CANADA Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered at Home, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #21

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Interesting in one of the above articles it states that fire department arrived shortly after the 11:44 call. Police <10 minutes later. couple of questions come to mind:

In my personal experience when 911 was called an automated message answered the call asking "what is your emergency" do you need Fire, Police or Ambulance. You make your choice and the call is put through to dispatch, it can take minutes to be answered by a live person.

Makes me wonder what choice did all of the callers make, same choice? We know it was sent out as a 3 Tier, IMO that is that the request for assistance went out to all 3 options? I would ask for police if I was calling to report deceased bodies?

I ask as fire department arrived many minutes before police and had already been through part of the home and in the pool area.

Wonder if someone got the time of call and arrival on site by FD mixed up? How quick could fire trucks show up to the Sherman home? two close stations are 4 mins and 6 minutes drive away, time to get in the truck and go add on maybe another minute so anywhere from 5 to 7 minutes to get to the Sherman's? Why is it not reported FD arrived at 11:49 or 11:51 am? why say FD arrived shortly after the 11:44 call? and then police arrive at 11:54, is that 10 minutes longer to arrive or closer to 3 minutes? Do we recall if any ambulances arrived?

50 Old Colony Rd to Toronto Fire Station 122



All three arrived. It was a serious medical call so all three tend to respond, imo. (iirc it was a ‘vital signs absent’ call).

CB & ES both called 911 saying they were dead, I’m not sure what HS’s cousin told 911 when he called, other than he was going to the home.
 
The real estate person called MS and asked if she had heard or seen HS. I completely understand that. who could imagine what emotions are going on with her. She didn't want to believe what she had seen.
She was on the phone asking MS that question when CB'S ran up the stairs and said they were dead. Immediately the police were called.
I have seen the timeline of when the kids were called and it was a while after the police were called.
The Yim document, and the TPS website both state that the call to police was made at 12.46 pm. And the YIM document also says 11.46. Either way, there is 45 mins that is unexplained, except now we know that maybe HS' cousin also showed up in the meantime? And yet he evidently wasn't there when TPS showed up on the scene?
 
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Re the delay in calling the police- another perspective: This was a high profile couple. News would get out very, very fast. I can see calling a family member who is not only very close to the deceased but also someone ES knows personally, before unleashing the chaos.
Since the realtor did not get close to the bodies, and she wasnt really sure what she had seen, wouldnt the first thing you would have expected her to do IMMEDIATELY was to call 911 in case emergency medical attention would be of benefit to the Shermans? Instead, they sat around upstairs waiting for the plant lady to go downstairs? Sorry, it makes no sense IMO.
 
Also, if MS thought Honey had a will that would benefit her, one can surely imagine that MS would go to great lengths to unearth it. The fact that Honey is declared intestate indicates that despite her closeness with Honey, her potential knowledge of counsel, etc., MS could not locate a will for Honey.
Agreed- perhaps in spite of her best efforts, we have to assume she did not locate a will.
 
One major thing that stood out to me in the reports was that there is no mention of Honey having a personal banking acct or even a debit card. (Only an Aeroplan Visa) IMO, it is very strange that she used her Visa to take out cash @ a CIBC that evening before she went home. They were known for being extremely frugal. Why would she use a card like that for a cash advance? The interest starts immediately from the day the money is withdrawn. If the amount was $7,500 that she withdrew, that amount would quickly rise with daily interest fees. Since it seems that BS was a bit controlling with her access to money, it appears odd that this would be her regular habit of withdrawing funds. FWIW, this solidifies my belief that she was under duress at Bayview Village and she may have been followed, or was forced to withdraw that sum on the spot by someone she knew. 5 years later and the surveillance footage is still protected speaks volumes to something important being picked up that night by the bank's camera.
 
One major thing that stood out to me in the reports was that there is no mention of Honey having a personal banking acct or even a debit card. (Only an Aeroplan Visa) IMO, it is very strange that she used her Visa to take out cash @ a CIBC that evening before she went home. They were known for being extremely frugal. Why would she use a card like that for a cash advance? The interest starts immediately from the day the money is withdrawn. If the amount was $7,500 that she withdrew, that amount would quickly rise with daily interest fees. Since it seems that BS was a bit controlling with her access to money, it appears odd that this would be her regular habit of withdrawing funds. FWIW, this solidifies my belief that she was under duress at Bayview Village and she may have been followed, or was forced to withdraw that sum on the spot by someone she knew. 5 years later and the surveillance footage is still protected speaks volumes to something important being picked up that night by the bank's camera.
Hi- You can use any bank's debit card at an ATM machine for a small fee (maybe $2-$3). I have a CIBC chequing account, but I often withdraw money from that account from other bank ATM's like Royal or TD. Just because she went to a CIBC ATM it doesnt mean she used her CIBC Visa to take a cash advance on that card.
 
Hi- You can use any bank's debit card at an ATM machine for a small fee (maybe $2-$3). I have a CIBC chequing account, but I often withdraw money from that account from other bank ATM's like Royal or TD. Just because she went to a CIBC ATM it doesnt mean she used her CIBC Visa to take a cash advance on that card.
Hi- oh, I know! I do that too when needed... probably way too often. I just meant that based on the police reports that were put online, the only banking card listed for Honey was a CIBC Aeroplan Visa... every other bank account was in Barry's Name and specifically said Honey was not listed as an account holder. (With CIBC, TD and BMO...with BMO, she's listed with Barry on their private banking, but that is usually tied up with an investments/stocks/GIC's, so a bank card to access funds is not accessible)I just thought that since it indicated that Honey only had a CIBC Aeroplan Visa in her name out of all three of their banks, and if that is what she used that night to take out a large sum of money, it does seem strange (IMO) since you have to pay fees from that day forward until it's paid in full.... hearing stories to the extent of their frugalness, it just seemed odd that she would knowingly waste money on bank charges But, could be nothing too.
 

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I don't understand these people at all. You find 2 dead bodies who are your bosses and you make several calls to other people before you call 911? This has always bothered me. The one person clearly stated they were murdered BUT lets call several other people first, before we call the police!

That alone is strange. It's not like you are all by yourself and you are confused and not thinking clearly from the shock of finding 2 dead people so you phone a couple other people first BUT there were several people there and not one person decided to call 911 immediately? I wonder how thoroughly they were questioned by police over this detail?

I can’t figure it out except that maybe that 11:00 am arrival time for CB was an error on the ITO.

If the real estate tour started around 10:45 that means they went very fast through the first part of the home and front part of the basement, imo.

ETA: It does seem like an error in the first pages of the the ITO, and @RHR is likely correct about CB’s arrival time. Page 13:
463140A5-C2E5-451F-ACAD-47295348C30B.jpeg
 
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Toronto Weather History for December 13, 2017​

5:00 pm-9 °CPassing clouds.15 km/h62%100.41 kPa24 km
6:00 pm-9 °COvercast.9 km/h62%100.33 kPa24 km
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11:00 pm-10 °CLight snow. Overcast.19 km/h79%100.28 kPa10 km
Thank you
 
One major thing that stood out to me in the reports was that there is no mention of Honey having a personal banking acct or even a debit card. (Only an Aeroplan Visa) IMO, it is very strange that she used her Visa to take out cash @ a CIBC that evening before she went home. They were known for being extremely frugal. Why would she use a card like that for a cash advance? The interest starts immediately from the day the money is withdrawn. If the amount was $7,500 that she withdrew, that amount would quickly rise with daily interest fees. Since it seems that BS was a bit controlling with her access to money, it appears odd that this would be her regular habit of withdrawing funds. FWIW, this solidifies my belief that she was under duress at Bayview Village and she may have been followed, or was forced to withdraw that sum on the spot by someone she knew. 5 years later and the surveillance footage is still protected speaks volumes to something important being picked up that night by the bank's camera.
I think they were frugal with themselves. They were extremely generous with everyone else.
 
As is customary/required: This is speculation/IMO/no one has been arrested/everyone assumed innocent/etc.

Stages of Escalation:

Patterns of escalation in desperation can occur when individuals feel increasingly driven to fulfill their desires or achieve their goals. As time passes and their efforts remain unfulfilled, the intensity of their desperation tends to grow, leading to a series of escalating behaviors and actions. These patterns can vary depending on the specific situation and the individual involved, but they often follow a similar trajectory.

Frustration and Initial Attempts:

The initial stage of desperation is characterized by feelings of frustration and discontentment. The individual recognizes their unmet needs or desires and starts making initial attempts to fulfill them. These attempts may be relatively mild or subtle, such as seeking help, making requests, or trying to find alternative solutions.

Increased Intensity and Persistence:

As their initial attempts fail to yield the desired outcome, desperation intensifies. The individual becomes more persistent in their pursuit, often investing more time, energy, and resources into their efforts. They may display heightened determination, repeatedly approaching others, or exploring different strategies to achieve their goal.

Heightened Emotional Response:

With time, the emotional response to unmet desires intensifies. The individual experiences heightened frustration, anxiety, or even anger due to the prolonged unfulfillment of their needs. This emotional turmoil can further fuel their desperation, driving them to push harder and take more significant risks to get what they want.

Escalation of Tactics:

Desperation can lead individuals to escalate their tactics in pursuit of their goals. They may resort to more assertive or aggressive behavior, breaking social norms or ethical boundaries. This escalation could involve manipulation, deception, coercion, or even illegal actions as they become increasingly focused on achieving their desired outcome.

Heightened Risk-Taking:

As desperation continues to grow, individuals may become willing to take greater risks to accomplish their goals. They may engage in high-stakes actions, disregarding potential consequences or negative repercussions. The fear of failure or the belief that their desperation justifies any means necessary can lead them to cross boundaries they wouldn't have considered before.

Extreme Measures:

In some cases, escalating desperation can drive individuals to extreme measures. These may include acts of desperation such as self-harm, threats, or even violence towards others. Desperation can cloud judgment and lead individuals to believe that extreme actions are the only way to achieve their desired outcome.

It is important to note that escalation in desperation does not always lead to the desired outcome. Instead, it can create a cycle of unfulfilled expectations and increasing desperation, potentially leading to further emotional distress or negative consequences.

Understanding and addressing patterns of escalation in desperation is crucial to prevent potential harm to oneself or others. It is essential to seek support from trusted individuals, such as friends, family, or professionals, who can provide guidance, perspective, and alternative solutions to navigate through challenging situations.

Another thing to keep in mind is KDs work on JS over time.

1. 2011: JS states he is becoming slowly suicidal over financial concerns related to BS and FD.

2. 2015: JS in an email to BS around business talks: "We have many things to discuss. But Frank will have to be one of them. My genuine goal is to understand this situation and then move on to more important matters like sucession and whether Adam and I can play some role in that."

3. 2015: According to KD, the email in 2 was right before he tries to declare BS incompentent via email to his sisters who fought back firecly against this idea.

4. JS loses some funding for a while before BS relents some time later.

5. 2017: BS aggressively pursues $50-60 million in loans for JS. This would force JS/AP to retain mortages and actual debt, something that has never happened. JS gives KD emails, tells him he will never mislead him. KD subsequently obtains emails from another source highlighting the tension between JS and BS over AP being involved 2 weeks before BS asks for the money. JK acts as a source telling KD how BS was no fan of AP. KD uncovers some of the email chain. JS and AP ask BS for $6 million for Green Storage after he had repeatedly demanded the $50-60 million. BS replies to both JS and AP asking for $6 million but BS opens email to AP. This would be the last email: "Adam, as discussed, you have to take steps immediately to obtain mortages, what will you do and when?" The intensity of BS requests are increasing over time. The fact he doesn't even comment on the $6 million ask is telling beyond words here. JS reveals to KD that BS spoke of a 2 year hold on deposits to JS. He downplays this and minimizes it as well as the other factors. According to KD JS only gets upset over the Tesla and airline ticket comments in his book, not any of the other content of the discussion.

6. 2017: Evidence surfaces suggesting that both BS and HS were in contact with lawyers, including DH, who specialize in estate and succession planning. DH has a publicly available interview where he strongly suggests planning in advance, and that a boiler plate will, or split between the kids, is not nearly enough. DH places a call to BS at 9:01 pm on 2017.12.13, the night of the murders. BS had planned to go home early that night. HS had told a close friend in late Nov she had come from updating her will and was making amendments. Speculation surfaces suggesting that HS was perhaps about to receive a large payout in a deal she had with BS. This would overlap with the months leading up to changes to their estate planning.

***KD concedes publicly he has thought a lot about JS strange comments over time. In an interview with a Toronto journalist, KD promoting the podcast says it beefs up the details from the book. He openly states he’s leading the audience in a direction and wants them to wander in that direction. KD subsequently publicly states and confirms he has a theory and a “belief” of “who did it”. The Crave documentary explicitly floats JS being involved as per the quote in the trailer from KD. They obviously are consciously pushing the theory the family are involved. It isn’t a salacious trailer of KW screaming and going off the rails. That matters.

Given the likelihood of overlap between the KD “theory” and the TPS “theory” it’s curious there isn’t more explicit conversation around what KD is actually reporting. For legal and journalistic ethics reasons he cannot publicly state his theory or who he thinks “did it”. He can however lead the audience in that direction. He isn’t going to focus on anything other than his own prized theory as he ends the podcast. I ask again, what story does KD tell? What is it, in its essence, he’s trying to convey?

There is a seduction at play here to think this was solely for money. Yea, it was financially motivated. But to cross into this sort of thing, it goes beyond money. It comes down to identity. Someone’s identity was on the chopping block, given how closely they tethered their identity to power, control, wealth, and the pursuit of these things as they saw it. Identity was what was actually threatened and in need of protection. This was about survival.



P.S.: is David Wallace’s podcast on “Blackballed” delusion?

P.P.S.: one would be remiss if the following wasn't mentioned - the best version of the BP press conference is CityNews on Youtube. There you get to hear and see the reporters. And, more importantly, the reactions.



"Here's Johnny!"
IMO David Wallace is as you have described
 
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