Discussion in 'Travis Alexander Trial - The State vs. Jodi Arias' started by nursebeeme, May 2, 2013.
I loved when he made this point.
I agree with all you said. I gave him 5 stars! He is great!
I'll try.... and to be brief as possible.
A large majority of the people on this forum started the trial having already decided a guilty as charged verdict. So for those people, Martinez closing spoke to their convictions.
The Jury did not go into the case the same way - nor should they.
Just prior to the close - the jury were given specific instructions on how to decide the case (based on facts and evidence and witness testimony).
From that perspective - here are the very weak points I saw in Martinez close:
1. The Forensic facts of this case are beyond strong, beyond compelling AGAINST self defense. ... AND
2. The human factors are different (they usually are). While you have to do some pretty amazing acrobatics to stretch in a "self defence" theory - they will compel some to sympathize with, even identify with the defendant. ...SO
3. Martinez spent too much of the close focused on character assassination and mocking the defendant for what some might see as normal circumstance.
How many women fell in love in their teens or were willing to toss their future away on some boy they believed in - only to find it wasn't going to work, or he was bad news or unfaithful? It's young heartbreak and teens can be really stupid about that sort of thing.
The Jury are largely in their 40's - so we can also assume that most of them have children in their late teens and early 20's (I have 3 teens at home).
If there is even one woman who went through something similar or a parent with a teen who went through something similar - the worst thing to do is to slam that type of behavior and mock Jodi for having that happen to her.
It's immaterial to the case.
4. Rather than going over the evidence - just the evidence - piecing it together - showing how it simply could not be self defense, and presenting ALL the circumstances that support pre-meditation, Martinez weaved a story that sounded more like venomous personal hatred for the defendant.
5. All it takes is for one juror to personally related to one of the human factors. (ie: "that" just happened to MY daughter, or, I once lost MY phone cord under the seat, ...etc). That juror will then be more likely to relate to the defendant, be personally affronted by Martinez - and it's a hung jury.
Mr Martinez may come across to some as a hero, passionate about justice - but to others he comes across as rigidly judgmental and lacking self-control.
There is every possibility that the jury will contain people representing both opinions on him.
I think he failed, completely, to present a balance close and to focus the jury on the facts.
If the Anthony Prosecution team had this case - I suspect it would have ended in March with a guilty verdict.
I intensely dislike wilmott, at least in this trial. I liken her style to that of an entitled mean highschooler. Juvenile, boorish and unprofessional is how I see her.
I fully embrace our great judicial system! Every defendant gets their day in court, however, that doesn't entitle the defense to sink as low as/lower than their clients.
There was no defense presented in this case, imo. All the DT could do is attempt to ravage and annihilate Travis' good name. What an abomination; what a crime in and of itself.
Mr. Martinez was excellent yesterday, dismantling brick by brick the unconscionable DT performance. And because of his closing, today I'm unusually tranquil.
Rock on, JM!!!!!
I thought it was very, very good. Told a story. If Juan would use a few bullet notes on a card, I think he'd be even better. But that's not his style, and he's awfully good as he is, so perhaps I shouldn't criticize, lol.
As an example, I love that he brought out that Travis could almost certainly see Jodi behind him when he was standing at the sink, while she was stabbing him and he was bleeding and spraying blood. My sense was he forgot to add that in, and circled back to add it once he was on to the "chase" down the hallway. But that's a pretty minor criticism.
Remarks that stood out to me:
- Stampeding wildebeasts.
- The "rainbow" of smeared blood from an upright, and staggering/ fleeing Travis
- Nothing is EVER Jodi's fault
- Stalking, stalking, stalking
- Jodi's claims she brought the pic CD's (even if she never did, or the CD doesn't exist, Jodi herself claimed she brought it
- Gas can lies and elaborate plans.
- $12.96 is the price of premeditation
- Rental car
- Pointing out ALV's "apologist" agenda and "mistruths"
- Travis' vulnerability and how she stripped his dignity during the murder, and now with pedophile and bad Mormon allegations
THAT SMART MAN!!! It hit me today. Throughout his closing remarks, he is also highlighting facets of Jodi's character that support the BPD (borderline Personality Disorder).
Now he can really hit on that and her personality traits that make her, not a killer due to passion, but focus on he traits that make her a killer that PLANS during his next closing.
For me, I thought he did a great job piecing it together. I knew nothing about this case; in fact, I thought the defendant was the victim for the longest time.
I stumbled upon the trial when nurmi was doing his direct of her. I had no opinion either way. As she told her tale, I thought "ok, this is plausible".
Then, JM began his cross, and I became convinced of her absolute guilt. I didn't like JM the first few times I watched him, but his threading soon began to form a pattern. When he was done, the picture was complete for me.
Respectfully, the prosecution is not the reason this trial has gone on interminably. That's the DT's doing, and their defense is a farce.
Katie-L, I do hear what you are saying although in this specific case I don't think it applies. I hadn't heard of this case until very recently and became very engrossed in it so I would say I came to the trial thinking she was guilty as the trial had already started. As I read the facts and watched the testimony it became crystal clear to me. The only bias I had was 29 stab wounds and a gun shot doesn't sound like self defense.
I will also say I have been in a REAL emotional abusive relationship with occasional minor physical abusive moments due to his drinking. I can relate to not telling people. People knew though something wasn't right. His parents helped me. That is not the case with her. She straight up made this stuff up. The journals I have reflect what actually happened in my life and collaborate the times I went through. I don't understood why she wrote if there was nothing to write. I wrote to get the thoughts out of my head.
I think had any other prosecutor gotten this there would be a chance Jodi would walk. You can see it in her face as the days go by, especially on his cross with her. She was not prepared for Juan to pick apart every detail around and around to show how much of a liar she is, how she isn't willing to give an answer if she can see where he is going. JM showed the jury she isn't meek. She came off as callous and wasteful of there time, playful even during a murder trial. After a day or two on cross it finally sunk in that she wasn't going to be able to gloss over the story like she could with Nurmi and her so called experts.
I was only able to watch a bit of the closing due to work. Can someone please give me a brief summary of each closing video 1, 2, and 3. I'm watching part of 2 know and I take it that is where he goes over the murder. Thanks!
Welcome to our group Bitz and Redbud! Looking forward to hearing more from you.
I would agree 100% there. I also watch the entire trial without any preconceived ideas. There is just no way this is self defense.
I also don't believe the DT is aiming for that. It's just their claim for the "not guilty" position. Since the close of Jodi's testimony - I've been convinced the DT is aiming for a lesser included charge.
Sorry to hear about that. Hope you're healing.
There is a point where the proof of battering just fails. It isn't there. Proof of verbal abuse is abundant though.
I believe the prosecutor would have served his own case better had he conceded to some of this, even used it to further his own case - rather than dismissing everything. The theory that Travis did absolutely nothing wrong in this relationship - isn't going to be seen as reasonable to every juror. With that presentation, all it takes is one juror to say "hey, but she was verbally abused" and the focus changes to the Defense.
There are men who don't treat some or all of the women in their lives very well. Men who are womanizers, who lead women on, who talk behind their backs. That doesn't equal shooting someone in the face, stabbing them 27 times and slashing their throat. Even if there was some threat. The lack of evidence of physical threats, not withstanding, a shot to the face might be defensible. Subsequently (or in advance of) stabbing 27 times, slashing the throat - there simply is no way to wiggle that into self defense.
I think we've reached the same conclusions on the facts.
The "pick apart every detail" strategy doesn't read the same to everyone. Especially when believable details are picked apart with the same ferocity as the unbelievable ones. Doesn't it then become difficult to distinguish which details should be discarded and which should be kept?
I do believe that a more level-headed, even-tempered prosecutor could have obliterated the defense theories completely, by conceding to some and fighting others - in a way that allows the jury to reach a decision without emotional involvement / committment to anything but the facts.
...but I guess all we can do is wait and see what the jury decides. I do hope it's not a hung jury.
I marveled at JA demeanor, she appeared frustrated, all the while trying to keep a nonchalant composure, muttering things under her breath, whispering to JW, drawing/writing, or whatever it is she does as she bows her head down when she doesn't like what is being said, does not want to listen, or appear not to, but let her fool you not, she listened to every syllable, as Juan slowly pealed off her mask as he told them all about her sordid ornate(<--Juan's adjective, lol) lies and murderous plan, priceless.
Precisely at the time Juan was explaining jury instructions/murder 1st degree, JA put on her glasses and stared intently at the jurors, right on cue, what a creepy gal.
Not much else to add that hasn't been said 1000x on here, but Juan's closing was succinct, poignant and superior in more ways that I can describe. Can't wait to hear his final words.
I am so glad Justice for Travis Victor Alexander is very close now, the fat lady is warming up her vocal chords.
I thought it was brilliant!
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The prosecutors in the Anthony case did not put on as strong a case as Juan did, and Casey didn't testify.
I strongly disagree with you. My responses in red.Travis is the one who had his character assassinated by the defendant.
My husband and I laughed when Juan was talking about Jodi spying on him with the other woman on Travis' couch and said "it's not HER fault she has vision" I don't know why we thought that was so hilarious. Loved his sprinkling of sarcasm!
i think he did a great job. two things i wish he would have said.
-she couldn't kill him right away because there were other people in the house, which would mean she would either get caught or have to kill them too.
-she didn't kill him when his back was turned because she wanted to look him in the eye (and she could have grabbed the knife when his back was turned).
-she had to have cut her finger at the scene as her blood was mixed with his, her lies about her cut hand are definitely LIES because of this.
He's one of the best prosecutors I have ever seen. I think the man is seriously brilliant.
I think he knows his jury and knows how to bring it home to them.
I would have liked him to add a couple of things, though:
1. For some people, the fact that Travis had sex with jodi that day bothers them a lot - "He can't have been afraid of her or stalked by her." Now that really has nothing to do with whether this was premeditated murder or not but some bozo could stretch it and create problems. I would have wanted to say the following if it was my closing:
"We don't know how jodi got into Travis' house that day. We don't know if she was invited in or just sneaked in and stood there staring until Napolean barked. We know they had sex, though. And some of you may ask why a man who is afraid of a woman would have sex with her. Well, you've seen jodi try to manipulate Travis' friends and family, try to manipulate the media, try to manipulate Detective Flores, and try to manipulate you. You have seen her acting skills, her ability to speak softly and sweetly and to pretend to be upset. You have seen how easily and well she lies. So you can imagine, I'm sure, how the woman Travis called a "sociopath", wormed her way into his home one last time.
And we know, based on the words of his ex girlfriends and even on the defendant's own words, that he was a nice guy, a good guy. I think we can venture to guess then, that he was a forgiving one as well. And so, despite the fact that she was the worst thing that ever happened to him and that he feared her stalking behavior, he likely ignored his gut and let her in, that one last time on that fateful day.
And we've heard a lot from jodi. We've heard her talk a lot about her proclivities and we've even heard her in action when she was taping Travis without his knowledge. So it is no leap to imagine that once she wormed her way into that home, where she intended to murder a human being, she took her clothes off and attempted to arouse that human being. And it;s also no stretch to imagine that that young man, in the face of such a sudden invitation, was able to put his fears aside for a moment and to ignore his gut in order to engage in what had always been a pleasurable activity with jodi.
But, little did he know, that activity was one of the last things he would ever be able to engage in on this earth. Little did he know that jodi's seduction was merely a means to get him naked and vulnerable and off-guard, so she could execute her horrible plan."
Something like that.
2. If she brought the gun, why didn't she use it first. That also bothers some people. I think he did a good job of saying she brought a gun AND a knife and intended to use both, but I would have wanted to say that murders don't usually go as planned and for whatever reason, she might have intended to shoot him first but changed her mind. Maybe she wanted to see him suffer first. Because we just know that after that text communication from Travis, she was seething. And maybe once she got there and realized he wasn't going to change his ind about her, marry her, take her to Cancun, she decided to make his pain worse.
Otherwise, I think his closing was about perfect. Oh, and stumbling over words now and then doesn't change that. He's not a machine. Brilliant, but not a machine.
Juan was absolutely Juanderful...and now...
For JA it is simply:
I'm upgrading my original pretty great to 5 stars =A+
He brought out some tears in me with the final closing!
One thing I loved amoung others, is how he explained why he would now refer to the accused as Jodi Ann Arias, for anyone that might not understand the previous maam'!
The poll shows that four, (4) Websleuth members chose to vote, "It was not so good."