4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #81

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Sister Golden Hair said:
OTOH IGI -- it's definitely hard to be objective in certain cases. OTOH, I would contend that BK essentially did plead Not Guilty, but he did not speak for good reason IMO. For one thing, there's no way he could have said the words "not guilty" in just the "right" voice. No matter what he'd said or how he'd said it or the tone he'd used, it would have been held against him by many, so silence might be the better choice.

Also, from an objective standpoint, I don't see it as lying to stand mute, but I'm afraid many do. That's unfortunate (and not meant as criticism here), but it's one of our most important rights, so for silence to be interpreted as guilt (or not not guilty enough), that makes the right to remain silent meaningless at a minimum, or even worse, equal to guilty. That's my issue with the way standing silent is being misconstrued by many. We have the 5th Amendment for a reason. It's also the reason I want to see really clear evidence in this case and either BARD way above and beyond or Not Guilty in equally convincing manner. JMO
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Thank you for that. It made me clear my negative and biased thinking towards BK and take my feelings out of the case and think logically. The truth is, yes, everyone deserves a fair trial-not to be prosecuted through the eyes of the media or through unknown info/hearsay. While I am on this topic, I am disappointed in our press, attorneys and whoever else is trying to benefit off of this tragedy, off of four- IMOO
 
In many jurisdictions, one must file advance paperwork to preserve the later right to sue. That's how it is where I live (California). I worked for 18 years as a paralegal for a civil plaintiff's firm. We took each and every case that came to us (even if we knew they were stinkers, because lawyers get sued for malpractice all the time, as well). Plaintiff thinks they have a case, we weren't the ones to decide that for them.

So, in each and every case where there was any public entity (and it was pretty easy to find a public entity in most cases), it was my job to create and properly serve the notice to the City/County/whatever to preserve the future right to sue, even if there was never an actual lawsuit later on. Lawyers doing what good lawyers do: representing a client and doing all the pro forma work, just in case.

I don't recall now what the window was for that paperwork, because we did it as soon as we had a plaintiff retain our firm.

This trial could be 2-3 years away. I imagine the sending of the notice to public agencies (who get them all the time) was just standard.

If evidence is thrown out under the Brady rule thing, I can see where a lawyer in general practice might advise sending that letter to preserve certain rights.

IMO.
 
Nila Aella said:
Carone is on the motion to reconsider the gag order:


Gray motioned to appeal amend or clarify gag order: SG family attorney:


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Yes, I know that they are on the motions - but are they Prosecution or Defense? The only defense lawyer whose name I can remember is AT. I assume the other two are those lawyers? I want to start memorizing, at this point.

I can't even remember the prosecutor's name at this point in time, there's been so little coverage.

IMO.
 
10ofRods said:
Yes, I know that they are on the motions - but are they Prosecution or Defense? The only defense lawyer whose name I can remember is AT. I assume the other two are those lawyers? I want to start memorizing, at this point.

I can't even remember the prosecutor's name at this point in time, there's been so little coverage.

IMO.
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Carone is the Associated Press lawyer and Gray is the Goncalves family lawyer.

William Thompson is the lead prosecutor.
 
10ofRods said:
Yes, I know that they are on the motions - but are they Prosecution or Defense? The only defense lawyer whose name I can remember is AT. I assume the other two are those lawyers? I want to start memorizing, at this point.

I can't even remember the prosecutor's name at this point in time, there's been so little coverage.

IMO.
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They aren't defense attorneys or prosecution. So far as I can tell, Carone and Olson are attorneys for the "intervenors" -- that's basically the media groups challenging the gag order. Gray is the attorney associated with only Kaylee's family originally.
JMO
 
MOO: Courts are going to have to establish guidelines for summaries of evidence records. The sheer volume of data consequence of tracking processes and data dumps from the web and the cloud as well as cell phones, GPS locators, smart watches, laptops and similar by LE yields huge volumes of data that cannot possibly be presented cogently and succinctly to a jury. Trials have seen summaries presented, hashed and rehashed but the inclusions in the summaries were the selection and collation by peripheral legal types as well as paid consultants and virtually all on behalf of the prosecution and subject to considerable challenge in terms of their validity.

More importantly to the legal process, the impartiality of those preparers is readily challenged.....particularly in terms of what else was in those data dumps that could be considered exculpatory. A well heeled defendant could finance the parse and presentation of that same data for his defense, but that delivers judicial leniency to the rich. Flip the columns around and no one would ever know they were sourced from the same data strings unless they were told...

Also the organization of those summaries varied from trial to trial: Some were time driven, some were person driven, some were account driven; depending on the critical elements of the case.

There's going to be a lot of that in this trial. So far, IIRC: over 10000 photographs and 54 terabytes of data? Are those in fact overlapping? And what proportion of it is in fact simply another data dump?

A little off topic; it will be interesting to see how this plays out. All IMHO.
 
SteveP said:
I understand your sentiment, but social media will not convict BK. A jury of his peers will, if he is convicted, after hearing evidence presented in a trial. And I assure you, he will be able to get a fair trial in Idaho, and I dare say in Latah County. You would perhaps be surprised how very many people seem completely oblivious to everything going on around them, and who never watch or read news. I see it on every thread we follow here. Heck, judging from how badly the judge mispronounced not only Kaylee's name, referring to her as "Kayla", and never pronounced Xana's first name correctly, and stumbled repeatedly over her last name, I almost had the sense he had never heard of these people before today. Kohberger will get a fair trial, and imo, will be convicted by an impartial but informed jury. JMO
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I’m behind as per usual, but the above bolded by me is my inclination especially with respect to Latah County. As a 35 year resident, the vast majority of people I know keep up with local news through reputable local outlets (not via social media), which have been pretty darn restrained. And even then, many aren’t keeping necessarily current.

I pretty firmly believe an impartial jury could definitely be seated in Latah County, and that it might be the easiest place in the entire state to seat an impartial jury because this community from the beginning has been aware of the potential of being called for jury duty for this case specifically.

MOO, as always.
 
Watched the charges being read to BK closely, <modsnip> BK seems to have more of a reaction to XK’s name being read than any other of the victims. Just an observation but I know it’s been thrown around a lot that the targets were either MM or KG. What if it was XK? Or does he have this reaction bc XK and EC ruined his original plan? Thoughts?
 
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10ofRods said:
Excellent post. And weird, but studying human responses to murder (over the past 5000 years and into the fossil record going back to around 50,000) your point is well taken. Whatever efforts we make to have more rules and laws and trials, murder is murder. And people react to that.

I do believe that if human individuals had each discovered the bodies and known what that was like, trials would be different. If we go down the path of trying to "verify" every human perception, we'll be back to pre-historic justice (which is not pretty, but pretty effective; although...banishment into the hinterlands/ice floes is no longer possible, I don't think).



Any good journalist is going to 1) look at him and 2) be able to withstand it if he looks back. IMO.



Journalists look at people (esp. defendants). Usually, people look away. This is the staring thing that BK does that I have commented on earlier.

Good journalists do not choose whom they look at, far from it. It seems like an odd thing to say, since journalists are paid for what they see - and looking away is the opposite of what they should do. If we're going to take up a seat in a court room, I feel we who write about crime should have the common sense to pay attention to...the alleged murderer. I have no clue how a person can be a journalist if they can't withstand this.

IMO.
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BBM

Jumping ahead again, but it’s not BCK’s staring I find remarkable; it’s his eye movements. For me & MOO, I feel like I can literally see his brain working in real time analyzing & adjusting his responses based on verbal & non-verbal feedback, MOO. It’s quite remarkable to me.
 
Orange Tabby said:
Carone is the Associated Press lawyer and Gray is the Goncalves family lawyer.

William Thompson is the lead prosecutor.
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Thank you. Saving your post, as I know I'll forget again. I remember Gray now.

North_Idaho_Nony said:
BBM

Jumping ahead again, but it’s not BCK’s staring I find remarkable; it’s his eye movements. For me & MOO, I feel like I can literally see his brain working in real time analyzing & adjusting his responses based on verbal & non-verbal feedback, MOO. It’s quite remarkable to me.
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When I use the word "staring," I am including the eye movements, just as you are. His eyes move around less than most people's (except for people who are in a stressful situation, including many people who have been called out for an error or have been called to do something surprising to themselves). His gaze is relatively fixed. I agree that he looks as if he's intensely studying whoever he's talking to. Even when he smiles at AT, the smile seems quick and perfunctory and disconnected from the intense, unblinking gaze (he blinks, he just doesn't do it often). Many stressed people blink more often than usual.

It does give the impression that this is a person who needs to study reactions in order to interact. Of course, I've seen him mostly in encounters with police or in court. But I am guessing that the apartment resident who started avoiding him (feeling the conversations were too one-sided and too intense), experienced the same thing (and probably also his fellow grad students and the undergrads he was teaching, I imagine).

I see this as related to his VSS. I don't want to praise him, but I think he worked to overcome the disability/condition. If he does experience depersonalization, then yes, one way for him to interact is through a series of computer-like responses, all of them consciously learned. I also want to say that among this group (lots of people have something going on - maybe 3% of people), there aren't a lot of killers. I really wish someone could study him.

IMO.
 
Eagle2123 said:
Watched the charges being read to BK closely,<modsnip>. BK seems to have more of a reaction to XK’s name being read than any other of the victims. Just an observation but I know it’s been thrown around a lot that the targets were either MM or KG. What if it was XK? Or does he have this reaction bc XK and EC ruined his original plan? Thoughts?
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If Kohberger is the killer, and if he appeared to react a bit more to the reading of Xana Kernodle's name, might it be because, per the PCA, Xana Kernodle may have been the person to whom he said, "It's okay, I'm going to help you"?

Per the PCA: "D.M. stated she opened her door a second time when she heard what she thought was crying coming from Kernodle's room. D.M. then said she heard a male voice say something to the effect of "it's okay, I'm going to help you."

Those two sentences of the Probable Cause Affidavit were the most heartbreaking, to me, because they caused me to feel that Xana Kernodle may have been the only one of those four young people to realize what was happening and/or about to happen. I would prefer not to believe that, rather very much prefer instead to believe none of them knew even a second of their fates, but when it comes to Xana Kernodle, I think the facts, when and if revealed, may prove otherwise

My opinion only, JMO.
 
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10ofRods said:
Thank you! The motion to Make Available the Record of All Proceedings of the Grand Jury is fascinating. AT is an excellent attorney, IMO. Then Judge Judge granted the motion to enlarge time for the Defense to file anofy pretrial motions to 30 days after the receipt of all those materials.
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@10ofRods re your earlier post about making the Record of All Proceedings of the Grand Jury public:
1684890253710.png
1684890303225.png
 
Muddy K said:
If Kohberger is the killer, and if he appeared to react a bit more to the reading of Xana Kernodle's name, might it be because, per the PCA, Xana Kernodle may have been the person to whom he said, "It's okay, I'm going to help you"?

Per the PCA: "D.M. stated she opened her door a second time when she heard what she thought was crying coming from Kernodle's room. D.M. then said she heard a male voice say something to the effect of "it's okay, I'm going to help you."

Those two sentences of the Probable Cause Affidavit were the most heartbreaking, to me, because they caused me to feel that Xana Kernodle may have been the only one of those four young people to realize what was happening and/or about to happen. I would prefer not to believe that, rather very much prefer instead to believe none of them knew even a second of their fates, but when it comes to Xana Kernodle, I think the facts, when and if revealed, may prove otherwise

My opinion only, JMO.
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I always look back to KG’s father that said. “Hell of a battle”. I’ve always felt DNA was under one or more victims fingernails. If a battle ensued BK‘s DNA will be under either EC or XK‘s fingernails. There’s more evidence than the public knows. Bk may even know that the struggle that insued on the 2nd floor is what has gotten him where he is. And his reaction to those charges and hearing her name caused him to clinch his teeth repeatedly.
 
Eagle2123 said:
Watched the charges being read to BK closely,<modsnip> BK seems to have more of a reaction to XK’s name being read than any other of the victims. Just an observation but I know it’s been thrown around a lot that the targets were either MM or KG. What if it was XK? Or does he have this reaction bc XK and EC ruined his original plan? Thoughts?
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Purely IMO but maybe she is the only one he feels a smidge, and I do mean smidge, of remorse about. I truly think he went in only intending to kill Maddie and then was angry that Kaylee was there (she was not supposed to be). IMO Xana and Ethan were sadly just in the wrong place at the wrong time, I don’t think he would have killed them if they (most likely Xana) had not caught him leaving.
 
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Eagle2123 said:
I always look back to KG’s father that said. “Hell of a battle”. I’ve always felt DNA was under one or more victims fingernails. If a battle ensued BK‘s DNA will be under either EC or XK‘s fingernails. There’s more evidence than the public knows. Bk may even know that the struggle that insued on the 2nd floor is what has gotten him where he is. And his reaction to those charges and hearing her name caused him to clinch his teeth repeatedly.
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Also, the fact BK wore gloves in his parents home tells me he was def not going back to Washington. Those traffic stops spooked him.
 
It was suggested by someone in the previous thread that it is too early to discuss an Alford plea. I would go much further and say that an Alford plea is a complete nonstarter.

It’s a plea bargain. It can’t happen without prosecution agreement.

Is there anyone here who actually believes that Bill Thompson would allow BK to enter such a plea and then for the rest of his life write prison letters and books extolling how he pled guilty because he had been framed, and moreover say that the prosecution had to know about the stitch-up because they let him allocute to being factually innocent?

I’m not saying any plea deal is impossible. (Although I think it very unlikely.)

My opinion is that a plea deal involving the Alford plea is as close to impossible as I can imagine. (Having proved himself in glittering style recently, schooling clearly has the skills to offer a more vibrant picture of this near impossibility.)
 
Eagle2123 said:
Watched the charges being read to BK closely, <modsnip> BK seems to have more of a reaction to XK’s name being read than any other of the victims. Just an observation but I know it’s been thrown around a lot that the targets were either MM or KG. What if it was XK? Or does he have this reaction bc XK and EC ruined his original plan? Thoughts?
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Perhaps he reacted because it's been reported that XK had defensive wounds.

From: Father Of Idaho Murder Victim Described Wounds As 'Big Open Gouges' And Called Police 'Cowards' For Not Releasing More Information | Oxygen Official Site

1684896002395.png
 
Eagle2123 said:
I always look back to KG’s father that said. “Hell of a battle”. I’ve always felt DNA was under one or more victims fingernails. If a battle ensued BK‘s DNA will be under either EC or XK‘s fingernails. There’s more evidence than the public knows. Bk may even know that the struggle that insued on the 2nd floor is what has gotten him where he is. And his reaction to those charges and hearing her name caused him to clinch his teeth repeatedly.
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We know, based on the amount of evidence already provided to the defense team, that there is more evidence; However, If if the assailant's DNA was under the fingernails of a victim, IMO it would have been mentioned in the PCA.
 
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