Deaths of Male College Students-General Discussion #5

[Filly]

I wonder if LE is checking for any graffiti that may be related nearby for either of those cases.

The link below has a photo of the young man, Kambili Moukwa
http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/1354817.html

Filly, how many minutes apart would it be about? That is odd about the bridge. I wonder if something happened and Moukwa never made it to water, maybe they got interrupted..

MeoW, I looked for images of that lot. Closer up ones and can't find any. Over that bridge to Cherry Hill is 20 minutes or so. It's real close.

The Zee Bar that Moukwa was at is a whole city block away from that parking lot. He worked in our City Hall here and went to Penn so you'd have to be unable to practically walk to know you're going towards the river. That's as far as you can go. You'd know you're going the wrong way.

He called his friends. To me I'd think he couldn't be that drunk to make a call. If indeed he did get confused and went toward the river and then made the call you wouldn't just lay there in that frigid weather.

That would be way far for a person to carry a grown man. Spring Garden Street is busy as is Delaware Avenue which is also called Columbus Boulevard (don't ask). I doubt someone drove him down there because there's gates. It used to be where our trash got incinerated.

It's just weird again one guy seperated from friends and another kicked out of a bar. Twenty minutes apart in distance. BTW, I-95 is right there as well. Quick getaway. As for grafitti there's tons of it down there. We're also known for the city with like a gazillion murals. There's a big mural down in those parts of the American Flag. Our El goes underground right at Spring Garden and there's tons of grafitti upstairs and down.

I'd go look but I'm chicken like that. No way am I going down by the river.

 

[MeoW333]

MeoW, I looked for images of that lot. Closer up ones and can't find any. Over that bridge to Cherry Hill is 20 minutes or so. It's real close.

The Zee Bar that Moukwa was at is a whole city block away from that parking lot. He worked in our City Hall here and went to Penn so you'd have to be unable to practically walk to know you're going towards the river. That's as far as you can go. You'd know you're going the wrong way.

He called his friends. To me I'd think he couldn't be that drunk to make a call. If indeed he did get confused and went toward the river and then made the call you wouldn't just lay there in that frigid weather.

That would be way far for a person to carry a grown man. Spring Garden Street is busy as is Delaware Avenue which is also called Columbus Boulevard (don't ask). I doubt someone drove him down there because there's gates. It used to be where our trash got incinerated.

It's just weird again one guy seperated from friends and another kicked out of a bar. Twenty minutes apart in distance. BTW, I-95 is right there as well. Quick getaway. As for grafitti there's tons of it down there. We're also known for the city with like a gazillion murals. There's a big mural down in those parts of the American Flag. Our El goes underground right at Spring Garden and there's tons of grafitti upstairs and down.

I'd go look but I'm chicken like that. No way am I going down by the river.

Moukwa was found dead, yet what was the cause of death exactly? This one remains a mystery...

In the Martinez case, he had been kicked out of the bar by bouncers and that was around 1am. Perhaps he tried to get back into the bar via the fountains and hit his head, getting stuck in the process.

"
The pond, on a small lawn a few feet from a Taylors parking lot and Route 70, is not fenced in and is accessible to anyone outside the bar. Water from the pond runs into a waterfall that cascades onto the bar's outside deck.
"Our hearts and prayers go out to the family and friends of this young man," Taylors General Manager Rich Bunt said.
Bunt said he didn't know why Martinez was kicked out of the bar.
Martinez was born in Italy, and grew up in Colorado before moving to South Jersey, his family said.
After graduating from Lenape High School in Burlington County, Martinez got a criminal justice degree at Stockton College, in Atlantic County.
Giuseppina Martinez said her son, who worked as a security guard, had recent job offers from the CIA, FBI, and New Jersey's Department of Corrections.
"He was going to stay close home I think," she said. "He wanted to stay in New Jersey."
Cherry Hill code officials said Taylors was not required to have a fence around the pond but Giuseppina Martinez questioned the bar's judgement for not doing so or at least draining the water in the winter.
"It's right out in the open," she said. "Little kids could walk up to it and fall in. You could walk through the parking lot and fall in. My son fell in."
http://www.philly.com/dailynews/local/20090103_Man_found_dead_in_frozen_pond.html

 

[cherrymeg]

Hi everyone, I went up to Taylors and drove around the waterfront/ Zee Bar looking for smiley faces. I don't know if that makes me lame but I was curious it seems so odd that two young men would die so close together (and I'm a skeptic). Taylors didn't seem to have any graffiti near it and the fountain is directly in front of the bar - it doesn't seem like the ideal place for a murder. Especially when the bar is surrounded by woods and a creek. The water front near the Zee Bar is a whole other story however. We drove down the street passing the Waterfront Square Condos, and Blue iron fence on a basically dead end street mixed with other graffiti we found a smiley face. Now I don't know exactly where Moukwa was found dead or how long the face could have been there but it seemed odd. My question for everyone here (since I have no experience what so ever with this stuff) is should I call the police? I don't want to be an alarmist and waste time but it seems weird. Here is the link I also included pics of Taylors. Other opinions would be welcomed.
Thanks! Megan
http://www.flickr.com/photos/33915135@N07/sets/72157612459271155/

 

[sandycuz]

I have been reading this site for quite some time now, and joined because of these last incidents in Philly and Cherry Hill. I have been following these murders since I heard about them on Coast To Coast back in March 2008. I have lived in the Cherry Hill area for 54 years. I have 3 sons 27, 29 and 31. They were all college students and hung out at Taylor's (previously known as Top Dog) bar many. many times. The crowd there is mostly local college students. As soon as I heard about the incident there I immediately thought of the Smiley Face murders. Then the following day, the murder of Moukwa was in the papers. It does seem very strange.
I have a disturbing story regarding Taylor's and my youngest son. At the time he was home from college (Lehigh University). I never thought anything of this incident until I began reading about these murders all over the country. Anyway, he and his brother and quite a few friends went to Taylor's to hang out. Most of the kids know one another at this club, it is usually packed on the week-ends. My son was a very smart kid and also was a soccer player in college. He fit the description of all the other boys, and he could party with the best of them. That night when they were all at Taylor's he was having a few beers, nothing much. He is very social so he was chatting with everyone that he knew back and forth the bar. Apparently, just a few hours after going to the bar, his brothers noticed that he was not right. Seemed very drunk for only having a few beers. His brother actually walked him to the car and let him sleep ther. The rest of the guys did not stay too much longer, and by 1:30 they all came home. My son had to be walked into the house and put to bed by his friends. They were worried that he wasn't quite right, so they let me know he was under the weather. He didn't get up til the next afternooon and did not remember the night before, and felt as though he got hit by a truck for the next day. This after only a few beers over a period of 1 1/2 hours??
We all thought that someone must have put something in his beer, even though he had family and friends all around, and I often wonder what would have happened had his brother not taken care of him that night.
The small pond in front of Taylor's was not always there. Previously it had been a volleyball sand court. They have done renovations in the past few years. What is strange, is that right across the highway about 300yds. from Taylor's is a river, called The Cooper River. Coincidence, Makes you wonder because there are many bars and clubs around that are not close to any rivers or waters. Also, as Filly stated, there is Interstate 95, and also Rt 295 NJ as well as many other roads that are easily accessible.
I too think that I will drive up during the day and look around to see if there are any markings on any of the buildings close by.
We do know a few local police and I am going to see what they think.. ALso, I personally do not know the owner of the club, but do have a few friends that are friendly with him, so I would like to try and get his thoughts on this. At this point he might be rather quiet, due to the situation.
Thanks! Sandy

 

[cherrymeg]

Hey Sandy, I'm new to this board too. That is really odd about what happened to your son. I've never actually been in Taylors or Top Dogs (Except to take pictures lol) but I have friends that go there. I think the media attention surrounding these deaths is good in that it makes men more aware. As a girl I've always been cautioned about not leaving drinks unattended and all those other safety precautions but guys used to think they didn't have to worry. It sounds like your son was lucky and with a good group of people I was really skeptical about the Smiley Face killings and then my friend convinced me to check out the graffiti. I tried to directly post a pic and it wouldn't work. Heres the link. We found this by the waterfront behind the Zee Bar.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/33915135@N07/3192609281/in/set-72157612459271155/

 

[sandycuz]

I am not familiar with Zee's. I was thinking about taking a ride and looking around. That doesn't look like they usual Smiley Faces, but makes you think!!Since becoming aware of all these deaths, I have been trying to educate all my sons friends and anyone else that would listen. I think that your right, guys think that nothing can happen to them. My son is 6'2 and 210. He lifts regulary so he is quite strong. The only way anyone could handle guys like these would be to slip them something. A friend of ours daughter goes to Ithica and was at the same party that the William Jacobson was found in a small pond. At the time that happened she did say that no
one really thought that he had alot to drink either. I get very frustrated to think that LE doesn't pursue this more vigorously. I believe in my heart that there is something very sinister going on here. Our prayers are with all the families.

 

[Cherish]

Filly I read your comment about the boy outside of Taylors and you said he was found face up in the fountain... Could you post the newspaper articles link? If he was found that way, I wonder if he was also found to have hit his head somehow?

In regards to the Kambili boy, I was reminded of Matt Kruziki who was found drown on 12/23/05. Matt was politically involved in a community group (now called ACORN) and he walked into a remote area down to the river.

 

[Oklahoma Mike]

I have been interested in this long list of 'drownings' and to be honest I still can't totally make up my mind. Take any of the list and look at it individually and I have to agree, drowning while intoxicated makes sense. When I first looked at the map that's when I got fascinated. This does not look random all taken together. I have looked for lists of drowned young men similar to these but no other clear pattern of geography seems to show up anywhere else in the USA. If anyone finds such numbers of deaths occur at other concentrations of college aged men then I would havae to agree with someone (can't recall who) who stated, "Either something is going on or the midwest is having a run of very, very bad luck". I no longer think it is just bad luck. Some of these kids (and I'm sorry, but at almost 56 myself that's what they are)probably did drown by accident. But I do not think all of them did. I am working on a theory, entirely speculation, which I will post when I fill it out a bit.

 

[RR0004]

I have been interested in this long list of 'drownings' and to be honest I still can't totally make up my mind. Take any of the list and look at it individually and I have to agree, drowning while intoxicated makes sense. When I first looked at the map that's when I got fascinated. This does not look random all taken together. I have looked for lists of drowned young men similar to these but no other clear pattern of geography seems to show up anywhere else in the USA. If anyone finds such numbers of deaths occur at other concentrations of college aged men then I would havae to agree with someone (can't recall who) who stated, "Either something is going on or the midwest is having a run of very, very bad luck". I no longer think it is just bad luck. Some of these kids (and I'm sorry, but at almost 56 myself that's what they are)probably did drown by accident. But I do not think all of them did. I am working on a theory, entirely speculation, which I will post when I fill it out a bit.

I look forward to reading your theory. I see there is a lot I've missed on this thread...need to catch up. I was hoping all the talk/investigation we did on here last year would have quieted things down a bit.

 

[brown]

Hi,
I am a first time poster. I have been following the smiley face killers since Chris Jenkins. I believe many of the drownings are connected, but not all. Pushing someone in the river is a convenient way to get rid of someone.

I believe the smiley face killers are "juggalos". Juggalos are followers of the band Insane Clown Posse. The band tours around the midwest and has like weekend get togethers with seminars and gatherings. They even have their own religion (believing in the "dark carnival" supreme being and a "shangri-la" heaven). They say that they are a "family", but I call it a cult or gang. The band sings songs about murder, rape sticking their male anatomy in other people's soup, etc. They say that their subliminal message is one of non-prejudice, love everyone, however, if you mess with one of the "family", watch out. Juggalos have been arrested across the country for kidnapping (Seattle), gang activity and mugging. Members sometimes wear black and white clown face paint (smiley face connection to me) and wear the band's emblem on shirts- a running man with a butcher knife (some victims said they were chased for no reason). Members are usually teenage to college age white males and females. Juggalos say that most are from broken homes or homes where their parents pay no attention to them. They pride themselves on doing, saying and wearing "whatever they want, whenever they want it". The brand of music is "psychopathic" and their members pride themselves on doing crazy things to prove that they are "down with the clown" to the family. I have been reading up on it on the internet. A lot of them are angry. Some have fun, but others are making a very bad name for the group. The band is from Detroit, but tours all over the country. I know these kids aren't just jumping or stumbling in the rivers by themselves. Someone is doing it for them. I really want to know who and why.

 

[brown]

from what I read, they have a really big follwing. Many of the juggalo groups could be doing it all over the midwest/east. They are really fed up with society and feel they don't fit in. They also are against people they call "rich *advertiser censored*". Maybe they think college kids are rich?

 

[MeoW333]

First off, a big Welcome to all of the new members! I hope you all like Websleuths =)

Brown, i've thought about the same thing and mentioned it in the past regarding juggalos possibly being involved in these drownings/murders.
I don't know that much about their "religion" so any information is appreciated!

 

[MeoW333]

I have been reading this site for quite some time now, and joined because of these last incidents in Philly and Cherry Hill. I have been following these murders since I heard about them on Coast To Coast back in March 2008. I have lived in the Cherry Hill area for 54 years. I have 3 sons 27, 29 and 31. They were all college students and hung out at Taylor's (previously known as Top Dog) bar many. many times. The crowd there is mostly local college students. As soon as I heard about the incident there I immediately thought of the Smiley Face murders. Then the following day, the murder of Moukwa was in the papers. It does seem very strange.
I have a disturbing story regarding Taylor's and my youngest son. At the time he was home from college (Lehigh University). I never thought anything of this incident until I began reading about these murders all over the country. Anyway, he and his brother and quite a few friends went to Taylor's to hang out. Most of the kids know one another at this club, it is usually packed on the week-ends. My son was a very smart kid and also was a soccer player in college. He fit the description of all the other boys, and he could party with the best of them. That night when they were all at Taylor's he was having a few beers, nothing much. He is very social so he was chatting with everyone that he knew back and forth the bar. Apparently, just a few hours after going to the bar, his brothers noticed that he was not right. Seemed very drunk for only having a few beers. His brother actually walked him to the car and let him sleep ther. The rest of the guys did not stay too much longer, and by 1:30 they all came home. My son had to be walked into the house and put to bed by his friends. They were worried that he wasn't quite right, so they let me know he was under the weather. He didn't get up til the next afternooon and did not remember the night before, and felt as though he got hit by a truck for the next day. This after only a few beers over a period of 1 1/2 hours??
We all thought that someone must have put something in his beer, even though he had family and friends all around, and I often wonder what would have happened had his brother not taken care of him that night.
The small pond in front of Taylor's was not always there. Previously it had been a volleyball sand court. They have done renovations in the past few years. What is strange, is that right across the highway about 300yds. from Taylor's is a river, called The Cooper River. Coincidence, Makes you wonder because there are many bars and clubs around that are not close to any rivers or waters. Also, as Filly stated, there is Interstate 95, and also Rt 295 NJ as well as many other roads that are easily accessible.
I too think that I will drive up during the day and look around to see if there are any markings on any of the buildings close by.
We do know a few local police and I am going to see what they think.. ALso, I personally do not know the owner of the club, but do have a few friends that are friendly with him, so I would like to try and get his thoughts on this. At this point he might be rather quiet, due to the situation.
Thanks! Sandy

Sandy, thank God your son has some good friends who looked out for him! It sounds like he had a drug slipped into his drink. His good friends most likely saved his life!

 

[MeoW333]

Hey Sandy, I'm new to this board too. That is really odd about what happened to your son. I've never actually been in Taylors or Top Dogs (Except to take pictures lol) but I have friends that go there. I think the media attention surrounding these deaths is good in that it makes men more aware. As a girl I've always been cautioned about not leaving drinks unattended and all those other safety precautions but guys used to think they didn't have to worry. It sounds like your son was lucky and with a good group of people I was really skeptical about the Smiley Face killings and then my friend convinced me to check out the graffiti. I tried to directly post a pic and it wouldn't work. Heres the link. We found this by the waterfront behind the Zee Bar.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/33915135@N07/3192609281/in/set-72157612459271155/

Hi Cherrymeg The smiley doesn't look old, it doesn't appear to be faded or show a lot of weather wear or graffiti over it. I think it would definitely be worth taking a look into. It's obvious if there is a group of people killing that not all smileys would look exactly alike. Also other factors such as rushing, chances of someone coming upon them while doing the graffiti could play a part into how the smiley comes out.

I have been interested in this long list of 'drownings' and to be honest I still can't totally make up my mind. Take any of the list and look at it individually and I have to agree, drowning while intoxicated makes sense. When I first looked at the map that's when I got fascinated. This does not look random all taken together. I have looked for lists of drowned young men similar to these but no other clear pattern of geography seems to show up anywhere else in the USA. If anyone finds such numbers of deaths occur at other concentrations of college aged men then I would havae to agree with someone (can't recall who) who stated, "Either something is going on or the midwest is having a run of very, very bad luck". I no longer think it is just bad luck. Some of these kids (and I'm sorry, but at almost 56 myself that's what they are)probably did drown by accident. But I do not think all of them did. I am working on a theory, entirely speculation, which I will post when I fill it out a bit.

Oklahoma Mike, please let us know your theory when you get the chance

 

[MeoW333]

from what I read, they have a really big follwing. Many of the juggalo groups could be doing it all over the midwest/east. They are really fed up with society and feel they don't fit in. They also are against people they call "rich *advertiser censored*". Maybe they think college kids are rich?

This is so true members of the juggalo cult are called juggalos or juggalettes. The listen to other bands aside from Insane Clown Posse, such as Dark Lotus, Twiztid, Psychopathic Rydas, Anybody Killa, Axe Murder Boyz, a bunch of different bands that fall under the juggalo category.

Here's a creepy website on the Dark Carnival "religion" (there is profanity in a lot of curse words in the site)
http://www.juggalofaith.com/?url=thedc.php

"The 6 Jokers Cards show you 6 different sides of yourself that you might have over looked. They help to show you your own evils ...Each Jokers Card is another version of you. For example, take The Ringmaster... Imagine if after you die, all your sins combined into one big monster... How big would your monster be? Ask your self that. Can you take down your own sin monster? If you can't, then your burning in Hell. If you can, then your off to Shangri-La. That's what the Ringmaster is. "

http://stickyclownjuggalos.wetpaint.com/page/The+Dark+Carnival?t=anon

"The Dark Carnival preaches to everyone in many different ways. Me and Shaggy are just one of it's ways to reach people. For example, even an old lady that plays Bingo every weekend will eventually hear the words of the Dark Carnival only it will be through a different outlet. Something that interests her will give her the message. Weather or not she acts upon it is up to her. What ever this force is, it reaches us all, whether you heed its warnings or not is your own choice. "

Their "religion" is quite odd. Here's their 13 commandments:

"And heres the 13 Juggalo Commandments if ya wanna take a look...

1.Thou shalt always holla a "whoop whoop" to let thy neighbor know you're around

2.Thou shalt not take the Dark Carnivals name in vain,else shall have ye head sliteth

3.Always stay true to thy Family as they shall be true to you

4.Thou shalt not base ye life or looks on mainstream perceptions

5.Thou shalt always keep ye shyt wicked and wild

6.If called a "Freak, Crazy, Psycho, or Deranged, etc." thou shalt raise both middle fingers and say thanks

7.Thou shalt keep ye hatchet sharp and ready for haters

8.If thou be a true Juggalo/lette, Thou shall always represent with pride

9.Thou shalt not pass judgement on another, lest it is passed on you first

10.Thou shalt always keep a blunt rolled and a beer ready for thy Homies

11.Remember if thou art faketh, we shall braketh thy *** in half

12.We are not against the world, the world is against us. So remember to keep them middle fingers ready

13.Be wut we wanna be,act how we wanna act,see wut we wanna see."

Link:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080512120340AAYg06g

Their music is sociopathic, psychopathic. We've had various different cases on here involving juggalos murdering others already. I'm sure there's a lot more out there.

 

[Oklahoma Mike]

I seem to have sparked interest with my talk of a theory. Let me emphasize I am an amateur and make no claims to any training in real profiling. If I had a few years of law enforcement experience I might be able to be a real profiler as I do have the education and background in psychology. But to do real profiling a person needs both and I'm at best half there! I have read a lot on the subject but I am entirely self taught. Don't confuse me with a professional.
I have tried to develop a set of behaviors and consistent personality that would fit with most of the facts we have about these drowning deaths of young men. Be aware that other 'theories' which fit the facts are also possible to conceive and be just as valid and likely as mine if not more so. Much of these ideas were developed by bouncing ideas back and forth with my wife so she deserves as much credit as I do. That said:
I believe some of these deaths were accidental drownings but not all. I believe the killer was inspired to the idea and action by reading about a real drowning of just the type of person he wanted to kill. Yes, I believe there is a single killer preying on young, talented, college-aged men in the midwest. I do not believe it is gang related for the simple reason that no gang or group could keep this totally quiet for the 10 years or so. I think it was Churchill who said, "Two people CAN keep a secret, as long as one of them is dead!". In every city with gang activity the police have people on the periphery or the gang itself as sources of information. Just think, how often do we read of a gang crime where the cops immediately recognize it for such and even have a good idea who might be involved? If even half of these deaths are not accidental the only way to keep it totally secret is for only one person to know.
So, if it is one man killing what do we look for?
A man, he knows the each of the campuses and towns well and travels among them at least part of the time with his work, he will have started killing in his mid to late 20's so is mid 30's now. He understands college kids and can put them at ease. He is a college grad himself. He grew up and went to school somewhere in he geographic area of the killings and knows the region very well. He is at least average strength and knows how to handle an unconscious person. He is very patient, thoughtful to the point of obsessive, and very intelligent. Perhaps he is the most intelligent killer ever in the USA. And THAT is his motivation. To be so good and so careful that he is invisible. Nobody relieves he is even real. Some killers (best example Zodiac) like to rub authorities noses in the fact they can't catch him. This killer takes it one step further, he wants to fool them into believing he is not there. What gets him off besides the ultimate control of killing (which is what all serial killers are after) is the necessity of SUPERIORITY. He wants to prove himself better than anybody. He can kill someone and the next week the Chief of Police is on television saying he doesn't exist. The next day he can walk past the police station and nobody even sees him. From his point of view. He does not send letters or such because HE knows and that is all that matters. He is careful, he has a checklist of what has to go just right to carry through all the steps in the crime. If everything does not go right, he aborts his 'mission'. For every young man thrown unconscious or already dead into the river he may drive 10 back to their dorm, just like he said he would. If his intended victim waves to somebody, if he sees a cop car in the area, etc. he does not carry out the killing.
I think he knows the college towns and trolls late at night, especially cold nights, for a lone, athletic young man walking alone and offers him a ride, and a beer, laced with some sedative which disappears rapidly from the system and is hard to find unless looked for specifically. He picks this type of victim out of jealousy. He went to college but was rejected for his final goals. Maybe he did not get accepted to law school, or medical school. So he kills young men he perceives successful. He is also getting back at society and education for not recognizing his true merit. He is proving he is the smartest and best. These are his motivations.
I propose, for example, this could be a man who is a college recruiter for some major company. He travels to various job fairs at universities looking for the bright young men his company wants. That is how he knows the geography and specifics of college towns, where the students like to party, how and were, and how they travel back and forth. He knows where to troll, and where there is easy access to water deep enough to ensure drowning. He has been to each campus and town a number of times before killing in one. He knows how to talk with college kids and put them at ease, and how to size them up. It is his job to do just that. He lives and works in the midwest, maybe Chicago or Minneapolis. He travels to the campus he has chosen next on the weekends (mostly) in his own car. All the areas are in range of a weekend drive. Now to REALLY speculate, and that is all this is, maybe he works for a chemical or pharmaceutical company. Somebody with access to samples and understands enough of how they work. Maybe he got that job after failing to get into med school. Maybe the main reason he did not get accepted was something on the psychological exam. Not really overt, just something not quite right.
I could go on, but this post is too long already. Also please note I have no idividual in mind, and several alternatives to this idea come to mind quickly. Maybe he's not a recruiter, but a salesman whose company sells mostly to colleges, or a traveling lecturer, or an adjunct professor at a couple of schools. He could even be a scout for a pro sports team (now don't get upset Packers or Steelers fans). Not that I think he really IS any of the professions I mention, just that they would fit. Maybe this is all coincidence and he really doesn't exist. See what I mean?

 

[MeoW333]

Wow, Oklahoma Mike, your profiling really blew me away there. Do you think he could even be a military recruiter? You definitely have a lot of good points you make!

 

[Blackwatch]

Good theory, Oklahoma Mike, one I've sorta run through my own mind but rejected.

First, many of these students appeared to get very drunk, disorderly, early on, IN THE BAR, which led me to believe there might be a bartender conspiracy, LOL, not really, but not beyond the realm of possibility either. Someone IN the bar appears to be spiking drinks.

Secondly, I don't believe many of these deaths, 1% or less is my guess, are ACCIDENTS. I've spoken to a lot of drunks in my time, and imbibed a bit myself and no one I've ever heard of or talked to heads for the water. A drunk wants to get home, go to sleep, or go have breakfast, OR get a last minute shot at LOVE. Water isn't a great attraction for someone under the weather.

I don't think, but I could be wrong, that one man acting alone, would be able to wrestle some of these bodies (passed out dead weight) out of a car and into the water without being seen. Some of these kids might weigh as much as he does.

Next, I believe someone would have to have a better motive for murder than revenge for not getting into law school, etc. I believe there has to be something else.

While I think you have a great idea and appreciate your sharing it, I lean more toward the killer cult theory. Some of these groups CAN keep their mouths shut or they get them shut permanently.

My opinion only

 

[brown]

article about Juggalos in the midwest. I haven't heard of the group until a few weeks ago. They are being linked to kidnappings, murders and many other things.

http://bygonebureau.com/2007/07/02/misogynist-clowns-wreak-havoc-in-heartland/

 

[brown]

another article of a Juggalo murderer

http://crimene.ws/2009/01/26/did-a-juggalo-kill-a-13-year-old-girl/