have to go through this, to have to testify against their own son. I wonder if the sisters will be called as witnesses to something as well.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Re: the Kohberger parents being subpoenaed...

I had been following the Dana Smithers thread since last year. I didn't realize initially that she was the victim for whom BK's parents were subpoenaed.

Dana Smithers went missing about a year ago, presumably murdered around that same time, but was just found a few weeks ago.

I really do wonder why BK's parents were subpoenaed over this. I mean, who is going to remember whether or not their adult son was home at a particular time on a particular evening a year ago. Kwim? I feel like there must be some concrete evidence or a connection found that seems pretty implicating of BK in order for his parents to both be brought before the grand jury. MOO.

Wow, it must be surreal to have been following two different cases / threads (Dana Smithers since a year ago, and Xana, Ethan, Kaylee and Maddie's since 6 months ago), and for them to be merging in parallel on some levels for now, with BK connections and Grand Juries.

I guess it's not unprecedented, but still mind blowing too, for 1 person to potentially be a party to multiple death investigations.

Not exactly the same, but something similar happened after Alec Murdaugh was recently convicted of murdering his wife and son (Maggie and Paul), after which two other previous deaths of people within his family's circle that were the "accidental" or "unexplained" deaths of Gloria Satterfield (their family housekeeper/nanny who fell down the stairs of their home) and Stephen Smith (a classmate of his surviving son Buster who was found deceased in the middle of the road not far from their home) are being reinvestigated.

In the case of Dana Smithers, I wonder if her being "just found a few weeks ago" when she had been missing for close to a year, was the result of PA LE looking into unsolved disappearances / cold cases that occurred when BK lived there, and them digging deeper and finding her through renewed efforts to follow leads? Or if her body was found randomly by a passerby? I'm leaning towards the former due to the Grand Jury, and his parents being subpoenaed.

I too feel like there must be some concrete evidence or a connection that implicates BK in Dana's death, for a Grand Jury to be formed, and his parents to be subpoenaed.

Whether or not his parents remember anything about his whereabouts or behavior around the time of her disappearance (if it goes towards his alibi), I think LE has to ask them and try to vet that, whatever or whether they may recall.

For example, I could see if she disappeared/was last seen on the ring camera leaving her friend's house at around 11:30 pm on a weekend night (after the festival), and his parents testify that they are usually night owls and/or stay up later on weekends and don't remember a time during last spring (would he have just graduated from DeSales, and if so, could that be a benchmark for them?) when they went to bed without seeing him come in, then that could be material or valuable testimony.

OTOH, if they say they go to bed early and are usually in bed by 10 pm and their adult son was sometimes out late on the weekend and they wouldn't know when he came home, that would also be valuable.

JMO

 

[Mikendee599]

Not sure how accurate Google Trends of "Bryan Kohberger Suspect " are but read that numerous searches were made in PA the same day and after her disappearance. Going to look into this.

 

[jepop]

Dana Smithers' body was found less than a month ago.

So, would LE have already considered BK a suspect prior to finding her? I wouldn't necessarily think so because, up until the time she was found, it seemed like there was little to no evidence to go on.

Would PA LE have had LE in ID question BK after Smithers' body was found? Is that when he gave an alibi of something like "being at home" and then his parents were questioned? Did they find fairly damning evidence toward BK once they found Smithers?

Less than a month seems like a short time (to me) to convene a grand jury about the Smithers case & compel BK's parents to testify. (I could be wrong. I don't know much about grand juries and how quickly they are convened.)

Just trying to wrap my head around the possibilities. While I knew LE were investigating BK for possible prior crimes, I'm kind of shocked by the news this afternoon.

MOO.

It's not clear to me from what's been reported but have BK's parents been called to testify at an "investigative GJ" as opposed to some other kind of GJ? Likewise I know next to nothing about GJs. Is there such a thing as an investigative GJ? MOO

 

[Nova]

I think in this case it was pathetic but not strategic or purposeful, just lazy. Remember in the Depp case when Elaine (AH atty) kept calling Depp atty "VasqWez"? Now that was intentional, demeaning, an attempt to throw CV off her game.

imo

I didn't follow that trial, but surely every Vasquez ("Vahs-kase") in an English-speaking country is used to being called Vasquez ("Vaas-kwehz")!

My name begins with "Mac". It's a rare day when I don't have to tell someone, "No, it's 'm-A-c'." It doesn't "throw me off" and I don't assume there is any malice when somebody spells it wrong.

 

[jjleroche]

Yeah, I can't handle it if I mispronounce any names in class, so I ask if there's any doubt, and confirm my pronunciation. I write it out phonetically on the grade sheet, so I don't forget. I have about 800 students a year. I felt it was low effort, too. I think on the first real day of a big multiple homicide case, the Judge should be prepared. One 2 minute youtube video from his own home region would have done it. Of course, I've worked for lawyers whose reading skills were not the best (their legal secretaries and paralegals were crucial to them producing their pleadings; the funniest example was a young lawyer in charge of drawing up initial corporate paperwork for Chuck E. Cheese...he had a hard time remembering the E. in there and other minor reading problems; it was Chuck E. Cheese's Pizza Time Theater; I always wondered if he realized Chuck wasn't actually the owner).

Maybe Judge Judge was nervous. I can certainly understand that. It would be hard to look out and see the faces of family members.

Can anyone weigh in as to whether some judges ask casual questions of the State? Because the lawyers for the State certainly know the names of the victims. An hour was set for the arraignment, and it only took 15 minutes. He had time. (I hate to drag the Judge so early, but...there were a couple of things about him that bugged, especially after the amazing Judge in the Stauch trial).

IMO. This judge gets 3 out of 5 stars so far.

Nerves maybe? Nerves (especially when the event at which you wil be uttering names will be viewed by millions)
can have an unnerving effect (pun intended) The mother of all name mix-ups has to be during Lady Diana Spencer's marriage vows to the then Prince Charles.

Diana’s major blunder after calling Charles wrong name during wedding

PRINCESS DIANA made a huge blunder during her wedding vows after calling Prince Charles by the wrong name, unearthed accounts show.

www.express.co.uk

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

I just read an article about Ted Bundy - https://radaronline.com/videos/ted-bundy-death-row-execution-death-january-1989/#:~:text=For%20the%20first%20time%2C%20RadarOnline,me%20in%20sh**t.”

I found it interesting that Ted Bundy went to The University of Washington and so did BK. I wonder if BK went to the University of Washington for that reason or if it was part of his decision making.

Just my two cents

BK didn't go to University of Washington (UW, aka U-dub). He went to Washington State University (WSU, aka Wazzu (wah-zoo)). WSU is in Pullman. Worlds apart from Seattle and UW. Opposite sides of the state, and two very different universities. Ted Bundy was in Seattle. He also went to University of Puget Sound (Tacoma). There is UW Med in Spokane, but Ted Bundy was not there, nor was BK. So IMO BK's choice would have very little to do with where Ted Bundy went to school.