AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #25

[Mistree]

the den would be the optional 4th bedroom, imo. (I work for a real estate appraiser, and it could be listed as a 4 bedroom, or a 3 bedroom with a den.)

Right! But according to this listing there isn't one.

 

[Morag]

A room without a closet usually can't be described as a bedroom for real estate purposes. The den is probably used for the fourth sleeping area, though technically not a bedroom.

 

[kantoo]

Right! But according to this listing there isn't one.

Rashomon's floor plan is correct, it's just that they are using the den for a 4th bedroom

 

[Mistree]

Rashomon's floor plan is correct, it's just that they are using the den for a 4th bedroom

I'm curious then as to why this particular listing I posted doesn't list a den, study or other room?
Is it a mistake?
I have a theory that is lacking this answer. UGH

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

I'm curious then as to why this particular listing I posted doesn't list a den, study or other room?
Is it a mistake?
I have a theory that is lacking this answer. UGH

From the verbiage on the listing...

There are security screens on all bedroom windows. Den is prewired for office equiptment. Living room, Kitchen, Master Bed/Bath Garage,*

Just sloppiness on the part of the realtor that it's not noted anywhere else in the listing.

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[azshadowwalker]

Yes, Mom could have dumped Isabel's body on the way to her job.

The path between the house and TMC doesn't leave the city. I seriously doubt she was out disposing of a body on the way. What clothes did she wear to do this? Her scrubs? To find an appropriate site, and still get to work on time with nothing seemingly amiss, she would have had to have left quite early. As well as the security cameras seeing someone put something into the car (which is definitely not mentioned in the story about the Moore Security footage), they would have to have seen her car leave at an unusually early time for her shift. At that time of the morning on a Saturday, the drive from the house to TMC is about 5 minutes. It's a straight drive north on Craycroft to Grant.

As for the dogs, we don't know exactly where they alerted. The reading I did last night (some of which I posted) seems to suggest that their reliability drops when they are searching an area where the body no longer is located, especially as time passes. They are most reliable when searching an area where there is an actual body or body parts (including bones, blood and tissue). They CAN locate places where a body was before it was moved, but they are more prone to false positives in such cases.

 

[DexterMorgan]

From the verbiage on the listing...

There are security screens on all bedroom windows. Den is prewired for office equiptment. Living room, Kitchen, Master Bed/Bath Garage,*

Just sloppiness on the part of the realtor that it's not noted anywhere else in the listing.

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Bam

Room-gate has just been solved.

Lol.

3bd plus den.

But seriously. I wouldn't 380k. Especially if shady activities are happening in the alleyway behind the house.

 

[LisaWL7TR]

Bam

Room-gate has just been solved.

Lol.

3bd plus den.

But seriously. I wouldn't 380k. Especially if shady activities are happening in the alleyway behind the house.

That would be a lot of money in Ga and much more...house wise would be expected. I understand it varies by state.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

The path between the house and TMC doesn't leave the city. I seriously doubt she was out disposing of a body on the way. What clothes did she wear to do this? Her scrubs? To find an appropriate site, and still get to work on time with nothing seemingly amiss, she would have had to have left quite early. As well as the security cameras seeing someone put something into the car (which is definitely not mentioned in the story about the Moore Security footage), they would have to have seen her car leave at an unusually early time for her shift. At that time of the morning on a Saturday, the drive from the house to TMC is about 5 minutes. It's a straight drive north on Craycroft to Grant.

As for the dogs, we don't know exactly where they alerted. The reading I did last night (some of which I posted) seems to suggest that their reliability drops when they are searching an area where the body no longer is located, especially as time passes. They are most reliable when searching an area where there is an actual body or body parts (including bones, blood and tissue). They CAN locate places where a body was before it was moved, but they are more prone to false positives in such cases.

(I bolded that sentence) Both parents park in the front of the house or in the garage. Office Max's security camera may have been able to see the end of their driveway, but not inside their garage.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

See the google maps link where you can turn the page. The Office Max beside the Celis' home is huge. It may have multiple surveillance cameras that view the Celis' driveway, their front door, the street in front of their home, and the alley behind their home.
https://www.google.com/maps/@32.220...4!1sHwqYe1NXOvKG29jFbuSm9A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

The photos in this link came from May. Isabel disappeared 5 years ago in April. The trees between the Celis' home and Office Max would have had fewer leaves on them in April and would have been significantly smaller in 2012.
https://www.google.com/maps/@32.220...4!1sHwqYe1NXOvKG29jFbuSm9A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

[Glamourcat]

To me, the whole "abduction" theory just doesn't make sense. SC had the means and possibly a motive if there was abuse going on. I think he had help disposing her body and now they are closing in on them.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

From the description of the activity in the alley behind the Celis' home that came from Tucson News Now after watching Moore's Security Solutions surveillance video, I thought the Celis' lived in a dangerous area. After going on to this link and pushing the arrows to see all the streets, it isn't a dangerous area. The neighborhood sits off a busy road with many familiar businesses (Firehouse Subs, Party City, Office Max, and etc..) There are not any shady dive bars near the Celis' home. The only place that served alcohol was a slightly expensive steak house. There is no good reason for all the human activity near the Celis' home in the early morning hours caught by Moore's Security Solutions surveillance camera. The Celis' home isn't located in an area with transients and dive bar patrons who wander the alleys. You can see this too.
https://www.google.com/maps/@32.220...4!1sHwqYe1NXOvKG29jFbuSm9A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

[Snoopster]

This floor plan of the house shows 3 bedrooms - one master bedroom and two smaller bedrooms:

https://www.google.de/search?q=Floo...an+Isabel+celis+house&*&imgrc=R2r21Q27TgXzAM:

Can't thank you enough!! Between this and the real estate listing with pics....it's starting to make sense to me.
:tyou:

 

[Snoopster]

The boys (Isa's brothers) slept in the front bedroom.

Isabel was in the middle bedroom. According to the layout she would have had to walk towards her brothers' room, in view of dad, to go anywhere.

So, Dad was sleeping in the family room. His view would have been:

The cousin and friend slept in the "den" at the back.

They would have had to actually walk THROUGH the family room, where dad was sleeping/watching TV, to get to Isabel's room. (see the door in the upper right of the view in the family room.)

Just sayin'.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

"All kinds of activity over there - and it's like three in the morning,” Solis said, scrolling through hours of surveillance tape. Several subjects show interest in trash bins close to the Celis house.
http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/31971686/newly-released-video-shows-celis-home-on-night-of-disappearance

 

[inthedark14]

I haven't been here much since my girl arrived but I just wanted to send a hug out to all my WS friends and send prayers up for everyone who loved Isa.

We knew, but this still breaks your heart. Thanks to everyone who kept her in their thoughts all these years. :tears:

:rose:

Always MOO

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[desertmama]

From the description of the activity in the alley behind the Celis' home that came from Tucson News Now after watching Moore's Security Solutions surveillance video, I thought the Celis' lived in a dangerous area. After going on to this link and pushing the arrows to see all the streets, it isn't a dangerous area. The neighborhood sits off a busy road with many familiar businesses (Firehouse Subs, Party City, Office Max, and etc..) There are not any shady dive bars near the Celis' home. The only place that served alcohol was a slightly expensive steak house. There is no good reason for all the human activity near the Celis' home in the early morning hours caught by Moore's Security Solutions surveillance camera. The Celis' home isn't located in an area with transients and dive bar patrons who wander the alleys. You can see this too.
https://www.google.com/maps/@32.220...4!1sHwqYe1NXOvKG29jFbuSm9A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

IMO, Tucson is full of transients. They're everywhere. Gang activity and drug use, especially meth and heroin, are also a problem everywhere. It used to be that certain parts of the city were safer than others, but it doesn't seem to be so any more. The Broadway and Craycroft area is not, in my opinion, is not a great area. I certainly would not spend that kind of money in that neighborhood for a view of the backside of an Office Depot.

 

[desertmama]

"All kinds of activity over there - and it's like three in the morning,” Solis said, scrolling through hours of surveillance tape. Several subjects show interest in trash bins close to the Celis house.
http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/31971686/newly-released-video-shows-celis-home-on-night-of-disappearance

Also, I just want to add that dumpster diving is a big thing. Most businesses keep theirs locked, but people still rummage through common neighborhood bins, and even individual bins, looking for cans and such.

 

[kantoo]

A room without a closet usually can't be described as a bedroom for real estate purposes. The den is probably used for the fourth sleeping area, though technically not a bedroom.

the pictures I saw only showed the closet door in the master bedroom, none of the other rooms. what did you see that there was no closet in the den/4th bedroom?

thanks