GUILTY Denmark - Kim Wall, 30, Copenhagen, 10 Aug 2017

[Niner]

Robin Elizabeth Herr
@CaliforniaRobin
·
3m
The defense is very thorough. The witness appears very patient, good at explaining why she did not do other investigations and why she is confident of her information. She drinks a glass of water. Later, she sighs. #petermadsen #submarinecase #submarinetrial #kimwall #dkjura


Sorry - but I have to leave - hopefully someone else can pick up the tweets!

Later!

 

[Shiressleuth]

TYVM Niner. It looks like court is pausing till 13:20 now.

That is very confident testimony by the witness imo that CO poisoning did not take place .

 

[Legally Bland]

Robin Elizabeth Herr
‏

@CaliforniaRobin
39m39 minutes ago
More
#PeterMadsen raises his hands up what looks like frustration. Does he want to ask the questions.

Defense: #PeterMadsen could have opened the hatch after #KimWall's death because a whole bunch of air could have come out of the compressor, thus lifting the sucking pressure which had previously made the hatch impossible to open.

Answer: That can't happen. I am 100% sure. Defense: So it's good that we will talk to the Technological Institute later.

Now #PeterMadsen, the defense attorney, prosecutor and the witness have walked to the bench up to the judge to talk about a photo.

Judge: So there aren't any more questions. We will pause until 13:20.

Summary:Witness makes 2 points:1.There was no sign of poisonous gasses in the motor filters 2. There was no sign of poisonous gasses in the air. Is this enough to convince the judges that #PeterMadsen’s explanation for #KimWall’s is wrong?

 

[solar]

@julieastridthom
44m
Madsen's defence and the witness is discussing technical issues about the engines. The defence attorney hushes Madsen, who stands next to her trying to interrupt @SkyNews #SubmarineTrial #KimWall #PeterMadsen https://news.sky.com/story/live-witnesses-give-evidence-at-submarine-murder-trial-11314959

 

[SATA]

Civil engineer,

Kim Vinther​

from Institute of Technology is on the stand.
He has never been on Nautilus, but has been tasked with evaluating a document Peter Madsen has made, titled: Calculation of events on Nautilus, after 10 pm August 10.
Also enclosed are two drawings by PM,

This is going to get very technical.

The reporter from Ekstra Bladet doesn´t cover it more than saying that the document is being read aloud in court, and that it describes three different scenarios that could have caused Kim Wall´s death.

 

[SATA]

The live stream has stopped. Not sure why.

 

[Shiressleuth]

The live stream has stopped. Not sure why.

https://mobile.twitter.com/californiarobin?lang=en

Here's the link to @californiarobin tweets.

Robin is still tweeting. There was a pause while the seven pages were read out loud, I understand.

 

[Moll]

Have solved my problem with Twitter - it was so simple it's too embarrassing to relate. Thanks all. And now they are giving 15 minutes to Madsen. They are certainly bending over backwards to give him his say.

 

[SATA]

Have solved my problem with Twitter - it was so simple it's too embarrassing to relate. Thanks all. And now they are giving 15 minutes to Madsen. They are certainly bending over backwards to give him his say.

To eliminate grounds for appeal.

He is minced meat, is my estimate at this point, but I have been vastly wrong about outcomes of verdicts before, so don´t listen to me!

 

[Moll]

I agree with you entirely, and thought the submarine engineer was a very effective witness. As you say, the judge must make sure there are no grounds for appeal.

 

[Legally Bland]

Just a few bits.

Peter Madsen has explained that a defect on a submarine valve made it difficult to operate, just as he did not follow the necessary procedure on launch after diving on August 10 last year.

He has calculated three scenarios where drain valve 3 was open and hull valve 4 was respectively 1) completely closed, 2) fully open, 3) partially open.

The conclusions are reproduced in a legal book of 12 March.

Conclusion on scenario 1:
The underwater boat will not be manually opened after less than 40 seconds with closed hatch and that the engine room is toxic due to carbon dioxide (and possibly carbon monoxide) after just two and half minutes. The entire boat may be toxic after eight minutes. As mentioned above, carbon monoxide is not taken into account, which could further aggravate the situation.

Conclusion on scenario 2:
In this case, the pressure on board will fall very quickly and a situation like scenario 1 will occur in a short period of time. Due to the low pressure, carbon dioxide concentration will become more toxic soon (about 5% vol) and there will be increased danger due to the simultaneous decreasing oxygen partial pressure. In this scenario, the time at which the lid can be opened manually will be reduced from less than 40 seconds to less than 10 seconds, as the outflow is good 4 times higher.

Conclusion on scenario 3:
Based on the calculation of carbon dioxide emission and loss of pressure from Scenario 1 and 2, it can be concluded that regardless of the unknown position of valve 4, the possibility of opening the submarine's hatches is manually lost after 40 seconds and possibly even before. Based on the same one can conclude that the atmosphere in the engine room has become toxic for less than two and a half minutes, especially in the zone between the two engines, as the exhaust zone is located here. After opening the engine door, the rest of the submarine's atmosphere will be destroyed less than eight minutes after the air closure. However, it is unlikely that it has been going on for so long.

https://ekstrabladet.dk/112/live-ek...-ikke-raabe-til-madsen-gennem-ubaaden/7100998

[FONT=&amp]Robin Elizabeth Herr‏ @CaliforniaRobin 1h1 hour ago
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]The witness says that #PeterMadsen didn't includ temperture rise. Though it could work against the pressure, it is not enough to elminate it. The 3 scenarios mean that the temperature would rise to 100 celcius within 4-7 minutes.


[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Robin Elizabeth Herr‏ @CaliforniaRobin 14m14 minutes ago
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]The judge asks #PeterMadsen to stick what the his attorney asks and not to expand on things he has already said.
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Robin Elizabeth Herr‏ @CaliforniaRobin 10m10 minutes ago
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]#PeterMadsen was again contentious today. The prosecution thought he changed his testimony & asked about it. He said, I have already told you but you are reading too much in it. Then the defense attorney took over.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Robin Elizabeth Herr‏ @CaliforniaRobin 6m6 minutes ago
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]The court is finished for the day.Thanks for the company. In the next two days, we hope to hear about #PeterMadsens mental state and maybe his wife will give testimony. Otherwise, the court will rely on what she has told the police.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]
Much more at links.[/FONT]

 

[Legally Bland]

[FONT=&amp]Julie Astrid Thomsen‏ @julieastridthom 22m22 minutes agoMore
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]The prosecutor complains that the defence attorney is allowed to continuously question her client Peter Madsen in "a case of this nature". The judge allows the questioning to proceed
[/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]Julie Astrid Thomsen‏ @julieastridthom 19m19 minutes agoMore
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Defence attorney asks in connection with a witness saying earlier that there would be too much noise from the engines to communicate: "Are you sure, you could hear Kim Wall?" Madsen: "I could hear her calling, yes."

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Julie Astrid Thomsen‏ @julieastridthom 20m20 minutes agoMore
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Defence: "Did you empty the compressors?" Peter Madsen: "I washed them around 4 times." A witness today said it would take 4-6 washes before gases would be at a level that wasn't dangerous
[/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]Julie Astrid Thomsen‏ @julieastridthom 14m14 minutes agoMore
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]The prosecutor accuses Madsen of changing his story as the case proceeds: He told the police earlier, he washed the compressors 3 times, but after today's testimony from captain lieutenant Ditte Dyreborg, he says 4 times
[/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]Julie Astrid Thomsen‏ @julieastridthom 11m11 minutes agoMore
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Peter Madsen has left the stand and day 8 of the #SubmarineTrial is over. I am back tomorrow covering the case live for @SkyNews. Tomorrow, the prosecutor will present technical evidence. Whether Madsen's ex wife will testify at one point, is still unknown
[/FONT]

 

[SATA]

I thought Peter Madsens wife was the witness who got granted closed doors and PM in another room.

Guess it wasn´t her. Or what?

 

[Shiressleuth]

He changes his versions with the wind to cover his own *advertiser censored*se. When is the prosecutor going to ask why he didn't call for assistance instead of texting his wife?

Am I remembering the previous medical evidence correctly that they found oxygen in KW's lungs when the autopsy was done and that's why they think her throat was cut or she was strangled? That just doesn't fit with his "scenarios" does it? I think he's toast.

 

[Niner]

Thanks for picking up on the tweets!

I noticed on the tweets she started with Witness #28 and ended with Witness #31.... :thinking: I had 33 witnesses already before today. Okay - I give up on keeping count!

 

[Moll]

Thanks for picking up on the tweets!

I noticed on the tweets she started with Witness #28 and ended with Witness #31.... :thinking: I had 33 witnesses already before today. Okay - I give up on keeping count!

I thought you already had?!
I don't think we've mentioned here the witness between the two technical witnesses who saw Madsen on his way to the submarine carrying the saw on the afternoon of 10 August - continuing the prosecution effort to establish intention, though it seems pretty clear already that he took the saw on that afternoon, since it was filmed by the camera crew during the interview he did that day. Read from the bottom up.


@julieastridthom3h

Madsen's defence asks the witness if it's correct that he doesn't have any knowledge of how Madsen normally looks when he walks. Witness: "That is correct." @SkyNews #SubmarineTrial #KimWall#PeterMadsen

@julieastridthom3h

"He walked very determined and looked very fixedly forward like he didn't want to be accosted by anyone," the male witness tells the court of Peter Madsen's state of mind on Aug. 10 @SkyNews#SubmarineTrial #KimWall #PeterMadsen


@julieastridthom3h

"He was very determined. He didn't fit in the image of everyone out there. All people were happy and it didn't seem like he was," the male witness, who was working at the "Haven" festival on Refshaleøen, tells the court @SkyNews #SubmarineTrial #KimWall #PeterMadsen


@julieastridthom3h

The prosecutor shows the witness the saw found by the police. Witness: "Yes, that is the saw." @SkyNews #SubmarineTrial #KimWall#PeterMadsen


@julieastridthom3h

The witness was around five metres from Madsen who was wearing a green boiler suit. "What I first notice when I see him is that I see a saw sticking up in the middle of the crowd," the man tells the court @SkyNews #SubmarineTrial #KimWall #PeterMadsen

 

[Moll]

He changes his versions with the wind to cover his own *advertiser censored*se. When is the prosecutor going to ask why he didn't call for assistance instead of texting his wife?

Am I remembering the previous medical evidence correctly that they found oxygen in KW's lungs when the autopsy was done and that's why they think her throat was cut or she was strangled? That just doesn't fit with his "scenarios" does it? I think he's toast.

I think so. I can only find the Mail article quickly, but I think others said the same:

"Today, the medical examiner said it was an unlikely scenario as 'the air seems not to have been able to leave the lungs, which is not the case with lack of oxygen or inhalation of gases.'"
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ial-hears.html

 

[Shiressleuth]

If the temperature rose to 100ºC within 4-7 minutes that would cause death. Humans cannot survive above 60º C as I understand it. I cannot believe PM would make such an error and I don't believe he heard her either.

 

[Moll]

Quite a few articles have now appeared...nothing new to us, all highlighting Ditte Dyreborg's evidence and regarding it as destructive to PM's claims. This one stresses that no gases were found:
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/new...-submarine-murder-suspect-s-defence--10100696


but also says of the earlier evidence:
'The coroner could however not rule out poisoning as a result of toxic fumes.'

I don't remember that.

 

[Shiressleuth]

From the article:


Prosecutor Buch-Jepsen claims Madsen tied up and tortured Miss Wall before killing her, either by cutting her throat or strangling her.

The murder has been called premeditated because he had brought along tools he normally would not take with him on the submarine.

Coroner Christina Jacobsen testified Thursday about numerous lesions found on Wall's torso and head, with much of the questioning focused on the more-than two dozen stab wounds to her genital area.

She told the court that some of the cuts to the torso would have to have been inflicted before the moment of death.

The court heard that there was no conclusive evidence to prove the cause of death beyond doubt, but that coroners believe the 30-year-old had her airways 'cut off'.

Ms Jacobsen said this would be 'due to either strangulation, throat cutting or drowning,' she said.

The court also heard that Miss Wall had several lesions on her neck and jaw which would have been inflicted while she was still alive.

Ms Jacobsen told the court that the head may have been restrained, strapped down or that Miss Wall was 'gagged'.


BBM


Seems likely that he filmed it all.

Just bumping this as a reminder about the medical evidence.