Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #13

[Deleted member 248860]

So what you're saying is, you expect they will never release any explanation of what evidence links Kam and Bryer to Lucas and Chynna's murders. And you're fine with that? I don't understand how anyone could be fine with that. You won't be able to ever convince me this lack of transparency is a good thing.

At the moment, we have no idea what the RCMP will say about that. The RCMP is highly unlikely to start talking about evidence, if they do, in an investigation that hasn’t even been completed.

 

[srper2]

If they killed themselves, they may have used a knife as we know Bryer owned one but do not know if they ever had a gun.

Is the main thing/only that's tying them to Dyck's murder the fact that they were driving Dyck's car? What else is absolutely, 100% known to us as fact that ties them to Dyck murder? The Fowler/Deese murders?

Well, so far nothing, LE are now saying that there is still the possibility of a 3rd person involved in the murders (reported in the Australian newspaper on 10/8/19)

 

[NJSleuth91]

We may also have different standards for transparency and trust, which is obviously not the case with LE south of the border. We have an automatic trust until it's proved undeserved up here while there is a distinct "question everything when it comes to LE actions" down there these days. Different countries in different social times.

Just because we don't see them disclose something does not mean they are trying to cover something up. That's all I'm saying.

And yet Canadians have been criticizing the RCMP left and right in this case, including on this board -- for example it was suggested greater transparency about the threat to the area may have saved Prof Dyck's life. Apparently this policy isn't going so well for you guys.

 

[missy1974]

So what you're saying is, you expect they will never release any explanation of what evidence links Kam and Bryer to Lucas and Chynna's murders. And you're fine with that? I don't understand how anyone could be fine with that. You won't be able to ever convince me this lack of transparency is a good thing.

I think it will be released eventually, but not any time soon.

I like the Florida "Sunshine law" LOL We get to see and hear and read everything for ourselves... no lawyer spin, no media spin, we can make up our own minds!

Our RCMP is very similar to the FBI down there... every American case that I have followed, if or once the FBI gets involved, we know that we are not going to hear anything from them and it's frustrating as an observer, so I can understand your feelings.

 

[Deleted member 248860]

It just seems like an open door to corruption and coverups, is all I'm saying.

This is going off the rails. There is no conspiracy/coverup and the RCMP in two provinces are not protecting the real killer. Nor did the RCMP kill McLeod and Schmegelsky.

The RCMP are also not in the business of satisfying the desire of US cable news for minute by minute updates no matter how premature or partial. Thank God.

 

[musicaljoke]

Ok. Let's put it this way. Say you were friends with one of these two suspects. So, not getting inside information that their families may be getting (if they even are). The police are like "Your friend murdered three people. But we're not going to tell you how they did it or why we think it was them that did it. Also your friend was found dead in the woods. But we may never tell you how they died, depends on if we feel like it or not. Instead we're going to drop coy hints like this is some kind of scavenger hunt." Wouldn't you be feeling like they're playing games at this point?

It's helpful to understand that items of evidence which are released into the public can be deemed inadmissible by the trial judge. Then it becomes much more important that evidence is held carefully in trust until the trial.

 

[srper2]

I’d like to suggest that you stop “extrapolating” about what you think happens in another country and just pay attention to what is happening. The article that you are talking about was not even published in Canada. There have since been posts, which you are ignoring, about death certificates and an RCMP officer’s statement that B.C. RCMP will make a statement this coming week.

As for “sunshine laws”, there is a difference between them and satisfying your curiosity.

At this point, I’m surprised that you aren’t complaining that the RCMP failed to invite the press to the autopsy.

There is no need for rudeness or dismissing other countries here. Two of the murder victims came from another country. The article is from the country of one of the murder victims, and, yes, the people of that country are still hoping for answers.

 

[Vern]

...

I like the Florida "Sunshine law" LOL We get to see and hear and read everything for ourselves... no lawyer spin, no media spin, we can make up our own minds!

Indeed; and don't forget to add of the stuff seen and read: often misinterpreted, often spun out of control, often minds made up as to guilt/innocence before a trial actually happens, often out of context etc etc etc

 

[musicaljoke]

Well I hope so but I wouldn't be surprised if they just never release anything.

If they are uncertain about the evidence regarding the suspects in any way, then I agree that the RCMP not release much information regarding their evidence. After all, another trial may be forthcoming with a different suspect.

If it's clear, case closed, no possibility for another theory, then we will likely hear some more details.

 

[missy1974]

It just seems like an open door to corruption and coverups, is all I'm saying.

I think others would agree with you....

And yet Canadians have been criticizing the RCMP left and right in this case, including on this board -- for example it was suggested greater transparency about the threat to the area may have saved Prof Dyck's life. Apparently this policy isn't going so well for you guys.

See... they do LOL Although, some have been more critical than others. I still think that they did a good job, in the sense that they did find them, even if they were dead. I don't think it means that we can't be a bit critical though, whether it was the alerts, the keys, the information flow. JMO

 

[Deleted member 248860]

There is no need for rudeness or dismissing other countries here. Two of the murder victims came from another country. The article is from the country of one of the murder victims, and, yes, the people of that country are still hoping for answers.

I certainly don’t take most of the Australian press seriously, especially the Murdoch press, and in this case the article in question ignores such basic things as death certificates and the RCMP’s intention to make a statement this week. No doubt what the paper published gets eyeballs though.

There is absolutely zero reason to believe that the RCMP won’t clear up what they believe transpired when they are ready and, where necessary, have finished investigating.

 

[Vern]

There is no need for rudeness or dismissing other countries here. Two of the murder victims came from another country. The article is from the country of one of the murder victims, and, yes, the people of that country are still hoping for answers.

And they will answer what they have to when they have wrapped up their investigation as always. The families will get answers they need; the public will perhaps not get the details they want. And, there is a distinct difference between the two.

I also didn't find the post rude as you did; it was given in response to persistent postings inferring coverups, corruption, incompetence etc based only on the fact that, here in Canada, relevant details get released only as required and then upon completion of investigations. That's our standard - it doesn't signal incompetance etc, so there's no need for some of the posts insinuating that either. Truly different countries with different societal standards as to releasable items.

And, to state again: our RCMP is subject to our Federal mechanisms for accountability etc. They don't get to just do, say whatever they want and run about the nation doing what they want unimpeded. The insinuation that we allow that in Canada is way off base and totally unfounded.

 

[NJSleuth91]

It's helpful to understand that items of evidence which are released into the public can be deemed inadmissible by the trial judge. Then it becomes much more important that evidence is held carefully in trust until the trial.

Yes which is why I didn't criticize the lack of information while there was a chance the two would be found alive. I thought it was prudent to not compromise potential juries. But now there will be no trial. So I don't know why even basic details of how the murders took place, or what links Kam and Bryer to them, are such a big secret now.

See... they do LOL Although, some have been more critical than others. I still think that they did a good job, in the sense that they did find them, even if they were dead. I don't think it means that we can't be a bit critical though, whether it was the alerts, the keys, the information flow. JMO

I still commend them for the search effort, actually finding these two against all odds, and nobody else getting hurt in the search effort. I do criticize them on the information flow, and the lack of timely alerts after Lucas and Chynna were found.

 

[JudgeJudi]

There likely would be footprints, and probably DNA evidence to put them at the scene and maybe even enough to reconstruct their movements. Is it possible that both suspects left home with camo jackets and one was left behind at the crime scene? A witness perhaps, dashcams ... personal items left behind, perhaps the murder weapon was found?

Plus fingerprints and/or ballistic evidence. I doubt they would have used the words "substantial evidence" unless what they did have was pretty compelling.

 

[Deleted member 248860]

Yes which is why I didn't criticize the lack of information while there was a chance the two would be found alive. I thought it was prudent to not compromise potential juries. But now there will be no trial. So I don't know why even basic details of how the murders took place, or what links Kam and Bryer to them, are such a big secret now.



I still commend them for the search effort, actually finding these two against all odds, and nobody else getting hurt in the search effort. I do criticize them on the information flow, and the lack of timely alerts after Lucas and Chynna were found.

There is no secret. There is an unfinished investigation.

As for alerts, that has been discussed to death. As far as I am concerned, the RCMP statement issued within hours of the initial deaths was crystal clear that the RCMP Major Crimes Unit was investigating two murders. Anybody reading or hearing about that alert would have to be brain dead to fail to understand that. Period.

And no, the Alaska Highway does not have overhead notice boards every few miles

 

[Spy Versus Spy]

Boris! The Damn Colonials are infighting again. Can we throw them some wild buffalo or something to shoot?

 

[srper2]

I certainly don’t take most of the Australian press seriously, especially the Murdoch press, and in this case the article in question ignores such basic things as death certificates and the RCMP’s intention to make a statement this week. No doubt what the paper published gets eyeballs though.

There is absolutely zero reason to believe that the RCMP won’t clear up what they believe transpired when they are ready and, where necessary, have finished investigating.

Considering that the cause of death for CD and LF was made public in Australia, I can believe that some of what is reported can be of help

There is no secret. There is an unfinished investigation.

As for alerts, that has been discussed to death. As far as I am concerned, the RCMP statement issued within hours of the initial deaths was crystal clear that the RCMP Major Crimes Unit was investigating two murders. Anybody reading or hearing about that alert would have to be brain dead to fail to understand that. Period.

And no, the Alaska Highway does not have overhead notice boards every few miles

Who said that the Alaska highway had overhead noticeboards every few miles?

 

[Vern]

See... they do LOL Although, some have been more critical than others. I still think that they did a good job, in the sense that they did find them, even if they were dead. I don't think it means that we can't be a bit critical though, whether it was the alerts, the keys, the information flow. JMO

Of course we can be critical. Many Canadians would love to see all the nitty gritty details as happens in some other countries and complain when they don't get them. That being said, bringing a distrust of one's own LE from one nation to another and assuming "distrust is automaticly warranted" here with our LE is just off and not wholly relatable to our own national experience.

In this case, I thought that the suspects got out of Dodge immediately after torching the RAV - the RCMP were pretty insistent that they believed them to still be in the area and for the locals there to remain very vigilant and alert. They were quite vocal about that the entire time to the locals and the public writ large. They were right.

 

[mrjitty]

Plus fingerprints and/or ballistic evidence. I doubt they would have used the words "substantial evidence" unless what they did have was pretty compelling.

Hey Judi

I agree this is the most likely explanation for what went down.

LE already had the rest of the crime spree down, and were looking for the Rav4 - which they knew the boys had - not just from witnesses but also from camera evidence etc etc not to mention the abandoned Dodge.

So when the Rav4 turns up, they are 100% laser focussed on getting back on the trail and protecting the public.

And finding the suspects and the murder weapon is the only game in town.

Scrabbling about for some keys in the dirt doesn't add anything when you already have the whole truck. The scene will keep. And the truck would no doubt be gone over in good time.

To be fair they did circle back later - which makes sense.

If this happens in a major city, then obviously we can expect a major forensics team on it same time, as resource to hand is different. But in a remote area, I get that prioritisation was on locating active killers.

 

[srper2]

Of course we can be critical. Many Canadians would love to see all the nitty gritty details as happens in some other countries and complain when they don't get them. That being said, bringing a distrust of one's own LE from one nation to another and assuming "distrust is automaticly warranted" here with our LE is just off and not wholly relatable to our own national experience.

In this case, I thought that the suspects got out of Dodge immediately after torching the RAV - the RCMP were pretty insistent that they believed them to still be in the area and for the locals there to remain very vigilant and alert. They were quite vocal about that the entire time to the locals and the public writ large. They were right.

Who has brought a "distrust of one's own LE from one nation to another" here? What I have seen is frustration from websleuths with the lack of information