Caylee Is Not Findable - FACT?

Shar824

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Egypt: I must ask have you ever been on a search like this? I have. Searchers faced the same daunting task finding Danielle vanDam. I remember searching for hours. We were allowed 4 hour shifts. One of our team members broke her foot. It was exhausting, and I kept thinking how in the heck are we ever going to find this child? Police were not searching at this time, the Laura Recovery Center was in charge of the search. They had an investigator I believe by the name of Garcia, who graphed out places for us to search by using a common driving route Westerfield MAY have taken when going out to the dunnes. It paid off but the ONLY reason she was found was because Westerfield left her exposed in a heap of trash on the side of the road. Now just imagine searching for a child over hundreds of miles here where you have bogs, allegators, and knowledge that there is a good chance she had been buried since Casey borrowed a shovel? It literally is like searching for a needle in a haystack and if you think TES has money left over from all their donnations, think again. All these searchers (in this case over 1500 of them) had to be fed, trucked to locations and all those from TES had to fly out and stay in motels. $70K goes by in the blink of an eye.

As a citizen I would rather that money go into further testing on evidence we do have. I agree with Tim that continuing this search is probably fruitless at this point unless another lead comes up. But you have NO idea of what is involved unless you have acutally been out to search for a child.

Correct me if I'm wrong on this but.........wasn't the food to feed the searchers supplied by internet sites (at least a major portion of it was from what I understand). And weren't a lot of the searchers being transported in personal vehicles to some of the search sites?? I'm not trying to argue about any of this, just trying to understand some of what you posted about the cost.
 

Nedthan Johns

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The searchers were fed & watered, not by TES but by private donors. The buses which moved searchers were donated. You can rent 3 bedroom condos in Orlando for less than a thousand a week and put up your main crew. I don't know about the motor home - someone said it was Tim's, someone else said it was donated. So what the truth is there we can only guess.

The expenses would have been the tent rentals which I was told was given to them 1/2 rate by the rental company. They had a generator which I assumed was theirs but could have been rented. ($300.00 a week) and the port a potties which I don't have a clue about the cost.

I just don't see the expenses myself. Can you fill me in a little more with details?


Not that I feel in any way that Tim should have to justify how he spent the money. He is a non-profit organization and they are watched very carefully. Apparently there are a few of you that have a bone to pick with Tim. Not sure how many members FLEW directly from Texas, gave up their paychecks to spend weeks there UNPAID to search for Caylee all while her GP's are spouting how people aren't doing enough and that searchers are looking in the "wrong" places. These people had to EAT morning, noon and night, (not all their food was donnated). All have to have hotel rooms. Do you think they all bunked in the cheapest condo? They have been searching for this child for 2 months now, you do the math. Plane tickets from Texas-Florida aren't cheap. All this for a over-publized case when there are litteraly hundreds of children out there that do not get ANY media attention. IMO Tim and his team would be better off donating that time to another case. They worked closely with LE and unfortunately turned up nothing. Excuse me... but they are not the reason Caylee went missing in the first case. How can ANYONE blame a man and his team for donnating HUNDREDS OF HOURS AND TIME?????
 

TURBOTHINK

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I think there is a lot of truth in the statement that she may not be findable.

It would take a miracle at this point, and they have happened in other cases. I say we should never give up hope. The reality is that if found the body would not be in much of a condition to show cause of death.

You never know. That is what most people believe but it is not necessarily true in all cases. If she is in a bog, she will be well preserved most likely. In Florida the ground water level sometimes helps preserve evidence particularly if she is buried in something or covered in something. It takes very little to show a cause of death many times and if she was hit in the head, the forensic anthropologists at U.T. most likely can tell you what the murder weapon was.
 

DesSands

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I think too many people put too much emphasis on "finding the body". Of course finding the body brings closure, but in this day and age with forensic science as advanced as it is we need to trust that testing will reveal what most likely happened to Caylee. Just last night I was watching a true life case in which the killer went to the trouble of dismembering his victims placing them in barrels and storing them for months, later dumping their bodies just to be convicted on a single drop of blood he missed while he scoured the storage shed with bleech, he later led authorites to the body. All this trouble murderers go through because they "think" they can out smart us. But NO ONE can outsmart DNA. I believe the "stain" in Casey's trunk will be her undoing. I believe forensics will be able to determine in fact it came from Caylee and they will also pin point that it came from her decomposing body.

I agree with this entirely, BUT then you have the likes of Kobi who is now twisting figures and possible evidence to create some doubt. He was saying to NG that MDNA is not totally accurate and that in 2% of the population, Mitrochodrial DNA is the same. Whoopie Doo, if you get a juror who doesn't understand, what he's really saying is it's accurate to the point of 98 %. That would be enough for me, but think OJ. Next we have Dr. Henry Lee, can't understand him most of the time, so it's easier to say Ah, well he's right. :rolleyes:
O/T Pretty good deal to even get these high priced people for the price of a $5,000 rubber check KC gave to JB. :mad:

To KC La Bella Vita - How's that workin for ya? :behindbar
I'd like to put that tag line underneath my name but don't know how? Anyone?
 

Celt1997

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All this for a over-publized case when there are litteraly hundreds of children out there that do not get ANY media attention. IMO Tim and his team would be better off donating that time to another case. They worked closely with LE and unfortunately turned up nothing. Excuse me... but they are not the reason Caylee went missing in the first case. How can ANYONE blame a man and his team for donnating HUNDREDS OF HOURS AND TIME?????

Respectfully snipped.

I have all the respect in the world for what Tim & TES do, but what you just commented on is what I have a problem with.

Tim said he needed to address other cases because of donations from those families. Well where does that leave the people who donated 1000's for him to search for Caylee?

Tim hyped his search in November to be the biggest thing, and that they would not leave until Caylee was found. How many people opened up their pockets even deeper after he made this statement, only to be told 2 days later that they were leaving?

Now after all this time Tim says that she is "unfindable."

I think Tim went about this in a way that leaves his organization open for criticism, and some people are calling him out on it.

Personally I hope he continues to do the work he does as TES just recently helped finding someone within the past few weeks, but I am left with a bit of a bad taste after all of the money that was donated to him to find Caylee, who now is "unfindable."
 

Valrico Analyzer

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This reminds me of the very old case of Tiffany Sessions from UF. I feel if we don't find her where we are now looking/searching OR where tips have led investigators, then we may never find her. I have feared for a long time that she tossed her in dumpster, or used the gas cans to transport her a considerable distance from Orlando so she wouldn't leave a record or be on video at a service station. Leaving the phone in Orlando, on, capturing the pings from a local tower....and I am unaware of any pings that have her stationary on one tower, with no incoming or outgoing talk activity....
that way she had plenty of time to bury her without being sighted.

Sad, but true. And there's no way she is ever gonna tell us. She is going to be pissed when she gets convicted and unless they post trial negotiate the DP (if she is even sentenced to it) is the only hope I see. Thats why I think it's so important to leave the DP option open as a negotiating chip.
 

Friday

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I think Casey may have thrown little Caylee in a dumpster.

If she did, I hope it was at Amscot and I hope it was caught on camera. That building has multiple surveillance cameras, and we've never seen anything in the docs about them which makes me think they may be a source of sensitive evidence being withheld from the public.

Bolded by me--

I mentioned to John Allen that when I watch Law & Order, Without A Trace etc, LE is able to track an automobile moving down the streets using tapes from all the various security cameras on banks, ATM's, buildings, traffic lights, etc. that the suspect drives past. I asked if that was just bunk.

He said it was absolutely true, but unfortunately NOT when a month has already passed because the tapes aren't saved for that long. I'd bet that's also true of Amscot's parking lot security camera system.

It's so upsetting that by managing to conceal her crime for an entire month, that lying, conniving, dingbat managed to gain all the advantages over LE. Grrrr
 

Friday

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I just don't understand WHY TM would say that. I know he has a lot of other cases he is probably working on and I'm certain more cooperative families, but why say she isn't findable? I guess what I'm saying is, what does he know that we don't know?

I don't know, but we do know this: Publicly, TM is a man of few words, and he's (frustratingly :) guarded about discussing any case (except when someone gets in his way and frustrates his efforts at J. Blanchard Park :)

He doesn't say anthing without a reason and since he enjoys LE's full confidence and trust, I figure he knows something. IMHO
 

TURBOTHINK

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Not that I feel in any way that Tim should have to justify how he spent the money. He is a non-profit organization and they are watched very carefully. Apparently there are a few of you that have a bone to pick with Tim. Not sure how many members FLEW directly from Texas, gave up their paychecks to spend weeks there UNPAID to search for Caylee all while her GP's are spouting how people aren't doing enough and that searchers are looking in the "wrong" places. These people had to EAT morning, noon and night, (not all their food was donnated). All have to have hotel rooms. Do you think they all bunked in the cheapest condo? They have been searching for this child for 2 months now, you do the math. Plane tickets from Texas-Florida aren't cheap. All this for a over-publized case when there are litteraly hundreds of children out there that do not get ANY media attention. IMO Tim and his team would be better off donating that time to another case. They worked closely with LE and unfortunately turned up nothing. Excuse me... but they are not the reason Caylee went missing in the first case. How can ANYONE blame a man and his team for donnating HUNDREDS OF HOURS AND TIME?????

I have no bone to pick with TES at all. I admire what they do day in and day out. It is not only physically hard, but emotionally hard also.

Yes, I believe they could have "bunked" in a condo. And some of the nicest ones in Orlando can be had for $1,000 a week. I don't see the point in renting 8-10 individual motel rooms at $150 a night. My point was good advance planning can cut the costs tremendously. This is not a vacation trip but a trip with a purpose. WHY would you need a plush motel room when you are only there to shower and sleep if you are really searching? We spent almost no time at our condo because we searched from daylight to dark every day we were there.

I will give you an example of cost planning. We do a cost analysis on each trip.

We (as did TES) had enough notice to get cheap airline tickets. There were 4 of us and 4 dogs. We spent a little over $600.00 for ALL of our tickets. Our condo was donated by a company I work for, so that expense was covered.

We averaged about $40.00 per day on food per person. Breakfast & dinner, as we took sandwiches for lunch (prepared in our condo) so we did not have to go out of the area we were searching. We ate full breakfasts and steak or seafood most nights.

We were there 9 days at a total cost of less than $2,000. If you add in if we had to have paid for a condo that would be $3,000. The cost would have been $755.00 per person INCLUDING lodging. Without lodging it would have been about $500.00 per person for 9 days. That did not include our rental SUV, which because we shopped around only cost $353.00 for the time we were there.

If they had good advance planning they could have done the same. They only brought 14 people if what I was told was correct. Even if they each spent $1,000 a person that is only $14,000. I gave you the story on the rentals and things. Now you tell me where $100,000 went in 1 1/2 days for TES.
 

trac

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As I said before - why would Tim want to help the A's when:

You also have to remember the family of Natalee Holloway - they are appreciative and humble - they are gracious and honest - they are not rude and publicly thank and help TES

What does Tim have to deal with when he's searching for Caylee? A family who is rude, condencending, and downright mean - they lie and back stab - they condone the actions of Casey and refuse to help TES - they do what they can to discredit TES which hurts Tim and his business of helping others

Which search would you rather do???

I would love for TES to find Caylees remains and say 'I told you so' this isn't a case of 'I told you so' it's a case of a poor child abused and seemed to never have a chance at life she so justly deserved
 

Friday

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SNIP:

I would PAY AL to visit Casey.

H*ll, I'm to the point where I'd almost PAY CASEY to tell what really happened to little Caylee and put us all out of our misery! :crazy:
 

not_my_kids

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I wonder what the statistics are on missing people that are never found.


High, very high. But then again, they are still finding unidentified bodies from the 40's and 50's so it depends on the defintion of never.
 

newsjunkie

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In regards to TES expenses: Don't they rent sonar equipment and the like? What about the horses you hear about on searches? Aren't there other factors that are not being considered in this discussion?
 

kageykaren

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I feel TM staement means : The public may never find her, because LE knows where the spot is and may have collected what remains were out there, leaving nothing to find. I can't wait till trial to see what unfolds. I always say, " The quiet confidence LE portrays speaks volumns.
 

faefrost

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“She's going to be one of them that's unfortunately not going to be findable."

Given repeated comments such as this when Caylee is brought up.... i.e.; Caylee was a cold case when LE was called (just 30 days), and now MORE of a cold case. And MANY statements even about a month ago that she won't be found....... Why are these adamant/definitive/repetitive statements being made constantly? Do some, for instance, TES, know something we don't know?

Because Laura Miller's body was found about 1-1/2 YEARS after she went missing. I'm sure many involved also thought she was unfindable after all that time.

Is there a real reason behind the disheartening comments? Inside info? Or is this just too much of a PITA or 'not good' publicity? What is going on here?


I think that everyone is reading way too much into this statement. It is not that Caylee will never be found. It is that with the information available to the searchers, the lack of a choerant search starting point, and the anticipated state of any remains, it is statistically improbable that she will be located by any organized ground search.

At this point her remains if at ground level will resemble normal woodland ground clutter. If buried the traces of turned earth will have faded, and if sunk in water they will be mired in silt.

Without either a stroke of luck, such as a random hiker finding some clearly identifiable item, to narrow the search area, or KC coming clean and providing real info on the bodies location, then Caylee will not be found.

It doesn't matter how many voluteers you put in the field looking. They do not know what they are looking for. they don't know what it looks like, and will never be able to make the mental leap from childs body to bones that look like sticks or small flashes of color from clothing. At this stage she could only be found by trained professionals. And even then only if a very narrow search area is defined. One measured in hundreds of feet, not miles.
 

TURBOTHINK

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Not that I feel in any way that Tim should have to justify how he spent the money. He is a non-profit organization and they are watched very carefully. Apparently there are a few of you that have a bone to pick with Tim. Not sure how many members FLEW directly from Texas, gave up their paychecks to spend weeks there UNPAID to search for Caylee all while her GP's are spouting how people aren't doing enough and that searchers are looking in the "wrong" places. These people had to EAT morning, noon and night, (not all their food was donnated). All have to have hotel rooms. Do you think they all bunked in the cheapest condo? They have been searching for this child for 2 months now, you do the math. Plane tickets from Texas-Florida aren't cheap. All this for a over-publized case when there are litteraly hundreds of children out there that do not get ANY media attention. IMO Tim and his team would be better off donating that time to another case. They worked closely with LE and unfortunately turned up nothing. Excuse me... but they are not the reason Caylee went missing in the first case. How can ANYONE blame a man and his team for donnating HUNDREDS OF HOURS AND TIME?????

I forgot this in my other post - Tickets from Texas to MCO are $199.00 roundtrip if bought in advance.
 

TURBOTHINK

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I feel TM staement means : The public may never find her, because LE knows where the spot is and may have collected what remains were out there, leaving nothing to find. I can't wait till trial to see what unfolds. I always say, " The quiet confidence LE portrays speaks volumns.

I am beginning to believe this is right.
 

DesSands

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Correct me if I'm wrong on this but.........wasn't the food to feed the searchers supplied by internet sites (at least a major portion of it was from what I understand). And weren't a lot of the searchers being transported in personal vehicles to some of the search sites?? I'm not trying to argue about any of this, just trying to understand some of what you posted about the cost.


Something is not right with TM. Mark Klaas mentioned on NG that TM couldn't even feed his searchers. I was shocked to hear him say anything bad about TM.
But IMO TM is angry or having his hands tied by LE as to whre to search coupled with the ungratefulness of the A's has gotten to him too. Not to mention LP. Trying to figure this one out too. What He has said and accomplished are two different things. :confused:
 

Friday

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We need to remember that we aren't looking for the 3 foot tall, chubby little girl we see in pictures, and we're not looking for an adult's large skeleton either. Here entire skeleton--IF it was found intact--would fit into a box not much larger than a shoe box.

As far as hoping to find a tooth of hers in hundreds of square miles of woods, fields, swamps, parks, secluded roads, etc., the reality is I couldn't find a baby tooth if I asked a friend to drop it in the one-block square field across the street.

Please know that I'm not being argumentative, I'm crushed at the idea of not finding her. I'm also infuriated at being outwitted by the vicious little nitwit who is Caylee's mother.

:blowkiss:
 

TURBOTHINK

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In regards to TES expenses: Don't they rent sonar equipment and the like? What about the horses you hear about on searches? Aren't there other factors that are not being considered in this discussion?

I really don't know about the sonar rentals. I would assume since they did this as a profession they would own that equipment. LE would have some available for them I am sure as they always do in other searches and Orlando most likely uses that often because of the terrain.

If they brought the horses from Texas, then there would be the gas expense as I am sure they have a horse trailer since they use them all the time. It is possible people in the area also loaned them horses. That is done often in searches. You have to board them and feed them if you bring your own and I have no idea what that costs as I am not a horse searcher. Many times that will be donated by local stables.

With good advance planning, they most likely could get airboats and things donated by marinas. If they rented everything, that is not good planning as there are other ways which most search teams use.

I just question all the TV hype for donations and collecting $100,000 + and then leaving in 1 1/2 days. I know they did end up staying a little longer when the public outcry was so huge, but I just don't get it.

I know there are some here who have asked for an accounting from TES and have never received it. All non-profits books have to be open to the public and I don't understand that either.
 
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