Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #13

[Moonlitnight]

The RCMP issued a statement at 11:00 a.m. the following morning, after what was almost certainly an all-night investigation, saying that its Major Crimes Unit had been brought in to handle the two deaths. That paints a clear picture of the situation.

Yes, it does.

 

[Deleted member 248860]

Australian laws appear to be very similar to those in Canada. Our trials aren't live streamed, it's not a given that reporters can tweet from court, sometimes photos of the accused are suppressed until after a trial (even though the accused's face is all over the internet), no court documents are published, jurors are banned from speaking to the media during and after a trial ... the list is endless, and many sentences handed down are an absolute disgrace in Oz. I was blown away by everything that came out in the Chris Watts case. That would never happen here, and for that I'm truly grateful.

Apart from sensitive cases, e.g. where a child is involved, I believe high profile trials should be livestreamed. Unless evidence is given in camera, courts are open to the public, but it's hardly convenient for most people to attend. You know the old expression, "Justice must be done and be seen to be done". US courts are polar opposites to Oz. I think too much is released there and waaay too little here.

Apart from not releasing the fact that two people had been shot to death on the Alaska Highway, I believe the RCMP have done a most impressive job. That said, I'll be more than disappointed if they don't release the cause of death for LD, BS and KM because there's no necessity for details other than shot, blunt force trauma, etc. There's not much anyone can do about the Why factor, but we've seen that happen before. Not knowing why it happened drives everyone crazy, but there's nothing anyone can do about that.

You are right, the Australian and Canadian criminal law systems are very similar, as are those of New Zealand and the United Kingdom.

Having watched parts of the OJ Simpson case, I do not ever want to see that duplicated outside the United States, which itself is in no hurry to do that again. It was a complete circus.

No doubt some may disagree.

 

[musicaljoke]

.
It just seems like an open door to corruption and coverups, is all I'm saying.

There are different layers in the process that operate at an arms length to protect the system. Police gather evidence, independent labs and professionals study the evidence. The Crown lays charges based on the independent lab results and police reports. The Crown's mandate is to act fairly to make sure justice is done.

The police don't have the authority in Canada to lay charges.

I'm sure it's not foolproof, but there is protocol in place to limit corruption and coverups.

 

[Kubirai]

Perhaps. But, I'm unsure what the keys actually have to do with anything - especially now. The boys obviously had the keys when they stole the vehicle as they'd have had to stop to gas it up along their route (there MUST be more footage of them on their journey as a single tank would not have gotten them from Northern BC to Gillam). I suspect that the most important thing to do was find the two wanted suspects as there were truly people with lives at risk until that situation was dealt with one way or another. The keys are minutae at that point. Why need them? To check for fingerprints? Occam's Razor.

Keys shouldn't have been left on the road, and their forensic value should not have been determined by the frontline officers.

Finally, we shouldn't be providing excuses for an obvious mistake in collecting all evidence at a key location.

Yes, even those half-eaten pork chops could have contained DNA of the fugitives. Frontline officers should not have assumed they were eaten by Prof. Dyck, and had no forensic value.

 

[dotr]

Wild speculation!
Any chance the anime fans chose to die or suffered serious burns in a fire?
RCMP continue search for suspects in three B.C. slayings
"The teens have Facebook pages under their own names and both are linked to an account called “Illusive Gameing.” That username, complete with the misspelling, also shows up on YouTube, as well as video-game networks Twitch and Steam. The accounts share similar imagery and themes, including the Communist icon, far-right politics, sexualized Japanese anime and the survivalist video game Rust."
July 18 2019
Arson attack at Japan anime studio kills 33
"At least 33 people died and dozens were injured after a man set fire to an animation studio in the Japanese city of Kyoto, officials say."
rbbm.

 

[Tipamith]

Please ignore if this has been discussed

Perhaps the teens came up to the van as the murder was occurring? The perp saw their truck, obviously did not chase them but knew they saw something. The teens took a couple days trying to sort what to do and decided to steel someone s car so the perp wouldn’t be able
To connect them. They were trying to steal the RAV4 and accidentally ran over LD ?
They were actually running from the perp more than the rcmp?

 

[Deleted member 248860]

The police don't have the authority in Canada to lay charges.

Just a clarification. The Crown routinely pre-screens charges only in B.C., Québec and New Brunswick. Other provinces are considering it, on the ground that it reduces the incidence of questionable charges. In those provinces, the Crown prosecutors are sometimes, but not routinely, involved in pre-screening charges. This means that they have to step in and stop proceedings post-charge if they disagree with the police charging decision.

In B.C., for example, which does routinely pre-screen, the Crown prosecutors use a test which is more stringent than the test set out in the Criminal Code.

P.S. For those who don’t know, Canada has a single Criminal Code that applies throughout the country. The provinces do not each have their own criminal law.

 

[Gina20]

August 10, 2019
Toronto shooting survivor says details helped her as RCMP mum on B.C. cases
"VANCOUVER -- As the RCMP remains tight-lipped about why two young men may have killed three people in northern British Columbia, one of the survivors in Toronto's Danforth shooting says she's been following the story closely.

Danielle Kane said the Toronto police department's decision to release a detailed report on its investigation provided her with clarity about what happened the night she was paralyzed from the waist down and insight into the man who shot her.

"It helped me process the whole thing and it also allowed the public to kind of figure out, well, what are the things that kind of lead up to this sort of thing happening? What are the factors?" she said in an interview.
"I think that's important for the public to know, instead of just wild speculation, because that's what's happening now."
........................................................................................................................................
"They may need to be cautious and careful about how they put things, but I would hope to hear more from police about motivation because ultimately we want to prevent future incidents of this kind," said Neil Boyd, a criminologist at Simon Fraser University in Burnaby, B.C.

Boyd also defended the Mounties handling of the case, arguing that releasing too many details while the fugitives were still at large could have compromised the investigation.

Some details may also be shared with the affected families alone, if they are needlessly gruesome or involve personal information, he said."

Thank you, dotr. I agree with Danielle Kane. As time goes forward and the investigation concludes, there will come a time for disclosure.

The Danforth shooting, for those who never heard of it, was a shooting carried out on a busy public street in Toronto on a warm summer evening. None of the victims knew the shooter. Two young people died. Others, like Danielle, were injured. It was random violence, another case that replayed endlessly on national TV.

This happened only a year ago, so Toronto police definitely have been diligent and timely in releasing the report that Danielle Kane has found so helpful.

2018 Toronto shooting - Wikipedia

Toronto is dealing with another summer of violence, this time involving gangs. But it is the incomprehensible randomness of the Danforth shooting that seems closer to the B.C. murders.

Thank you to Danielle Kane. As a victim, she understands why modern policing needs to be responsive to victims. The victims of the B.C. murders include the families of those who lost their lives, the families of those suspected of taking them, the people they made contact with along the way, the communities that suffered in fear and the Canadian people who watched on in shock as the story unfolded. An open wound like this won't heal if it's left to fester. Times have changed, and our gendarmes need to recognize this and step up to face the society we live in now, not the society of 1873.

 

[Spy Versus Spy]

Oh my, is the News of the World still going strong? That is just one level above the Enquirer. My parents used to get that delivered on Sundays so that my mum could read what she termed "the juicy stuff." There was also the Sunday Express and the Sunday Pictorial (which I believe became the Sunday Mirror in latter years). Thank heavens for papers that are not sensationalistic rubbish.

News of the World - Wikipedia

Thankfully the NotW ceased in 2011 in the wake of the PhoneHacking revelations.

Eta...Esp the Millie Dowler hacking.

 

[dameagatha]

Given that it appears that C & L met their deaths at some time between reportedly being seen alive at 11:30 pm on the 14th and the discovery of their bodies the next morning at about 7:30 am on the 15th, one can presume their tragic deaths occurred at some time during that awful night. Does anyone else think it possible that BS and CM could have happened along at some time during the darkness of night AFTER their murders and robbed their seemingly "abandoned" van of valuables without ever seeing the two bodies lying on the grass outside?

And then murder Prof Dyck & steal his car? No.

 

[Moonlitnight]

You are right, the Australian and Canadian criminal law systems are very similar, as are those of New Zealand and the United Kingdom.

Having watched parts of the OJ Simpson case, I do not ever want to see that duplicated outside the United States, which itself is in no hurry to do that again. It was a complete circus.

No doubt some may disagree.

It was that, and my entire family bought daily tickets. I would not watch this again due to the absolutely horrible "looky loo" aspect of watching the faces of the bereaved as they listened to how their loved ones passed. JUST. AWFUL.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Apart from not releasing the fact that two people had been shot to death on the Alaska Highway, I believe the RCMP have done a most impressive job. That said, I'll be more than disappointed if they don't release the cause of death for LD, BS and KM because there's no necessity for details other than shot, blunt force trauma, etc. There's not much anyone can do about the Why factor, but we've seen that happen before. Not knowing why it happened drives everyone crazy, but there's nothing anyone can do about that.

Well, they already said during the press conference when Kam and Bryer's bodies were found that they're never, ever going to release Prof Dyck's cause of death.

I also agree we don't need every single gory detail. I think some people are thinking I want this to be some kind of Nancy Grace thing. That's untrue. But at least the broad strokes of what transpired, how the murder was committed, and what types of evidence were used to link Kam and Bryer. Right now we don't even know what the murder weapon was for one of the murders. The only reason we know for Lucas and Chynna is because the Australian press leaked it, and even then it's the vaguest description.

Having watched parts of the OJ Simpson case, I do not ever want to see that duplicated outside the United States, which itself is in no hurry to do that again. It was a complete circus.

No doubt some may disagree.

There's a whole lot of middle ground between not even saying how a murder was committed, and the OJ trial.

 

[Kubirai]

Dani Kane, paralyzed survivor of Toronto Danforth shooting explains how the detailed police report helped her to heal. She and others are urging RCMP to release more information about the BC murders.

Survivors of Toronto’s Danforth shooting following B.C. murder case closely

The photo in that article was taken on July 12 at Liberty Park. Peter German, a retired RCMP investigator, is quoted. The Danforth shootings took place on July 22 evening.

BC killers left home on July 12, and arrived at their final destination on July 22. Such random coincidences pop up in our brain due to Baader Meinhof Syndrome. Noticed Libery German in above paragraph?

 

[Schmoosh]

That's about all the evidence that is truly obvious to us. However,the RCMP said that there was substantial evidence of them being the murderers, so we can guess that there is some solid evidence of that fact.

So what could be the evidence of which the RCMP speaks? There likely would be footprints, and probably DNA evidence to put them at the scene and maybe even enough to reconstruct their movements. Is it possible that both suspects left home with camo jackets and one was left behind at the crime scene? A witness perhaps, dashcams ... personal items left behind, perhaps the murder weapon was found? Who knows?

Lots of guesswork, but just stealing a vehicle isn't enough to bring about murder charges.

Thanks. I still think there might be more to clear up re: their talk of starting a militia.

 

[Zella]

Can someone please link where BS's uncle said they left with a lot of money? The video I watched of him was short and didn't include that. Thanks in advance!

 

[musicaljoke]

Keys shouldn't have been left on the road, and their forensic value should not have been determined by the frontline officers.

Finally, we shouldn't be providing excuses for an obvious mistake in collecting all evidence at a key location.

Yes, even those half-eaten pork chops could have contained DNA of the fugitives. Frontline officers should not have assumed they were eaten by Prof. Dyck, and had no forensic value.

A few people have mentioned the possible implications that can be directly learned from the keys, particularly as evidence supporting the suspects stealing the vehicle. There may be some other implied implications. But would the keys provide evidence of the murder? Is it possible that all the evidence needed to prove that the suspects committed the murder is onsite in BC, and that the site of the RAV burning doesn't have much evidentiary value? Is it a crime scene?

 

[copkid]

see... this is a difficult scenario, isn't it? 'just killed themselves with a gun'... logically, or.. actually, logistically, that implies they both had a gun each. Both managed to keep both guns in good condition and loaded throughout all the haste of their travels. ..

Or.. one had one gun. Then one has to extract that gun to use on oneself. Reload, perhaps. . . That would have to be the one in actual charge of the lone weapon.. Or.. one does the both …

Lying down and dying together, . . that requires a considerable amount of luck, actually. The human body is so resilient, so unco-operative in the fight against the human mind to extinguish oneself. . .

The thing is mysterious..

Question: If they shot themselves in the bush where their bodies were found, would someone not have heard gunshots?
The locals in York Landing heard gunshots that were later said to be a RCMP communications tatic.
How far would the sound of a gunshot travel in an area like that?

 

[SnooperDuper]

Well, they already said during the press conference when Kam and Bryer's bodies were found that they're never, ever going to release Prof Dyck's cause of death.

No, there was no "never, ever". They are not releasing the COD at this time out of respect for the family but they will release it as part of the investigative report some time later...otherwise it would not be a very complete and transparent report and would not match the degree of information that would have come out at trial, would it?

The family simply wants their loved one to be thought of as a botanist, lecturer and kind and loved man, and not be known only for the way he died, and not be subject to endless speculation until the final report comes out to settle all the details.

 

[Moonlitnight]

Well, they already said during the press conference when Kam and Bryer's bodies were found that they're never, ever going to release Prof Dyck's cause of death.

They said that they would not do so as the family had requested them not to. This leads me to believe that it was something more than shooting that connected the three deaths. I doubt (again MOO) that the family would care if the public knew he was simply shot, revealing no more gory details. After all, L and C had been shot and what would it matter if the public knew he had been too, since it was perpetrated by the same people? ETA, I am now recalling that the fact L & C had been shot was revealed by L's father, and not the RCMP. Correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Schmoosh]

Ok. Let's put it this way. Say you were friends with one of these two suspects. So, not getting inside information that their families may be getting (if they even are). The police are like "Your friend murdered three people. But we're not going to tell you how they did it or why we think it was them that did it. Also your friend was found dead in the woods. But we may never tell you how they died, depends on if we feel like it or not. Instead we're going to drop coy hints like this is some kind of scavenger hunt." Wouldn't you be feeling like they're playing games at this point?

Yes, they are playing games; that's how they do it here, and for good reason. They'll release/seed just enough info to prompt further information from the public or seed info to the perps in case they're listening. And as a Canadian, I'm used to it and very glad they do it this way.