Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #13

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missy1974 said:
I'm guessing you have never followed a Canadian case before? lol We have actually heard way more than I ever expected to hear. RCMP has stated they are still investigating Chynna and Lucas' murders, and the mere fact that there were no charges laid before the 2 men were found dead, tells me that they may not have had enough evidence to do so. So until they are done investigating, I am not sure how much more we will hear officially.

Hypothetically... (very hypothetically IMO)... what if there is a 3rd person involved? What if they can't connect the 2 to Chynna/Lucas murders? Canada still has laws in place that prevent the publication of details of crimes, and until they are certain, the integrity of the information/investigation has to remain.
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In this regard, I have profound respect for our RCMP. They may not always satisfy public curiosity (because this is essentially what they would be doing in revealing details that haven't been confirmed via evidence), but are hanging in there until they have absolute confirmation of facts. No running off at the mouth to satisfy those who simply want to know. Of course, as a result, media outlets such as Murdoch's crowd spin away like drunken tops, making themselves look ridiculous, but at least the reliable papers and outlets won't publish anything not backed up by the professionals handling the case. The BC RCMP fellow gave excellent reasons for not being able to divulge details at the last press conference. I am satisfied with this although my sleuthing self would like to know more.
 
srper2 said:
Who has brought a "distrust of one's own LE from one nation to another" here? What I have seen is frustration from websleuths with the lack of information
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And allegations that because they don't have details they want to know, that "secrets" are happening and that this "leads to coverups". There's more than one post - perhaps you missed them.
 
NJSleuth91 said:
Yes which is why I didn't criticize the lack of information while there was a chance the two would be found alive. I thought it was prudent to not compromise potential juries. But now there will be no trial. So I don't know why even basic details of how the murders took place, or what links Kam and Bryer to them, are such a big secret now.

I still commend them for the search effort, actually finding these two against all odds, and nobody else getting hurt in the search effort. I do criticize them on the information flow, and the lack of timely alerts after Lucas and Chynna were found.
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There may be no trial but BS and KM still have family that would be affected by what the RCMP might get wrong if they spoke too soon. If the two fugitives had any money, their estates would be open to civil suits by the victims. Legally the RCMP still has to operate as if there were going to be a trial. Everyone thinks it's over but it's not over yet.

I think the fact that they found the two after they were dead is quite incredible. I could see the RCMP picking up their trail on the steep sandy cliffs that rose up to 30 m / 100 ft because the fugitives would be scrabbling to get up them and would have left clearly disturbed earth. For the suspects and RCMP to keep going after beating through 1 km of bush though...I think if I were there I would be having a lot of doubts about being in a meaningful place. I am amazed that they found them in the brush.
 
Vern said:
And allegations that because they don't have details they want to know, that "secrets" are happening and that this "leads to coverups". There's more than one post - perhaps you missed them.
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I have seen them, but ignored most, I guess that I thought the mods would remove! I try to focus on the posts that are providing theories and ideas and avoid the other ones if I can!
 
srper2 said:
Who has brought a "distrust of one's own LE from one nation to another" here? What I have seen is frustration from websleuths with the lack of information
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A lot of the people criticizing the RCMP are Canadian. I don't know where they're getting this from that every person in Canada implicitly trusts the police.

Vern said:
And allegations that because they don't have details they want to know, that "secrets" are happening and that this "leads to coverups". There's more than one post - perhaps you missed them.
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I never said there was a coverup in this case. I just said in general lack of transparency leads to corruption and coverups. For the record I think they probably did all three murders. But I also cannot say for sure if the only evidence that has been presented is "trust me, we have evidence."
 
mrjitty said:
IMO RCMP are to be congratulated for their persistence and bravery in the case.

Going after shooters in the back of beyond requires no small amount of balls
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And braving the bugs and terrain etc. I can also imagine accommodation may have been an issue if there were more people than could be catered for comfortably!
 
Moonlitnight said:
In this regard, I have profound respect for our RCMP. They may not always satisfy public curiosity (because this is essentially what they would be doing in revealing details that haven't been confirmed via evidence), but are hanging in there until they have absolute confirmation of facts. No running off at the mouth to satisfy those who simply want to know. Of course, as a result, media outlets such as Murdoch's crowd spin away like drunken tops, making themselves look ridiculous, but at least the reliable papers and outlets won't publish anything not backed up by the professionals handling the case. The BC RCMP fellow gave excellent reasons for not being able to divulge details at the last press conference. I am satisfied with this although my sleuthing self would like to know more.
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Three cheers for some common sense.

I’m in New York, where I can’t turn on cable news at the moment without watching incredibly repetitive, nonstop coverage of murders that has no apparent purpose than filling up 24 hours every day to sell advertising.

At this point, I’ve turned it off, but apparently there’s a big audience for this, otherwise the cable networks wouldn’t be doing it. No doubt it makes amateur sleuths happy :)
 
rrstren said:
Three cheers for some common sense.

I’m in New York, where I can’t turn on cable news at the moment without watching incredibly repetitive, nonstop coverage of murders that has no apparent purpose than filling up 24 hours every day to sell advertising.

At this point, I’ve turned it off, but apparently there’s a big audience for this, otherwise the cable networks wouldn’t be doing it. No doubt it makes amateur sleuths happy :)
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"Three cheers for some common sense?? I am still getting a huge hint of judgemental sarcasm here and think I will log off for the night as repetitive judgements and sarcasm do not help move the forum forward...
 
August 10, 2019
Toronto shooting survivor says details helped her as RCMP mum on B.C. cases
"VANCOUVER -- As the RCMP remains tight-lipped about why two young men may have killed three people in northern British Columbia, one of the survivors in Toronto's Danforth shooting says she's been following the story closely.

Danielle Kane said the Toronto police department's decision to release a detailed report on its investigation provided her with clarity about what happened the night she was paralyzed from the waist down and insight into the man who shot her.

"It helped me process the whole thing and it also allowed the public to kind of figure out, well, what are the things that kind of lead up to this sort of thing happening? What are the factors?" she said in an interview.
"I think that's important for the public to know, instead of just wild speculation, because that's what's happening now."
........................................................................................................................................
"They may need to be cautious and careful about how they put things, but I would hope to hear more from police about motivation because ultimately we want to prevent future incidents of this kind," said Neil Boyd, a criminologist at Simon Fraser University in Burnaby, B.C.

Boyd also defended the Mounties handling of the case, arguing that releasing too many details while the fugitives were still at large could have compromised the investigation.

Some details may also be shared with the affected families alone, if they are needlessly gruesome or involve personal information, he said."
 
NJSleuth91 said:
A lot of the people criticizing the RCMP are Canadian. I don't know where they're getting this from that every person in Canada implicitly trusts the police.

I never said there was a coverup in this case. I just said in general lack of transparency leads to corruption and coverups. For the record I think they probably did all three murders. But I also cannot say for sure if the only evidence that has been presented is "trust me, we have evidence."
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In Canada there is no trial by media before the trial. We are used to that. It is not for the public to decide if there should be charges, or the RCMP, but the Crown. The evidence is then presented all at once at trial and not piecemeal through the press. Since there will be no trial at this point, the evidence will be presented in an investigative report perhaps a year from now. There will be transparency, just not as fast as you would like it as an American observer with no stakes in the game.
 
dotr said:
August 10, 2019
Toronto shooting survivor says details helped her as RCMP mum on B.C. cases
"VANCOUVER -- As the RCMP remains tight-lipped about why two young men may have killed three people in northern British Columbia, one of the survivors in Toronto's Danforth shooting says she's been following the story closely.

Danielle Kane said the Toronto police department's decision to release a detailed report on its investigation provided her with clarity about what happened the night she was paralyzed from the waist down and insight into the man who shot her.

"It helped me process the whole thing and it also allowed the public to kind of figure out, well, what are the things that kind of lead up to this sort of thing happening? What are the factors?" she said in an interview.
"I think that's important for the public to know, instead of just wild speculation, because that's what's happening now."
........................................................................................................................................
"They may need to be cautious and careful about how they put things, but I would hope to hear more from police about motivation because ultimately we want to prevent future incidents of this kind," said Neil Boyd, a criminologist at Simon Fraser University in Burnaby, B.C.

Boyd also defended the Mounties handling of the case, arguing that releasing too many details while the fugitives were still at large could have compromised the investigation.

Some details may also be shared with the affected families alone, if they are needlessly gruesome or involve personal information, he said."
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The Danforth Avenue mass shooting (15 shot, 2 killed) was on July 22, 2018 and the Toronto police department released its report, which is available on the internet, on June 21, 2019.
 
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rrstren said:
This is going off the rails. There is no conspiracy/coverup and the RCMP in two provinces are not protecting the real killer. Nor did the RCMP kill McLeod and Schmegelsky.

The RCMP are also not in the business of satisfying the desire of US cable news for minute by minute updates no matter how premature or partial. Thank God.
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Australian laws appear to be very similar to those in Canada. Our trials aren't live streamed, it's not a given that reporters can tweet from court, sometimes photos of the accused are suppressed until after a trial (even though the accused's face is all over the internet), no court documents are published, jurors are banned from speaking to the media during and after a trial ... the list is endless, and many sentences handed down are an absolute disgrace in Oz. I was blown away by everything that came out in the Chris Watts case. That would never happen here, and for that I'm truly grateful.

Apart from sensitive cases, e.g. where a child is involved, I believe high profile trials should be livestreamed. Unless evidence is given in camera, courts are open to the public, but it's hardly convenient for most people to attend. You know the old expression, "Justice must be done and be seen to be done". US courts are polar opposites to Oz. I think too much is released there and waaay too little here.

Apart from not releasing the fact that two people had been shot to death on the Alaska Highway, I believe the RCMP have done a most impressive job. That said, I'll be more than disappointed if they don't release the cause of death for LD, BS and KM because there's no necessity for details other than shot, blunt force trauma, etc. There's not much anyone can do about the Why factor, but we've seen that happen before. Not knowing why it happened drives everyone crazy, but there's nothing anyone can do about that.
 
Trooper said:
When the 'Australian' news paper tells me the temp, I always check with the Bureau of Meteorology. That news paper and truth are complete strangers, on a par with 'News of the World'..
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:D Oh my, is the News of the World still going strong? That is just one level above the Enquirer. My parents used to get that delivered on Sundays so that my mum could read what she termed "the juicy stuff." There was also the Sunday Express and the Sunday Pictorial (which I believe became the Sunday Mirror in latter years). Thank heavens for papers that are not sensationalistic rubbish.
 
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JudgeJudi said:
Apart from not releasing the fact that two people had been shot to death on the Alaska Highway, I believe the RCMP have done a most impressive job.
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The RCMP issued a statement at 11:00 a.m. the following morning, after what was almost certainly an all-night investigation, saying that its Major Crimes Unit had been brought in to handle the two deaths. That paints a clear picture of the situation.
 
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