GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #61

[Steelhead]

I wish people would stop undermining others opinions and accussing them of being this or that regardless what their opinions are. Most of the cases we follow on WS are full of horrible acts that are hard to hear and read and it makes it even harder when there’s offensive banter on the threads. I enjoy hearing others opinions even when I don’t agree with them. Just because we don’t agree with an opinion or view it doesn’t mean the opinions of others are inadequate.
jmo

WORD

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

Are all clocks in interrogation rooms that loud? Is that part of the interrogation routine i.e. time is running out, time to fess up, etc.

Idk but it would work with me if it was, lol.

 

[gitana1]

BBM
Hasn't NK been through enough? Can't we all just leave her alone? Probably not. Haters gonna hate.
We all have the right to be offended

You do understand that a huge interview of hers has just been released? People are going to discuss that here. It's a huge part of the puzzle of this case and a key part of the evidence. I think people can roll and scroll. But others have a right to reply to posts defending her honor.

People have viable opinions that she lacks empathy, arrogantly lied to LE and purposefully deleted evidence. She sounds like a spoiled brat to me who is more bothered with how this affects her life than what happened to a couple of babies.

It's grotesque, IMO. This case is chock full - on CW's side - of nefarious people who lack character and I am interested in that.

Interesting juxtaposition with Shanann's "people".

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Indeed, ALL humans get criticized, implicitly or explicitly, for their voices. Men are "supposed" to have deep voices, aren't supposed to have "light" voices, and "should" keep their voices without lisps or giggles. Black Americans are warned against speaking with a "black" dialect/intonation/pacing in "professional" situations.

Certainly those whose native languages are not English are encouraged to strive towards using English timing and cadence beyond what's needed to be understood (with some exceptions below). I was marginalized and warned about my Southern accent and went to a speech therapist because a huge number of people I met (including strangers like cashiers, receptionists, waitresses, valets, nurses, people at events, etc) in the part of the country where I had moved gave me a lot of pushback against it! Yet in my same office, someone from Australia got loads of praise for her thick accent!

What's the funny country song? "Why dontcha mind yer own bidness?" Attention humans, good idea in that song!

I think most humans tend to try to control what others do or think! And am I even doing that here? LOL!

What I noticed about NK's voice was SHE SOUNDED LIKE A SMUG LIAR.

Smug is a great description of NK.
jmo

 

[musemoon]

I want to agree with you so badly because I hold you in such high regard, but I can’t. I think people hate NK because she had an affair with Shanann’s beloved Chris and is responsible for destroying her family. Some call her a home wrecker. I don’t feel that way. I always place 100% blame on the cheater in these circumstances. CW is the one who made the commitment to Shanann, CW is the one who broke the commitment, CW is the one who destroyed his family, and CW is the one who continually lied about it all to NK. NK didn’t fully understand the truth about his marriage until she learned Shanann was 15 weeks pregnant, after the murders. She thought he was getting a divorce. She thought he lived in the basement. I’ve been around long enough to know that affairs are roller coaster rides. One minute they love him, the next minute they never want to see him again, but they can’t break away because they’re hooked. What you call NK’s lies, I see as how she felt on any given day. One minute she was having wild sex with him, the next minute she was telling him to work it out with his wife, the next minute she thought his kids were cute, the next minute she didn’t want to be the stepmother to someone else’s kids. She didn’t know what she wanted. It was a dysfunctional relationship. It didn’t change in phases, like she grew with gained insight from one time period to the next, it switched back and forth from crazy to sane, minute by minute. That’s what happens with affairs. She didn’t lie. She felt and experienced everything she said at the moment it happened, and it didn’t happen on a timeline.

I don’t judge people by their voices. Probably, it’s because I’m a retired Public Librarian, and I sat at a desk for years in a busy city where a different stranger walked up to talk to me every couple of minutes. I always thought different voices were regional. I never paid attention to the voice, I listened intently to the content of what the person was saying. That is how I listened to NK’s interview, and I found no problem with it. It is my opinion that she was fully cooperative with LE. She answered every question asked of her as detailed and completly as she could. I saw no signs of arrogance or manipulation, she was telling the detective about her life with CW the best way she knew how because he asked. Yes, she did try to protect her friends, who had absolutely nothing whatsoever, to do with her relationship with CW, from the notoriety and exposure the media would inflict upon them. That makes her a good friend, not a criminal. But when the detective explained why he needed the information about her friends, she agreed to give it to him.

<modsnip - personalizing/politicizing>

I want to call NK foolish, call her stupid, say I hope she learned a big life lesson, and let her slip back into obscurity to start her life over again. But she can’t. People seem to want to throw rocks at her. I much prefer to direct all my vitriol toward CW and send a little in the direction of his mother, father, and sister.

I listened to her tape. If you listen to the first few minutes she says she's sick, and towards the end she said she'd been up all night...perhaps she's affecting her voice and also it's raspy because of fatigue and mental trauma from a shocking discovery her boyfriend murdered his family... and yes she probably knew it had a lot to do with her.

She probably knew much more about SW than she wanted to divulge to the police. She had a racy affair, things she "couldn't remember" were things she probably didn't want to say in front of her dad and more truthfully didn't want printed in the media.

She sounds like she was in awe of SW herself (mentioning her beauty and all they had together) probably didn't feel bad for ending that, however, we read the notes CW gave her and the texts he sent. To read them I'd think he made his choice for her. Yes, wrong...very wrong all kinds of wrong. Wrong enough to have your entire future ruined by people knowing you googled anal sex? (a thing she thought she was doing in the privacy of her own home, not on the laptops of millions of people)...sorry, in my opinion...not THAT wrong.

The DA promised her what she said would be private...NOPE. I heard it and so did you, not private.

I think she was honest when she cried...it sounded very real.

When my kiddo was diagnosed with a lifelong illness, that would change our lives forever. I felt absolutely nothing. I told everyone I couldn't find my feelings anywhere. I felt like a serial killer. Why would I feel nothing? It was the most horrible thing that had ever happened to my family and I was like....there's zip there. Then in the grocery store, six weeks later. I broke down in tears and could not stop crying for two days. Finally, it hit me. I think there is some of that going on here.

In my opinion, she's guilty of having an affair. She's guilting of lying to cover up the raunchy aspects of that affair. She's guilty of wanting to win CW over SW. We saw a lot of the texts she deleted, none of them were her conspiring with CW to commit murder. She wasn't hampering the investigation to hide those details. She just didn't want the magnitude of their sex and the lives they had together getting out. She probably panicked about that.

In my opinion, she wasn't blameless of having an affair and wanting CW, he made it clear he was choosing her. She sounds like kind of a cold person...BUT... she didn't murder SW or the girls. She didn't ask CW to murder them.

I think the sentence she got was unjustified. Most mistresses don't have their lives ripped apart. And honestly....if any of us had to present our google searches to the police... what do you think they would think of most of us? I'm a writer...I write romance, crime and fantasy fiction...I can tell you honestly, without context, I do not want a police offer going over my searches. For example looking at wedding dresses doesn't mean you are planning a wedding. Maybe you are fantasizing about one...hello? How many single women in their thirties do that. I would venture to assume many. Yes, she was probably fantasizing about marriage with CW, but searching wedding gowns and getting married is a pretty wide berth apart.

Having an affair should not equal ruining your life...sorry, she's the only one not dead (heartbreaking, horrible and sad) or in jail for life, yet in my opinion, her life is just as ruined. Imagine the horror of seeing your name in print every day and your nightmare doesn't end. Sorry, even the lies she told, or the selfishness, or any of the immature things she did, didn't warrant that punishment.

MOO

 

[celticthyme]

At about 1:03 CW starts to pretend to cry.
I can't make out exactly what he is saying-- something like "nothing will ever be the same again"?
But then the detective asks: "When you came in, was your wife on top of her right? So you saw it in person?"
Chris says something like: "I will never get to talk to her again?"
Detective: "but when you came in she was right there on top--"
CW's Dad cuts off the detective and speaks for CW saying "She was right there, he put his hands on her throat."

Why is dad telling CW's story so confidently? Why is he speaking for him at this point? It's like CW is 10 years old and got called to the principals office for beating up another kid and Dad has to talk for CW to make sure the story is told correctly to put his son in the best light. Is this enmeshment?

 

[MJPeony]

I want to agree with you so badly because I hold you in such high regard, but I can’t. I think people hate NK because she had an affair with Shanann’s beloved Chris and is responsible for destroying her family. Some call her a home wrecker. I don’t feel that way. I always place 100% blame on the cheater in these circumstances. CW is the one who made the commitment to Shanann, CW is the one who broke the commitment, CW is the one who destroyed his family, and CW is the one who continually lied about it all to NK. NK didn’t fully understand the truth about his marriage until she learned Shanann was 15 weeks pregnant, after the murders. She thought he was getting a divorce. She thought he lived in the basement. I’ve been around long enough to know that affairs are roller coaster rides. One minute they love him, the next minute they never want to see him again, but they can’t break away because they’re hooked. What you call NK’s lies, I see as how she felt on any given day. One minute she was having wild sex with him, the next minute she was telling him to work it out with his wife, the next minute she thought his kids were cute, the next minute she didn’t want to be the stepmother to someone else’s kids. She didn’t know what she wanted. It was a dysfunctional relationship. It didn’t change in phases, like she grew with gained insight from one time period to the next, it switched back and forth from crazy to sane, minute by minute. That’s what happens with affairs. She didn’t lie. She felt and experienced everything she said at the moment it happened, and it didn’t happen on a timeline.

I don’t judge people by their voices. Probably, it’s because I’m a retired Public Librarian, and I sat at a desk for years in a busy city where a different stranger walked up to talk to me every couple of minutes. I always thought different voices were regional. I never paid attention to the voice, I listened intently to the content of what the person was saying. That is how I listened to NK’s interview, and I found no problem with it. It is my opinion that she was fully cooperative with LE. She answered every question asked of her as detailed and completely as she could. I saw no signs of arrogance or manipulation, she was telling the detective about her life with CW the best way she knew how because he asked. Yes, she did try to protect her friends, who had absolutely nothing whatsoever, to do with her relationship with CW, from the notoriety and exposure the media would inflict upon them. That makes her a good friend, not a criminal. But when the detective explained why he needed the information about her friends, she agreed to give it to him.

<modsnip - personalizing/politicizing>

I want to call NK foolish, call her stupid, say I hope she learned a big life lesson, and let her slip back into obscurity to start her life over again. But she can’t. People seem to want to throw rocks at her. I much prefer to direct all my vitriol toward CW and send a little in the direction of his mother, father, and sister.

BBM

I don't have the same view. I do not place 100% blame on the cheating spouse. Yes, the spouse is the one who made a marriage commitment, so breaking that commitment is their own moral failing. But the person "woo-ing" the spouse, and participating in the act of a spouse cheating, is absolutely partially to blame for the cheating. And therefore absolutely partially responsible. IMO. There is no way I will remove blame from the second half of the affair just bc one of them didn't have their own spouse. NK knew CW was married. This is unequivocally established fact. I don't care whether she *thought* they were getting a divorce or not. They weren't divorced.

I'll speak for myself here, but all of this matters in this case to me b/c NK played SIGNIFICANTLY into the aspect of this tragedy. Is she to blame for the murders? No. CW is the murderer. But NK ferociously pursued CW. Ferociously! And yes, that is part of what makes me very very much dislike her. Affairs are playing with fire. No one/no mistress expects a man to murder his family in order to be with you, but good heavens.... anyone with an ounce of maturity must know that they are at the very least complicit in creating great emotional pain to the innocent members of that family.

NK can say that it was him- he was the one who told me lies. And yes, he did. But she made the choice to believe what a cheating spouse was telling her. That part is on her. That was stupid. But it was her choice.

And her actions afterwards- the interviews, etc that we have been discussing are the icing on the cake for me. Very "non-neurotypical" responses IMO. Jarringly up and down, self-serving, lacking in empathy, aggressive towards the investigators. I can only judge based on what I would imagine my own response to be and I can say that if I had been called in to be interviewed about my AP's murdered wife and children I would have had a very different demeanor. Scared sh**less, yes. But I cannot for the life of me justify an aggressive demeanor.

All MOO.

 

[Gardener1850]

Agree. To imply that the criticism of her behaviors is only because she is a woman is the true definition of being sexist. Believe it or not, I do have the ability to view people on their own merits and not their gender and she is very lacking in the merit department

Yes, exactly. I would feel the same way if NK was a man CW had an affair with. The lies and evasion and omission of details and her nasty attitude towards the murder victims are what has me disgusted. It has nothing to do with gender. She tried to make herself sound good but it really was not believable when she said she told him they needed space and he needed to work on his marriage, while at the same time she is looking for apartments for him and figuring in his budget, distance to his job, distance to her apt and distance to his kids' school. She is literally telling him what he should be eating to lose weight and setting up apps on his phone for him to track his "macros"... But he was more interested in her than she was in him? Ok.

She contradicted herself on almost everything she said. I'm not completely sure what was the truth and what was her embellishing to try to make herself look better in the situation, but none of that interview made her look good. At all.

MOO.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

True. Where I take issue is when people bash actual victims (or support posts that do) without a logical or factual basis, or do so on the sly, while professing to be "open-minded.".

Otherwise, yes, people have various reasons for their opinions and that should not be demeaned.

What I have an issue with is some people are actually open minded and don’t bash victims, but they are lumped into the category of a victim basher because a post was liked. There are many reasons why posts are liked and it’s not only to support the context in the post.
jmo

 

[SweetPeas56]

@MassGuy I had to Google "vocal fry". So weird. Tried it out. What a pain! I couldn't talk like that all the time.

*Regarding NKs voice in the interview.

 

[Steelhead]

I really won't be satisfied until she is charged with lying to LE and obstruction

But what does that have to do with this case?

 

[Gingerbread7]

Idk but it would work with me if it was, lol.

Sometimes you don’t want them to know the time.

 

[ReckoningDay]

I listened to her tape. If you listen to the first few minutes she says she's sick, and towards the end she said she'd been up all night...perhaps she's affecting her voice and also it's raspy because of fatigue and mental trauma from a shocking discovery her boyfriend murdered his family... and yes she probably knew it had a lot to do with her.

She probably knew much more about SW than she wanted to divulge to the police. She had a racy affair, things she "couldn't remember" were things she probably didn't want to say in front of her dad and more truthfully didn't want printed in the media.

She sounds like she was in awe of SW herself (mentioning her beauty and all they had together) probably didn't feel bad for ending that, however, we read the notes CW gave her and the texts he sent. To read them I'd think he made his choice for her. Yes, wrong...very wrong all kinds of wrong. Wrong enough to have your entire future ruined by people knowing you googled anal sex? (a thing she thought she was doing in the privacy of her own home, not on the laptops of millions of people)...sorry, in my opinion...not THAT wrong.

The DA promised her what she said would be private...NOPE. I heard it and so did you, not private.

I think she was honest when she cried...it sounded very real.

When my kiddo was diagnosed with a lifelong illness, that would change our lives forever. I felt absolutely nothing. I told everyone I couldn't find my feelings anywhere. I felt like a serial killer. Why would I feel nothing? It was the most horrible thing that had ever happened to my family and I was like....there's zip there. Then in the grocery store, six weeks later. I broke down in tears and could not stop crying for two days. Finally, it hit me. I think there is some of that going on here.

In my opinion, she's guilty of having an affair. She's guilting of lying to cover up the raunchy aspects of that affair. She's guilty of wanting to win CW over SW. We saw a lot of the texts she deleted, none of them were her conspiring with CW to commit murder. She wasn't hampering the investigation to hide those details. She just didn't want the magnitude of their sex and the lives they had together getting out. She probably panicked about that.

In my opinion, she wasn't blameless of having an affair and wanting CW, he made it clear he was choosing her. She sounds like kind of a cold person...BUT... she didn't murder SW or the girls. She didn't ask CW to murder them.

I think the sentence she got was unjustified. Most mistresses don't have their lives ripped apart. And honestly....if any of us had to present our google searches to the police... what do you think they would think of most of us? I'm a writer...I write romance, crime and fantasy fiction...I can tell you honestly, without context, I do not want a police offer going over my searches. For example looking at wedding dresses doesn't mean you are planning a wedding. Maybe you are fantasizing about one...hello? How many single women in their thirties do that. I would venture to assume many. Yes, she was probably fantasizing about marriage with CW, but searching wedding gowns and getting married is a pretty wide berth apart.

Having an affair should not equal ruining your life...sorry, she's the only one not dead (heartbreaking, horrible and sad) or in jail for life, yet in my opinion, her life is just as ruined. Imagine the horror of seeing your name in print every day and your nightmare doesn't end. Sorry, even the lies she told, or the selfishness, or any of the immature things she did, didn't warrant that punishment.

MOO

Seriously?! You think NK life is as.ruined as that of Shanann and Bella and Celeste? That is a shocking statement.

 

[Deleted member 182072]

I'm also being asked what Chris Watts will be allowed to buy from the Prison Canteen system. Inmates serving a sentence in Colorado Each inmate has a weekly opportunity to order from the Canteen, with restrictions applied based upon their custody level.

This is a link to the Canteen Vendor with an extensive catalog of items Colorado inmates can purchase.

Thanks, Larry.
Those food items look like mostly dollar store fare.
Will his fans be able to bring him homemade cookies and other treats?
Do you know whether CW will be able to have electronics in his cell?
Do inmates in CO get any internet access?

 

[Gardener1850]

Thank you so much to everyone who has been posting quotes, clips, and everything else. My computer is a dinosaur that isn't interested in large downloads.

I was hoping someone could clarify. I've read that CW smothered the girls with a pillow and saw it stated that this info was in the docs somewhere, and I've also read that he smothered them with his bare hands as there were no fibers, etc, in the airways.

Does anyone have the specifics on this? Thanks.

I have not seen anything about a pillow anywhere in the documents. The DA said CW used his bare hands to smother them. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong. I think that may be a social media rumor or a misunderstanding/assumption being made because he did throw away pillow cases.

 

[scdiv]

Lol! On a serious note, has anyone sleuthed on MyFitnessPal to see if CW posted anything there? NK kept talking about a fitness "community" she was involved in:

Free Diet and Fitness Forums and Chat, Free Diet Tips | MyFitnessPal.com

(Mods hope it's ok to post this link)

I have no specific knowledge of this, but I'm kind of in the "fitness world" as a profession and I would say I know most people in my community who are similar. We have the same trainers, lift at the same gyms, take the same classes, participate in the same events, and everyone kind of knows each other. I know people who have trained for fitness competitions, their diets, etc. It's all super boring, but I could relate to her saying she is tapped into a pretty tight knit fitness community. I didn't get a sense it was MyFitnessPal. That's just an easy site/app to track calories and macros.

I can also see how CW's weight and appearance changed so much quickly in the last mug shot. He went from eating clean and strict to no longer able to run his miles or lift weights, or eat his lean proteins, and is now sitting in a jail cell likely with a lot of high sodium, processed food, and a vending machine diet. No organic veggies for him!

 

[ReckoningDay]

But what does that have to do with this case?

ANY case in which a witness is lying to LE or obstructing justice...there should be consequences Hello?

 

[BingoBongo]

With all those involved in this sordid mess, there is no way to accurately *know* who/what they are unless we also know them in real life. As an example, we can assume, extrapolate and dissect NK's voice ad infinitum, but unless we are privy to how she sounded in her daily life, it's impossible to *know* if this vocal fry was normal for her, or not.

That being said, I still think she affected it to suit the occasion.

And, I *know* CW is an evil freak.

 

[Bravo]

Impatiently awaiting the documents to appear in a user friendly format.

 

[opalonyx]

Seriously?! You think NK life is as.ruined as that of Shanann and Bella and Celeste? That is a shocking statement.

I can only imagine the disgust Shanann's family felt when they had seen what NK had to say. Especially regarding the book deal search. Frankie said their pursuit of justice isn't over. I wholeheartedly support that pursuit and completely understand why they are seeking it.

Someone entertaining the idea of profiting off of a dead family is asinine ESPECIALLY within days of their murders. It follows a pattern since NK was imagining a married life with CW while he's still married and then she's acting pious while asking him to research the impact a divorce has on children. She added, it's worse on them when they are older though! They will have a blast sharing a room in your apartment! (Paraphrasing)

The justification of and minimizing of her actions isn't a good look. What goes around comes around, I guess.