CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct 2012 - #12

[NC Analyzer]

LOL...in the time it takes to respond to one post, 4 other people have already said the same thing!

 

[thess]

This is tangental to the barbed-wire fence issue:

It took me a while (and lots of thread-reading) before I realized I didn't know the precise definition of the word 'culvert'. I thought it meant the ditch-type area extending from the drainage pipe. However, apparently it actually means the drainage pipe itself. So now I'm confused if there was evidence *inside* the actual pipe? In one of the aerial shots there is a red free-standing floodlight set up at at a right-angle facing/directly beside the pipe opening, separate from the overhead firetruck floods. It's somewhat distant (15'?--the person who mentioned being at the site would know) from the main area where we saw them working with the stretcher and presumably the remains.

 

[izzyblizzy]

I've only been on boards of this type for about 72 hours total. (Other than alt.true-crime back in the early 2000s, which was a very different experience.) But like I said, I'm sure I've read his quotes on some other cases, it's just been so long since I've had a case really engross/horrify me like this (I think it was Samantha Runnion).

I just got engrossed in this case on here on Monday ... even though I apparently signed up years ago! (don't remember why). But I have heard him on TV. Seems like he is all over the place on cable news type stations.

 

[pearl]

My opinion is that Clint Van Zandt probably "unofficially" knows more about this case than most other people who are not directly involved with the investigation. I think his opinion was probably sought by LE so they could benefit from his insight. I also think other excellent former profilers probably have been consulted also. The profile created by the current "official" FBI profiler will be the one included in LE paperwork. This crime is so horrendous that I think LE is using every single source of information they can get. Let us pray that justice is swift. I just don't know if catching this person(s) will be justice. I think what happened to this child is about the most horrible crime I have ever heard of. Jessica's killer can be caught and punished but I feel even the death penalty for this crime will not be justice. This crime is pure evil walking the earth. I apologize for the rant.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

As far as the TV stuff goes, I would imagine it's probably a pretty profitable business to be in, especially post-Caylee. (Not to be too cynical; they might as well get paid for all those years of dealing with that stuff. But I also don't watch any NG-type TV coverage of this stuff so I may be imagining it somewhat more sensationalized than it is. Fear and shock sell, after all.)

Post-Caylee? I can think of many cases that were huge in the media (and on TV, obviously), going back to the '90s...It's been a lucrative business for a while now.

 

[msthinksalot]

It could be similar to the WY case, where they were watching someone for a few days and moved in when there was a threat. LE could be watching several people around the clock. No need to move in yet. I predict they could watch for a few weeks and could move in around Halloween. Too much of a risk that if they think the guy did it, he would strike then.

The WY suspect fits the profile of these perps to a T, even down to the fact that his ex wife alleged in her custody petition that he killed her pet cat. The perp in this case will be the same. Normal guy to outsiders but those on inside, like wife, ex wife, etc. will have noticed something or he would have harmed animals in the past. This might be his first time killing a human but he probably would have dismembered animals in the past and escalated to children.

On the other hand, Many of these perps, like Gardiner in CA, killer of Somer Thompson in FL, are often troubled isolated people. Then there is a second type like Bundy, etc who are much more "normal." Usually it seems like these child perps often had SOME trouble in the past. People like Bundy or Ridgeway usually attacked women.

Slightly OT... I found and read the ex-wife's blog before she made her most recent post, about JS. I really feel heartbroken for her and her children, too; as a mother, I cannot imagine having to explain to my children that sort of reality about their father (assuming he is found guilty, of course). I suspect there's a lot of stuff about him that isn't so charming that she has had to deal with over the years. I can imagine how in light of this she may be seeing certain things in a very different light, a sort of anti-aha! moment where instead you are a little sickened because your entire world has just turned topsy-turvy.

I'm fencesitting about whether this guy has a partner. On the one hand, I think that if he had a partner and even kids, that it would give him an "in" on how to talk to children in a convincing way... even more so if his kid/s had a relationship of some kind to Jessica. Or maybe he used to have a partner but is recently separated but is generally known around the neighborhood... and thus, wouldn't have been alarming to Jessica.

On the other hand, a single guy who is incapable of sustaining a relationship with women his own age also seems to fit so well. I'm thinking sexual dysfunction and emotional unavailability problems, and probably an addiction to *advertiser censored* of some kind, not necessarily kiddie *advertiser censored*, but tastes that are definitely not mainstream and probably involving humiliation and degradation. That he took it to the extreme end that he did, rather than "killing softly", makes me lean a little more in the single-guy-with-female-issues angle... FWIW.

 

[NC Analyzer]

This is tangental to the barbed-wire fence issue:

It took me a while (and lots of thread-reading) before I realized I didn't know the precise definition of the word 'culvert'. I thought it meant the ditch-type area extending from the drainage pipe. However, apparently it actually means the drainage pipe itself. So now I'm confused if there was evidence *inside* the actual pipe? In one of the aerial shots there is a red free-standing floodlight set up at at a right-angle facing/directly beside the pipe opening, separate from the overhead firetruck floods. It's somewhat distant (15'?--the person who mentioned being at the site would know) from the main area where we saw them working with the stretcher and presumably the remains.

I noticed that myself, but it is also one of the endless debates that are ongoing. LE never provided an exact location, but it was evident that the body was a bit further up from the culvert when it was removed from the scene. Some are saying "staged" but I would think it would be difficult to stage a small body part and it would take a bit more to draw that conclusion. It is also possible that she was placed in the culvert and later moved/dragged by wildlife or LE personnel to examine closer. She may have been found several hours before word leaked out to the press, hence, the possibility that LE moved her as it would be difficult to examine the remains inside of a culvert. It was also reported that a black trash bag was found "near" her remains, but no additional information was provided with that statement.

 

[thess]

Post-Caylee? I can think of many cases that were huge in the media (and on TV, obviously), going back to the '90s...It's been a lucrative business for a while now.

I have to admit that I didn't actually watch TV during the 90s at all (I was too into the new-fangled internet) and I basically only watch scripted dramas now. I also tuned out of the news entirely for a couple of years during the height of the Caylee stuff because my Mom had cancer (she recovered) and I couldn't take real-world bad news. My impression had always been that NG's popularity (and "missing white girl" media hysteria) exploded due to Caylee and I guess the Aruba girl, but that's a secondhand impression at best.

Ugh, getting off-topic now, stopping.

 

[otto]

Thank you very much for trying Deann.

Could you possibly upload the first sequence her or on youtube or some other website?

I really would like to re-watch the original sequence, because I´m 99.99 % sure that I saw this odd sequence.

I think that family and police have a good reason for not wanting all the photos from Jessica's memorial online ... perhaps because they don't want the perp to enjoy the photos.

 

[cluciano63]

My opinion is that Clint Van Zandt probably "unofficially" knows more about this case than most other people who are not directly involved with the investigation. I think his opinion was probably sought by LE so they could benefit from his insight. I also think other excellent former profilers probably have been consulted also. The profile created by the current "official" FBI profiler will be the one included in LE paperwork. This crime is so horrendous that I think LE is using every single source of information they can get. Let us pray that justice is swift. I just don't know if catching this person(s) will be justice. I think what happened to this child is about the most horrible crime I have ever heard of. Jessica's killer can be caught and punished but I feel even the death penalty for this crime will not be justice. This crime is pure evil walking the earth. I apologize for the rant.

Even if he does have sources and gets info...I believe he is paid to say whatever is most "TV-worthy", i.e. sensational, ratings-grabbing. What better to say than "killer is experienced" "likely to kill again." Both may be true, but without a suspect, who knows? I am leery of profilers, though, so that is just me. They generally say the most obvious things, things I thought of right away by my own self, lol.

 

[sassysleuth]

If you are talking about Clint VZ....he comments on dozens of cases. I have heard him numerous times make comments and statements that are completely WRONG and in conflict with the known facts of the case about which he is speaking. One thing to note about "former" FBI profilers. There is almost always a REASON that they are FORMER.

jmoo

I initially thought the same thing about his former status, but considering his age I'm sure he's former FBI because he chose to retire.

 

[MidwestMama]

The date is specific because that was the last day she was seen.
Probably the last day she ate and LE LIKELY knows she was
Killed soon after she was kidnapped.
:moo:

My father in law died at home alone. It was unsure if he passed away the afternoon/night of Dec 5 or the morning of Dec. 6. The cororner in cases like this (at least in my state) choose the last day the person was seen alive, which in his case was Dec 5.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I have to admit that I didn't actually watch TV during the 90s at all (I was too into the new-fangled internet) and I basically only watch scripted dramas now. I also tuned out of the news entirely for a couple of years during the height of the Caylee stuff because my Mom had cancer (she recovered) and I couldn't take real-world bad news. My impression had always been that NG's popularity (and "missing white girl" media hysteria) exploded due to Caylee and I guess the Aruba girl, but that's a secondhand impression at best.

Ugh, getting off-topic now, stopping.

Sorry to hear about your mom. I am glad to hear she is doing better.

Nancy Grace's popularity probably exploded with Caylee. Her show started in 2005, so it's pretty recent. There are tons of high-profile cases from before that. The media focusing on a certain type of victim has been going on since the 90s: Polly Klaas, Nicole Brown Simpson, JonBenet Ramsey, Chandra Levy, Danielle Van Dam, Elizabeth Smart, Natalee Holloway, Laci Peterson...

 

[miabellamoure]

Regarding the discovery of Jessica's backpack & water bottle...has it been said if the backpack and the water bottle were left on the side walk inside the "brown paper bag" that has been shown on the news?

I was just wondering because if so, it reminded me of those CSI evidence bags we saw used in the CA case.

It would seem odd that those items would be left in one of those style paper bags vs. just setting the items un-bagged on the side walk.

 

[hollyblue]

I was wondering the same Otto...



Scroll down at this link to a photo of a man at the memorial site. The angle shows how high the bottom barb wire is from the ground. I am posting just for a perspective on the height of the wire from the ground. I don't think in the dark, and mindful that a car might approach at any time, that the perp would risk going under the fence. IMO

http://www.denverpost.com/commented/ci_21785992?source=commented-

I have also been wondering if the perp did not know this road and used the abandoned cluster of buildings and sheds as landmarks to remember or mark where he disposed of the remains...

The remains were very small, imo, and could have been pushed under the fence very easily. Especially if they were placed where they were found, right next to it. From that photo it shows how high the fence was and even an average height adult would have a problem dropping something over it. I guess they could toss something over it tho.

I think the perp knew the road and the area. I'm not a local, but it may have been too dark to see any of the buildings at all if you didn't know they were there.

 

[Theforeigner]

Is there a possibility that your server or computer had a hiccup?

When I'm watching videos on Youtube, mostly music, I occasionally get a short period of what I call static. Either the image blurs and the sound is okay or both image and sound go random for a second.

In my case, I know it's because I have a bit of a glitchy connection.

No, it wasn't any kind of "hickup".

 

[izzyblizzy]

Regarding the discovery of Jessica's backpack & water bottle...has it been said if the backpack and the water bottle were left on the side walk inside the "brown paper bag" that has been shown on the news?

I was just wondering because if so, it reminded me of those CSI evidence bags we saw used in the CA case.

It would seem odd that those items would be left in one of those style paper bags vs. just setting the items un-bagged on the side walk.

That was the evidence bag that LE used to bag the backpack. It wasn't in the bag when it was found. It still isn't clear whether the water bottle was inside the backpack or in a side pocket, etc. though.

 

[thess]

Sorry to hear about your mom. I am glad to hear she is doing better.

Nancy Grace's popularity probably exploded with Caylee. Her show started in 2005, so it's pretty recent. There are tons of high-profile cases from before that. The media focusing on a certain type of victim has been going on since the 90s: Polly Klaas, Nicole Brown Simpson, JonBenet Ramsey, Chandra Levy, Danielle Van Dam, Elizabeth Smart, Natalee Holloway, Laci Peterson...

Oh god, Polly Klaas. I forgot about her, that was just about as bad as Samantha Runnion and Jessica. At least both Polly and Samantha's killers were caught, and I think it makes me believe Jessica's will be.

I was actually working at a major east coast newspaper at the time of Chandra Levy so I remember that media coverage all too well (then again, politician and all). Don't recognize Danielle Van Dam from that list, will have to look it up.

 

[Ladylub]

I noticed that myself, but it is also one of the endless debates that are ongoing. LE never provided an exact location, but it was evident that the body was a bit further up from the culvert when it was removed from the scene. Some are saying "staged" but I would think it would be difficult to stage a small body part and it would take a bit more to draw that conclusion. It is also possible that she was placed in the culvert and later moved/dragged by wildlife or LE personnel to examine closer. She may have been found several hours before word leaked out to the press, hence, the possibility that LE moved her as it would be difficult to examine the remains inside of a culvert. It was also reported that a black trash bag was found "near" her remains, but no additional information was provided with that statement.

BBM Wildlife moving her body has crossed my mind. I thought about LE moving it but isn't the culvert on the other side of the fence? If so they would have to move her over the fence possibly messing with evidence. I guess they could move the body but it seems like cross contamination would be an issue if they moved the body from the culvert to the flatter ground and then to the coroners offices.

 

[MidwestMama]

Regarding the discovery of Jessica's backpack & water bottle...has it been said if the backpack and the water bottle were left on the side walk inside the "brown paper bag" that has been shown on the news?

I was just wondering because if so, it reminded me of those CSI evidence bags we saw used in the CA case.

It would seem odd that those items would be left in one of those style paper bags vs. just setting the items un-bagged on the side walk.

The media reported a few days after backpack discovery that the bkpk was on the sidewalk. When finder spoke to police they asked him to place it in a paper bag and stay by it until they arrived.