CT - Jennifer Dulos, 50, deceased/not found, New Canaan, 24 May 2019 *ARRESTS* #62

[afitzy]

I respectfully disagree. MOO.

If I can figure out change my banner title I think I will pilfer this one! Good one! MOO

 

[DeDee]

Let's flesh out Fotis and his female relationships a bit more, shall we? I detect an interesting tangled web.

AC and Fotis Dulos met at a New York City finance firm shortly after she graduated <>. She worked at Capgemini from 1999 to 2003 in wealth management strategy. According to Dulos’ LI profile, he worked at Capgemini from 1997 to 2004 as a manger. AC moved to North Carolina in 2013.

Hence, they knew one another at Capgemini when he was a manager, as early as 1999 - then up and until Dulos' passing JAN 30, 2020. That makes their friendship as long as possibly 20 yrs.

"AC worked as a certified financial planner < > in NYC from 2003 to 2006. She was then < > at the < >, also in Manhattan, from 2006 to 2010." ** Fotis is married to Jennifer during this time. **

Jen married her cowardly dead killer in 2004, filed divorce after 13yrs in 2017, then went missing May 24, 2019.

Michi dated and fornicated with this married man w 5 children possibly as early as 2015, or earlier. Is that right?
Michi stopped seeing Fotis sometime after their arrests June 1, 2019 and again JAN 20, 2020. (together for 4yrs?)

Somehow Fotis manages to get AC to move into Mr. Farber's home at 4JC by the time of his suicide, Jan 30, 2020.

Michi is tossed aside when? about June 1, 2019 and AC is in his favor quickly enough to post part of his bail on Jan 9, 2020 and move into 4JC before he dies on Jan 30, 2020.

Interesting. #HowDeepWasTheirRelationshipDuringThose20Years -- jmoo

 

[Mimi in London]

She's a tough cookie. A survivor. She hitched her wagon to his star because she thought he had money, as did her Mama. Nor did she ever fear JF. All that about being afraid to be in her house was complete BS, IMO. Looking back, JF should have feared her. It's slowly being revealed in the courtroom. Is her family finally getting the picture? It's been several days since their pressers on the courthouse steps. Had the defendant been completely honest with them? Or are they hearing the latest for the first time?

I don't think for one second any of tje Troconis family thought she was innocent. They know her too well. They do seem genuinely upset, though, that she was caught and is being tried.

 

[DeDee]

I don't think for one second any of tje Troconis family thought she was innocent. They know her too well. They do seem genuinely upset, though, that she was caught and is being tried.

I've seen a solemn but congenial father Traconis holding her hand or walking arm in arm as they arrived for court on occasions. It is a sign of support he hopes will help her get through the toughest moments, up until now, of her life. She thought living with Dulos was two yrs of hell. She's likely going to find out. What is the prison system like there?

Father's are tender like that often with their daughters. While it may be sad, for the two of them, he's not walking her down the aisle into a life of glamour, that will never be. There was a diversion in the bumpy road for Michi and she intentionally and knowingly chose the wrong road, made the wrong choices. We're responsible for our choices in life.

Many of us may fall short of our dreams, from time to time, but we don't participate in murdering people. We don't forsake our beloved children when in their tender years. Yet, Fotis and Michelle are equally guilty of doing that.

JMO

 

[Megnut]

FD clearly demonstrated that he was a dangerous person, particularly in his prior relationships as we have seen.

But idk if he was dangerous to MT prior to the murder of JF? Could MT have been different and FD treated MT differently than JF and his first wife? Idk if FD would have hurt MT as he initially needed her for his revenge plan against JF. But, would he have hurt her after he didn’t need her any longer for his plans? Or would he have simply discarded her as we saw him do when he moved on to Anna Curry who had the money he needed? Idk, just seemed like FD was something of an opportunistic predator in his relationships and so perhaps the only thing he wanted from MT was to hurt JF? Idk.

What always fascinated me about the insanity and complete self absorption of FD was that he seemed to blame JF for her lack of attention to him (I mean who can forget his quote to the Greek publication where he claimed that they hadn’t had a ‘relationship’ or something along those lines for 6 years) during the period that she had 5 children that he didn’t seem to talk too much about in that article to possibly understand why the relationship dynamic possibly changed during that period. FD seemed to take zero responsibility for the relationship and so seemed to blame JF for everything and then gas lit her in a major way too. He seemed to be quite angry and vengeful that JF wasn’t as attentive or available to him once the house was filled with young children that took up most of her time but he also seemed to willingly spend all the Farber money like the well would never run dry! He seemed to resent anything JF did for herself and particularly seemed mocking of her writing. JF didn’t share his love waterskiing, horror movies and most likely travel was challenging when all the children were small but I’m not sure what the couple ever had in common. Idk, but they just seemed like chalk and cheese with little in common.

I do also wonder about the FD childhood as it seems like he didn’t really understand what having 5 children involves and then you throw in two sets of twins too. He seemed like an only child (think his sister was a good deal older than he was iirc) with no concept of what raising children involves. I continue to scratch my head at FD traveling around the world to pursue waterskiing while JF was home minding the home front. Iirc JF couldn’t even speak with her mother in law who lived nearby unless she spoke Greek and I’ve never read anywhere that JF spoke any Greek! It’s a bit mind boggling as it wasn’t as if FD were a professional athlete and water skiing was his profession. Nope, it was an expensive hobby by all accounts. But my guess is that JF enjoyed the silence when FD wasn’t home.

Or, would FD have dumped MT after the couple got away with the murder of the century (assuming this happened of course!) as FD moved on to younger and greener $$$ pastures?

I have long suspected that MT meant nothing to FD other than possibly sex and a side kick who shared his interests as her primary purpose was simply as a tool to torment JF. MT lacked any of the attributes of other prior relationships as she seemed crass and crude and didn’t offer anything financially to the relationship. Idk, MT just doesn’t seem like FD MO on the relationship ladder of life! But she played a role that to FD was important for a period of time and I just wonder what that might have been? Perhaps it was as simple as she gave him the undivided attention JF would not or could not? Maybe, IDK.

But playing out your thought, I do wonder if had FD and MT gotten away with the murder would FD have dumped MT or continued on as is until he found a bigger fish or would he have married her and they spent xx number of years watching each other and waiting for one or both to cheat? Or some version of any of these ideas?

Relationships amongst co conspirators are important and there was something that kept FD and MT together and plotting with KM. I’m not sure we understand it all enough to figure out what the FD and MT dynamic was. Sometimes I wonder if it was dominant and submissive but other times listening to MT in her LE interviews I then questioned whether those roles were actually reversed? Wish we understood the dynamic better.

Just me thinking and typing as I still can’t process MT staying with FD as the relationship had a foundation of sand as virtually everything the couple had came from Farber money and their world and relationship bubble was collapsing. I’m just not getting this part of the overall puzzle…..

But I’ve been doing a bit of reading on malignant narcissists and I just wonder if perhaps in this case two of these evil types simply found each other and then just used each other for their own mutual ends and would stay together for as long as one or the other needed the other and then the relationship would fizzle once the intense mutual need period ended? MT and FD have imo more similarities than differences which is always something I found interesting about them as a couple.

MOO

Excellent synopsis.

Only thing I might be able to add to it -- serial cheaters overlap their relationships.

The defendant was still in FD's honeymoon phase. As you say, JFd was at home, where she was raising five very young children, and FD was off luxuriating in his "very expensive hobby". Hobbies. Water-skiing and women. Er... The Next Woman.

IMO it was FD's Next Woman's job to fawn over him. To make him feel six foot tall and made of muscle.

The relationship would have run its course, and FD's initial charm would have worm off, like electroplating. No woman could last with him. Because he's FD.

What IS different about the defendant and their dynamic, she was also using him. And she was in it to win it. She saw FD's ugliest side, didn't deter her.

They're both self-centered, greedy, conniving charlatans.

But she was nothing special to FD. As soon as she stopped meeting his needs, he replaced her.

JMO

 

[Niner]

Tuesday, February 14th:
*Trial continues-CANCELLED Due to weather (@ 10am ET) – CT – Jennifer Rebecca Farber Dulos (50) (May 24, 2019, New Canaan; still missing) – *Michelle C. Troconis (44/now 49) (Dulos’ GF) arrested & charged (6/1/19) & arraigned (6/3/19) with tampering with or fabricating physical evidence & hindering prosecution. Plead not guilty. $500K bond. Posted bond (on 6/3/19). These charges were dismissed (8/28/20) & recharged below.
*Charged (9/5/19) & arraigned (10/4/19) with tampering with evidence involving the borrowed car from work colleague. Plead not guilty. $100K bond. Posted bond (on 9/5/19). Off GPS 4/6/23.
*Charged (1/7/20) with conspiracy to commit murder. Plead not guilty. $2M bond. Bond reduced (1/8/20) to $1.5M & bonded out (on 1/9/20). Off GPS 4/6/23.
*Charged (8/28/20) with 2nd degree hindering prosecution, tampering with physical evidence & conspiracy to commit tampering with physical evidence. No plea entered yet. $500K bond. Posted bond. Off GPS 4/6/23.
The declaration of death for Jennifer was3 officially issued by Judge William P. Osterndorf on October 24, 2023.
Jury Selection began on 10/4/23 & ended 10/26/23. Another jury selection after dismissed jurors on 1/10/24. Now 6 jurors & 2 alternates. (4 women & 4 men).
Trial began on 1/11/24. (will last about a month to 3/1/24). No court on 2/9 or 2/12/24.
Superior Court Judge Kevin Randolph presiding for trial. Assistant State’s attorney Sean McGuinness & Supervisory assistant State’s attorney Michelle Manning & defense attorneys Jon Schoenhorn & Audrey Felson.
Bond info & Court info from 6/3/19 thru 12/6/23 & Jury Selection Day 1-11 (10/4-10/26/23), 2nd Jury Selection Day 1-2 (1/9 & 1/10/24) & Trial Day 1-19 (1/11-2/6/24) reference post #437 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...-canaan-24-may-2019-arrests-62.703629/page-22
2/8/24 Thursday, Trial Day 20: State witnesses: Mark Newth, Connecticut State Forensic Lab’s Computer Crimes & Electronic Evidence team. Newth was tasked with analyzing the infotainment systems from Fotis Dulos’ Ford Raptor & Jennifer Dulos’ Chevrolet Suburban, which was found abandoned on Lapham Road in New Canaan on May 24, 2019.
Michael Clark, Fairfield Police Dept. detective, Cyber investigations, digital technology & digital forensic examiner. He was tasked with analyzing data from two of Fotis Dulos’ cellphones in May 2019.
For more info see post #500 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...-canaan-24-may-2019-arrests-62.703629/page-25
2/13/24 Update: All state courts & administrative offices will be closed on Feb. 13. All cases that were scheduled for Feb. 13 will be rescheduled (including those that would have been conducted remotely) except for TRO's and Civil Protection Orders that will be heard on the next business day.
Trial continues on Wednesday, 2/14/24.

 

[LosAngeles]

Oh, okay. Thank you! A tiny correction. Tuesday, Feb 13

 

[Ruminations]

Boy, if I were innocent, I'd allow my phone, my handbag contents, my shoe prints etc...in full display and up for analysis.

Me too, if if helped find Jennifer faster.

NGL, I wouldn't just hand my phone over to LE if I didn't see its value to them. There are MANY times you demand a warrant-in fact usually you demand one. An emergency where someone is missing and you could help is not one of them.

MOO

 

[Ruminations]

FD clearly demonstrated that he was a dangerous person, particularly in his prior relationships as we have seen.

But idk if he was dangerous to MT prior to the murder of JF? Could MT have been different and FD treated MT differently than JF and his first wife? Idk if FD would have hurt MT as he initially needed her for his revenge plan against JF. But, would he have hurt her after he didn’t need her any longer for his plans? Or would he have simply discarded her as we saw him do when he moved on to Anna Curry who had the money he needed? Idk, just seemed like FD was something of an opportunistic predator in his relationships and so perhaps the only thing he wanted from MT was to hurt JF? Idk.

What always fascinated me about the insanity and complete self absorption of FD was that he seemed to blame JF for her lack of attention to him (I mean who can forget his quote to the Greek publication where he claimed that they hadn’t had a ‘relationship’ or something along those lines for 6 years) during the period that she had 5 children that he didn’t seem to talk too much about in that article to possibly understand why the relationship dynamic possibly changed during that period. FD seemed to take zero responsibility for the relationship and so seemed to blame JF for everything and then gas lit her in a major way too. He seemed to be quite angry and vengeful that JF wasn’t as attentive or available to him once the house was filled with young children that took up most of her time but he also seemed to willingly spend all the Farber money like the well would never run dry! He seemed to resent anything JF did for herself and particularly seemed mocking of her writing. JF didn’t share his love waterskiing, horror movies and most likely travel was challenging when all the children were small but I’m not sure what the couple ever had in common. Idk, but they just seemed like chalk and cheese with little in common.

I do also wonder about the FD childhood as it seems like he didn’t really understand what having 5 children involves and then you throw in two sets of twins too. He seemed like an only child (think his sister was a good deal older than he was iirc) with no concept of what raising children involves. I continue to scratch my head at FD traveling around the world to pursue waterskiing while JF was home minding the home front. Iirc JF couldn’t even speak with her mother in law who lived nearby unless she spoke Greek and I’ve never read anywhere that JF spoke any Greek! It’s a bit mind boggling as it wasn’t as if FD were a professional athlete and water skiing was his profession. Nope, it was an expensive hobby by all accounts. But my guess is that JF enjoyed the silence when FD wasn’t home.

Or, would FD have dumped MT after the couple got away with the murder of the century (assuming this happened of course!) as FD moved on to younger and greener $$$ pastures?

I have long suspected that MT meant nothing to FD other than possibly sex and a side kick who shared his interests as her primary purpose was simply as a tool to torment JF. MT lacked any of the attributes of other prior relationships as she seemed crass and crude and didn’t offer anything financially to the relationship. Idk, MT just doesn’t seem like FD MO on the relationship ladder of life! But she played a role that to FD was important for a period of time and I just wonder what that might have been? Perhaps it was as simple as she gave him the undivided attention JF would not or could not? Maybe, IDK.

But playing out your thought, I do wonder if had FD and MT gotten away with the murder would FD have dumped MT or continued on as is until he found a bigger fish or would he have married her and they spent xx number of years watching each other and waiting for one or both to cheat? Or some version of any of these ideas?

Relationships amongst co conspirators are important and there was something that kept FD and MT together and plotting with KM. I’m not sure we understand it all enough to figure out what the FD and MT dynamic was. Sometimes I wonder if it was dominant and submissive but other times listening to MT in her LE interviews I then questioned whether those roles were actually reversed? Wish we understood the dynamic better.

Just me thinking and typing as I still can’t process MT staying with FD as the relationship had a foundation of sand as virtually everything the couple had came from Farber money and their world and relationship bubble was collapsing. I’m just not getting this part of the overall puzzle…..

But I’ve been doing a bit of reading on malignant narcissists and I just wonder if perhaps in this case two of these evil types simply found each other and then just used each other for their own mutual ends and would stay together for as long as one or the other needed the other and then the relationship would fizzle once the intense mutual need period ended? MT and FD have imo more similarities than differences which is always something I found interesting about them as a couple.

MOO

Was he dangerous to MT, absolutely. And you see that she knew it in some level in that she never challenged him. Ever. She didn't use sex as a weapon. She used it to be the cool one with Fotis so she could imagine she was safe- and keep her hinky meter confused.

Did Fotis ever physically hurt her? Maybe not. Yet. But he didn't need to. Yet. She already did everything he wanted. And when she challenged him in trivial ways, he gaslit her into thinking she was being aggressive and dominan-rather than just being a partner in the relationship.

She still conspired to murder, IMO, and has burned the bridge of "I was blinded by Fotis, but now I see and let me help." Because she has no help to offer. And admitting blindness now is admitting there was something she should have seen-aka admitting guilt.

MOO

 

[Jmoose]

I don't think for one second any of tje Troconis family thought she was innocent. They know her too well. They do seem genuinely upset, though, that she was caught and is being tried.

I agree with this. They know what she did, and they don’t care-they only care that she is being held responsible.

 

[Niner]

Oops - sorry - but the wrong date up thread for NO trial today.... need more coffee!

 

[afitzy]

The whole world in CT is white this morning particularly in Fairfield County where parts of the area already have 6" of a heavy dense snow and road conditions are not great. Most schools and many businesses are closed in the area too. Here is local road report for those not from the area:

 

[LosAngeles]

I don't think for one second any of tje Troconis family thought she was innocent. They know her too well. They do seem genuinely upset, though, that she was caught and is being tried.

And that their family name "Troconis" is associated with yet another criminal matter...MURDER. "Gosh darn these Troconis women can't stay out of trouble. We have to constantly stop our lives, ban together and support this nonsense to protect our family heritage and important surname." Very delusional folks, although, they have been pretty silent lately.

I do wonder what the new boyfriend thinks after hearing all of this information? I can't imagine anyone would tolerate this amont of stress and be willing to trust the defendant, but who knows?

 

[afitzy]

I'm putting this video into the thread as Atty Lee did alot of hard audio and video work on the MT LE interviews to make it easier to listen to the conversation between MT (Atty Bowman) and LE. Atty Lee also added subtitles for the sections of clips she used where audio quality remained challenging.

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

Yeah. Fotis controlled her. It doesn't mean she's not guilty.

MOO

Yes, and if that is the case, many would say that she let him control her? Not sure the specifics of the relationship, but if elements of codependency that can be complicated and without good boundaries. And also concur it does not mean she is not guilty. MOO

 

[Jmoose]

And that their family name "Troconis" is associated with yet another criminal matter...MURDER. "Gosh darn these Troconis women can't stay out of trouble. We have to constantly stop our lives, ban together and support this nonsense to protect our family heritage and important surname." Very delusional folks, although, they have been pretty silent lately.

I do wonder what the new boyfriend thinks after hearing all of this information? I can't imagine anyone would tolerate this amont of stress and be willing to trust the defendant, but who knows?

Maybe MT’s got “the kavorka” (if you are a Seinfeld fan), and she is just soooo alluring?

 

[SkylarSid]

FD clearly demonstrated that he was a dangerous person, particularly in his prior relationships as we have seen.

But idk if he was dangerous to MT prior to the murder of JF? Could MT have been different and FD treated MT differently than JF and his first wife? Idk if FD would have hurt MT as he initially needed her for his revenge plan against JF. But, would he have hurt her after he didn’t need her any longer for his plans? Or would he have simply discarded her as we saw him do when he moved on to Anna Curry who had the money he needed? Idk, just seemed like FD was something of an opportunistic predator in his relationships and so perhaps the only thing he wanted from MT was to hurt JF? Idk.

What always fascinated me about the insanity and complete self absorption of FD was that he seemed to blame JF for her lack of attention to him (I mean who can forget his quote to the Greek publication where he claimed that they hadn’t had a ‘relationship’ or something along those lines for 6 years) during the period that she had 5 children that he didn’t seem to talk too much about in that article to possibly understand why the relationship dynamic possibly changed during that period. FD seemed to take zero responsibility for the relationship and so seemed to blame JF for everything and then gas lit her in a major way too. He seemed to be quite angry and vengeful that JF wasn’t as attentive or available to him once the house was filled with young children that took up most of her time but he also seemed to willingly spend all the Farber money like the well would never run dry! He seemed to resent anything JF did for herself and particularly seemed mocking of her writing. JF didn’t share his love waterskiing, horror movies and most likely travel was challenging when all the children were small but I’m not sure what the couple ever had in common. Idk, but they just seemed like chalk and cheese with little in common.

I do also wonder about the FD childhood as it seems like he didn’t really understand what having 5 children involves and then you throw in two sets of twins too. He seemed like an only child (think his sister was a good deal older than he was iirc) with no concept of what raising children involves. I continue to scratch my head at FD traveling around the world to pursue waterskiing while JF was home minding the home front. Iirc JF couldn’t even speak with her mother in law who lived nearby unless she spoke Greek and I’ve never read anywhere that JF spoke any Greek! It’s a bit mind boggling as it wasn’t as if FD were a professional athlete and water skiing was his profession. Nope, it was an expensive hobby by all accounts. But my guess is that JF enjoyed the silence when FD wasn’t home.

Or, would FD have dumped MT after the couple got away with the murder of the century (assuming this happened of course!) as FD moved on to younger and greener $$$ pastures?

I have long suspected that MT meant nothing to FD other than possibly sex and a side kick who shared his interests as her primary purpose was simply as a tool to torment JF. MT lacked any of the attributes of other prior relationships as she seemed crass and crude and didn’t offer anything financially to the relationship. Idk, MT just doesn’t seem like FD MO on the relationship ladder of life! But she played a role that to FD was important for a period of time and I just wonder what that might have been? Perhaps it was as simple as she gave him the undivided attention JF would not or could not? Maybe, IDK.

But playing out your thought, I do wonder if had FD and MT gotten away with the murder would FD have dumped MT or continued on as is until he found a bigger fish or would he have married her and they spent xx number of years watching each other and waiting for one or both to cheat? Or some version of any of these ideas?

Relationships amongst co conspirators are important and there was something that kept FD and MT together and plotting with KM. I’m not sure we understand it all enough to figure out what the FD and MT dynamic was. Sometimes I wonder if it was dominant and submissive but other times listening to MT in her LE interviews I then questioned whether those roles were actually reversed? Wish we understood the dynamic better.

Just me thinking and typing as I still can’t process MT staying with FD as the relationship had a foundation of sand as virtually everything the couple had came from Farber money and their world and relationship bubble was collapsing. I’m just not getting this part of the overall puzzle…..

But I’ve been doing a bit of reading on malignant narcissists and I just wonder if perhaps in this case two of these evil types simply found each other and then just used each other for their own mutual ends and would stay together for as long as one or the other needed the other and then the relationship would fizzle once the intense mutual need period ended? MT and FD have imo more similarities than differences which is always something I found interesting about them as a couple.

MOO

Try looking at it in terms of the dynamic between a malignant narcissist and a covert narcissist. They go hand-in-hand like two peas in a pod.

 

[Silverstorm]

Afitzy thank you for posting the video from Harvard Lawyer Lee. It was very interesting to see the police discuss their thoughts on mT when she leaves the room.
Also interesting, the first comment under the video the person thought MT opened the door to lean out and touch the sidewalk right then because she was (trying) to hide him with the door open while he dumped the plates in the sewer.
I have heard others say that, too.

 

[turaj]

Thanks so much for the update on today. Kept looking for the stream.
I will say this very long break for jury could result in some issues upon
their return. They don't have many to spare at this stage of the trial.

 

[afitzy]

Afitzy thank you for posting the video from Harvard Lawyer Lee. It was very interesting to see the police discuss their thoughts on mT when she leaves the room.
Also interesting, the first comment under the video the person thought MT opened the door to lean out and touch the sidewalk right then because she was (trying) to hide him with the door open while he dumped the plates in the sewer.
I have heard others say that, too.

Yes, she has done a number of other videos on the trial and sometimes getting an atty's take on things can be interesting. She also has been flagging potential areas for the appeal sometimes in her commentary. She only picked up this case recently so doesn't have all the back story on the various participants but she is working hard I think to make a complicated crime accessible to folks online and I'm glad she is following the case.

As she does make these comments about appeal issue from Defence, I think it makes it easier to see what a tightrope both Judge R and State are walking in their dealings with "Esteemed Defence Counsel" in his defence of MT as to the proceedings and what seems to be an inevitable appeal on behalf of MT. Judge R is working quite hard to keep the trial record so clear and that extra work and time is definitely dragging this trial from a timing standpoint. State too is at times walking on eggshells and so is spending extra time to be precise so as to not give "Esteemed Defence Counsel" the opportunity to pop up like a WHACK A MOLE and shout "Mistrial, Your Honour"! Its a painful but necessary process unfortunately.

So, every time "Esteemed Defence Counsel" makes an objection about State "Wasting time" my suggestion is to 'watch your wallet' and look at the issue being discussed as many of these kinds of objections are quite telling imo! Also, suggest to keep in mind that not only did he flood this trial with I believe over 70 motions pre trial (not sure how many extra ones alone since this trial started as I think Judge R has to be sitting on at least 10 motions that have yet to be discussed, unless they resolved them outside of the streaming process so we didn't see their resolution and he is singlehandedly responsible for dragging this trial so long from when the original charges were filed and the trial evidence produced. My guess/speculation on this is that the Troconis family wanted MT to be able to stay with her daughter through high school and I believe that is almost done.

On the MT Albany Ave palm swipe its clear MT was doing something very deliberately. If there was gum I do wonder if LE picked it up but we didn't see it entered in evidence. But, its interesting that MT opening the passenger side door ONLY seemed to happen so far as we see on the video for the time FD goes to dump to Fed Ex envelope with the plates. Will be interesting to see how the State spins this in closing.

MOO