Deaths of Male College Students-General Discussion #5

[gogrannypop]

A few of these happened where I live. That is an interesting theory. I don't believe the students here were Native American, but there is a reservation about 15 miles away.

Welcome to WS!

 

[Reannan]

OK............

There were 8 men found accidentally drowned in Rapid City, South Dakota between 5/98 and 7/4/2000. 6 of the 8 were Native American and all but one was known to drink. From what I read, three of the victims were found in the span of one week. No trauma to the bodies, all had high levels of ETOH in system but one. No witnesses. Sound familiar?.......

Hello Mysterygirl - do you have a link to that research? That is really interesting!

 

[Cherish]

Mysterygirl, I had once brought up the Dakota drownings. I happen to believe this was how,whoever is responsible , tested his/her theory. You definitely found a lot of information I hadn't read about. Great research. It convinces me. I hope there is an end to all of this soon.

 

[mysterygirl]

Hi............I didn't know it was ever mentioned! And yes, I do think this was a way to test this "method" or the idea was carried out there and hey...it worked.


I compiled this info. from several sources/articles and updates on these killings. A lot of the info had to do with Native American discrimination. But what are the odds, I mean really........definitely fishy!

 

[brown]

here is the link to the South Dakota drownings. The article was dated 1999- the year Kristi's list of victims started to go missing.

http://articles.latimes.com/1999/sep/26/news/mn-14207

Article By Chet Brokaw of the LA Times
September 26, 1999

 

[brown]

Here is a view of the article

When the first few bodies turned up in the gurgling trout stream that runs through a park in this city on the edge of the Black Hills, the deaths drew little attention. Police investigated, but all the evidence indicated that the homeless men had spent their days and nights drinking along Rapid Creek and simply passed out and drowned.


As more men died, however, law officers became suspicious. The deaths now total eight in 16 months, three this year. In typical years, only about one homeless person turns up drowned here.

"There's just too many of them to say it's coincidence. But it could be," Police Chief Tom Hennies says.

Authorities have no witnesses. There are no bullet holes, stab wounds or evidence of other injuries. Police don't know where most of the men entered the stream.

What investigators know is that six of the eight were Indians, and all but one had been drinking heavily just before they died. Most had blood alcohol levels of at least 0.25%, or more than 2 1/2 times the 0.1% level at which drivers are presumed to be drunk.

The homeless people who live under bridges along the creek believe someone is pushing helpless drinkers into the water.

Clement Standing Elk says he and other street people no longer risk hanging out alone. "We go around in packs."

Standing Elk is among those who blame racist skinheads, and says the creek people have banded together to chase some of them away.

The homeless and others complain that the police and Pennington County Sheriff's Department are doing little to investigate the deaths because most of the victims are Indians, men whose names included Benjamin P. Long Wolf, Randelle E. Two Crow and Loren J. Two Bulls.

The latest to die was Timothy Bull Bear Sr., 49, from the town of Allen on the Pine Ridge Reservation. His body was pulled from the creek July 8.

"We don't know what else to do. We've done everything we can do," Hennies says.

The two men who lead the task force investigating the deaths say they have even asked themselves whether they would do anything differently if the dead men had been affluent whites.

Chief Sheriff's Deputy De Glassgow says he believes the investigation is being conducted in the same way it would be if all the victims had been white. And police Capt. Craig Tieszen says he is not embarrassed about how the cases have been handled.

 

[mysterygirl]

That is one of the articles I read.

Another mentioned that one victim was in the seated position, that's an interesting way to drown.

Locals were so convinced of foul play, they had "creek walks" for security against the unknown offenders. Volunteers would patrol the area!

 

[Cherish]

A Roster of Victims

The men who have died over the last 16 months along Rapid Creek in Rapid City, S.D.:

* Benjamin P. Long Wolf, 36, sometimes worked as construction laborer. Blood alcohol content was 0.374%. Found May 21, 1998.

* George E. Hatten Jr., 56, artist. Blood alcohol content was 0.364%. Found May 31, 1998.

* Alan Hough, 42, no occupation. Only small amount of alcohol in blood. Found July 4, 1998.

* Randelle E. Two Crow, 48, no occupation. Blood alcohol content was 0.515%. Found Dec. 8, 1998.

* Loren J. Two Bulls, 33, artist. Blood alcohol content was 0.531%. Found Dec. 9, 1998.

* Dirk R. Bartling, 44, sometimes worked as carpenter. Blood alcohol content was 0.288%. Found May 29.

* Arthur J. Chamberlain, 45, no occupation. Elevated blood alcohol content. Found June 7.

* Timothy Bull Bear Sr., 49, educator. Blood alcohol content was 0.26%. Found July 8.



These are the South Dakota drownings listed from the article that "brown" has posted. I can't believe that the police or anyone else did not find the dates suspicious. It looks like they are very similar to the LaCrosse drownings. It seems as though there is a two week window, late in the month or early in the month.I know D. Lee Gilbertson mentioned an early month pattern. Anyway here are the LaCrosse drowning dates taken from the website: http://footprintsattheriversedge.blogspot.com/


LaCrosse Wisconsin 1997-2006

1997 July 11 Richard Hiavaty
1997 Sept. 28 Charles Blatz
1997 Oct. 10 Anthony D. "Tony' Skifton
1998 Feb. 18(22) Nathan Kapfer
1999 April 11 Jeffery Geesey
2001 March 01 Patrick Runingen
2002 Oct. 31 Chris Jenkins
2004 April 10 Jared Dion
2004 June Gorgon J. Stumlin Jr.

 

[daisygirl]

A couple of more interesting points from http://sfkillers.com/

"The pants that Josh was wearing on the night he disappeared appear to be different than the ones he was wearing when he was recovered. All of Josh’s clothes were returned to his family. However, the pants are missing. None of the investigating agencies can account for the whereabouts of the pants.

* The celtic cross neck chain that Josh always wore is missing."

Also at the same link is a story on Larry King. Regarding the Patrick Mcneil case, they said now that there was fly eggs in his groin area. House fly eggs, which means his body was dead before entering the water. Also they mentioned ligature and burn marks on his body?? They said it is not new evidence, but the medical examiner had noted it right away, but the police never did any thing with this.

Thoughts???
Question: If the men are truly being killed before being put in the water, why? What are they doing with the bodies inbetween? How do they still come up with enough evidence on the autopsy to conclude drowning? what are your thoughts on the "missing men" that are never recovered?

 

[cursed13]

A couple of more interesting points from http://sfkillers.com/

"The pants that Josh was wearing on the night he disappeared appear to be different than the ones he was wearing when he was recovered. All of Josh’s clothes were returned to his family. However, the pants are missing. None of the investigating agencies can account for the whereabouts of the pants.

* The celtic cross neck chain that Josh always wore is missing."

Also at the same link is a story on Larry King. Regarding the Patrick Mcneil case, they said now that there was fly eggs in his groin area. House fly eggs, which means his body was dead before entering the water. Also they mentioned ligature and burn marks on his body?? They said it is not new evidence, but the medical examiner had noted it right away, but the police never did any thing with this.

Thoughts???
Question: If the men are truly being killed before being put in the water, why? What are they doing with the bodies inbetween? How do they still come up with enough evidence on the autopsy to conclude drowning? what are your thoughts on the "missing men" that are never recovered?

they torture them alive for the andenaline rush its addictive just like the takedown and killing is.they may also sexually abuse them.there are ways to torture someone without making cuts and bruises on th body.most of the bodies are killed and dumped right away.i think that something goes wrong in the takedown process and they gotta take the bodies with them and leave right away then they dump them months/weeks later.maybe the pants had evidence on them and the killers destroyed them.

 

[brown]

It's too bad we couldn't contact someone to get autopsy reports on each drowing victim. Some of the blood alcohol percentages listed on the previous page were way high, not compatable with life. That's weird about the pants. Someone has to be doing this on purpose.

 

[brown]

if someone dies before drowning, they wouldn't have water in their lungs, would they?

 

[brown]

If only this student would remember what happened to him before he went into the river.

January 12, 2006

Rumors are flying all over La Crosse about a University of Wisconsin student who says he had a near-death experience in the river. In a most remarkable story, the as of yet unidentified man claims he was drinking with friends in a downtown bar until about 1:45 AM on Sunday, January 8 -- but then somehow ended up in the middle of the Mississippi.

He doesn't know how he got in the water, but he knows how he got out.

According to an article in the La Crosse Tribune, the student "found himself in the river, fighting a strong current that was rapidly carrying him downstream. After an estimated 15 minutes, he was able to grab onto a tall concrete structure and pull himself to shore, where he likely passed out . . ."

Around 7:00 AM that morning, the 21-year-old showed up at a nearby hospital. Confused, covered in mud, and missing his shirt and shoes, he was unable to provide any details of what had happened to him.

Apparently no one witnessed the incident or any of the events that led up to it.

If true, the student's bizarre experience may provide investigators with valuable information and insights into the drowned student phenomenon. Over a seven-year period, seven young men from La Crosse went missing and were subsequently found dead in area rivers.

The Tribune quotes police chief Ed Kondracki as being "relieved and pleased to know the man survived, but disappointed to hear another intoxicated young man had fallen into the river."

Not so fast, Chief.

No one should be relieved or pleased about this story. How do we know the man FELL into the river? Maybe he did, but then, why can't he recall where, when or how? Something doesn't add up here. Was he, in fact, ALONE the entire time?

Chief Kondracki may be relieved, but I'm unnerved to hear that -- as in so many of these mysterious cases -- this student had somehow become separated from his hat, coat, shoes and cell phone.

 

[cursed13]

If only this student would remember what happened to him before he went into the river.

January 12, 2006

Rumors are flying all over La Crosse about a University of Wisconsin student who says he had a near-death experience in the river. In a most remarkable story, the as of yet unidentified man claims he was drinking with friends in a downtown bar until about 1:45 AM on Sunday, January 8 -- but then somehow ended up in the middle of the Mississippi.

He doesn't know how he got in the water, but he knows how he got out.

According to an article in the La Crosse Tribune, the student "found himself in the river, fighting a strong current that was rapidly carrying him downstream. After an estimated 15 minutes, he was able to grab onto a tall concrete structure and pull himself to shore, where he likely passed out . . ."

Around 7:00 AM that morning, the 21-year-old showed up at a nearby hospital. Confused, covered in mud, and missing his shirt and shoes, he was unable to provide any details of what had happened to him.

Apparently no one witnessed the incident or any of the events that led up to it.

If true, the student's bizarre experience may provide investigators with valuable information and insights into the drowned student phenomenon. Over a seven-year period, seven young men from La Crosse went missing and were subsequently found dead in area rivers.

The Tribune quotes police chief Ed Kondracki as being "relieved and pleased to know the man survived, but disappointed to hear another intoxicated young man had fallen into the river."

Not so fast, Chief.

No one should be relieved or pleased about this story. How do we know the man FELL into the river? Maybe he did, but then, why can't he recall where, when or how? Something doesn't add up here. Was he, in fact, ALONE the entire time?

Chief Kondracki may be relieved, but I'm unnerved to hear that -- as in so many of these mysterious cases -- this student had somehow become separated from his hat, coat, shoes and cell phone.

i dont think he remembers anything anymore.ghb kills your memory while your on it.the bar scene is really interesting from my research etc.some people take their drinks to the restrooms.if someone were to taint someones drink with ghb they would go outside thinking the fresh air would get the cloudyness out of their minds but it would actually intensify and they walk or fall into the killers arms,that is so perfect.
if he fell there would be bruises from the fall.
if you pass out and fall smack on your face your face is gonna get bruised or maybe even busted open.
coats,hats,shoes whatever is all possible evidence,was possible.
i am deciding on which 5 drownings to start with when im gonna get the data for all off them and write my theories.

 

[fran]

If you view the most recent post on the media link about the GMA broadcast 3/23/2009, you see where Joshua Szostaki's dad showed a video of Josh his last night. One minute he's completely sober, just ordering his second drink. The next few minutes, he's outside the bar, appearing very drunk. I don't believe these young men necessarily know what happened to them.

The Booth young man last year. One minute he was sitting around the bar ordering everyone drinks. He excused himself to go to the restroom and the next time anyone sees him is a few days later drowned.

Someone is doing something to these young guys. Now...................IF LE would just listen. They've even had senators or congressmen or whatever, ask for an investigation, and NOTHING.

Ms. Piehl has now connected 70...............and counting, imho.

JMHO
fran

 

[cursed13]

you know what i mean if you fall in a creek with the rocks etc.you know you can get hurt if your trying to walk through them sober during the day so if you pass out cold your gonna get banged up.so the accident scene pics might be helpful.i think its best to focus on 5-6 cases first.then prove that they was foul play.i believe the evidence to prove it ,is gone for most of the cases.i only have a pic folder so far im gonna make a folder for the rest 13 victims.thencollect data see what i can do with it.i dont have alot of free time.

i was thinking about the killers and i believe they are very comfortable around rivers ,lakes,and creeks.the water is a friend to them.

 

[mysterygirl]

Many of these victims have NO sign of trauma. I read several victims had very LITTLE water in the lungs but it was still ruled accidental drowning and drowning by asphyxia was mentioned in some scenarios.

I think the men that are still missing, never found.....fought back and maybe too much trauma would be seen on the body to rule the death accidental....so they are killed and hidden....another words, something goes wrong.

Again, I realize that some of these are accidents.........but no way do I believe all of them are.

Great find about the pants. There are these little clues, I bet intentional, that are links.....for instance, cell phones will be missing or found far away from the body, the jacket will be missing, the shoes placed neatly at the waters edge.....

Also the high ETOH levels. Not only were some so high they were deadly...but in one case the victim would have had to walk around a mile or over to get to the river (expert said no way) meaning he was brought to the water.

There were also some cases where the alcohol level just did not match up with the amount witnesses claimed the victim drank............

 

[cursed13]

Many of these victims have NO sign of trauma. I read several victims had very LITTLE water in the lungs but it was still ruled accidental drowning and drowning by asphyxia was mentioned in some scenarios.

I think the men that are still missing, never found.....fought back and maybe too much trauma would be seen on the body to rule the death accidental....so they are killed and hidden....another words, something goes wrong.

Again, I realize that some of these are accidents.........but no way do I believe all of them are.

Great find about the pants. There are these little clues, I bet intentional, that are links.....for instance, cell phones will be missing or found far away from the body, the jacket will be missing, the shoes placed neatly at the waters edge.....

Also the high ETOH levels. Not only were some so high they were deadly...but in one case the victim would have had to walk around a mile or over to get to the river (expert said no way) meaning he was brought to the water.

There were also some cases where the alcohol level just did not match up with the amount witnesses claimed the victim drank............

i also believe the victims that were not found something went wrong with the process,and one of their laws may be to not dump the body into water it something goes wrong.they have a set of laws they follow and rules.in other words they have a playbook.

it is most definatly some kind of drug and they know the exact dose for the body weight.for a few cases it may have been that the victim was already very drunk and then theres no need for the drugging step.its more challenging to execute the takedown with someone being only drunk because even if your very drunk fear will sober you very fast,instant.
i know theres more then one way to execute the takedown.you could use a stungun also.but in a party atmosphere were everyone except a few are getting wasted on all kinds of drugs ,a drug is used almost every time to execute the takedown ,isolation process.it fits in perfect.

see they have steps they take and when something dont go as planned they have other steps they can take to ensure 100% success or 99.9% as only maybe 2-3 really got lucky and got away.
someof them i beleive were simply lured away into a isolated place,someone might have asked them to meet them somewhere at a certain time,a freind.
someone outside might ask them if they wanna smoke some weed but we gotta go somewhere else to smoke.
so theres many ways but im first dealing with the ones that were drugged.
the case files have alot more usable info.after reading th jenkins case files you get a better idea what might have happened.

 

[cursed13]

If you view the most recent post on the media link about the GMA broadcast 3/23/2009, you see where Joshua Szostaki's dad showed a video of Josh his last night. One minute he's completely sober, just ordering his second drink. The next few minutes, he's outside the bar, appearing very drunk. I don't believe these young men necessarily know what happened to them.

The Booth young man last year. One minute he was sitting around the bar ordering everyone drinks. He excused himself to go to the restroom and the next time anyone sees him is a few days later drowned.

Someone is doing something to these young guys. Now...................IF LE would just listen. They've even had senators or congressmen or whatever, ask for an investigation, and NOTHING.

Ms. Piehl has now connected 70...............and counting, imho.

JMHO
fran

theres no doubt booth was murdered.he got a death threat a week before he went missing.

 

[cursed13]

if you read the jenkins case files there is a person i forget the name BUT on that halloween night they were very upset to put it lightly.they were frightened to the point they could not talk function properly and stayed at someone elses house that night to calm down.that person i beleive knows something.i just read it last night so i dont remember her name.
i got files for jenkins,booth and im getting 11 more.like i said before i repair pc's and i build them.i own 5 powerful computers.and various peripherals,external drives so I HAVE THE SPACE FOR ALL THE DATA EASILY:clap:i also have access to almost any software i might need.
i will be able to achive everything.there might also be a big back story involved also.

im gonna start with 13 cases i believe relavent.