Hannah Graham: Remains Identified

[mika_cat]

My ex husband lives in Charlottesville. He told me he played poker at a friend's house with JM 4 days after Hannah went missing. My ex says nothing was strange about JM's demeanor, he acted completely normal and nothing seemed out of the ordinary.. although this was my ex's first time meeting him. SO scary and insane that someone could (allegedly) rape and murder a person and continue on living his life as if nothing happened. :/

 

[mika_cat]

I said early on, he going to say he dropped her off. He's going to say he had no idea what happened to her. The good news is-- is that he no stranger to Old Lynchburg. He's also very Lazy in his mentality but drives fast. ( And drove fast through that area) He also ducked in the police station and asked for an attorney and then speed away. Saving his own narcissistic self. He's not going to be compliant and wasn't in this case. The forensic link to Fairfax is good... so he is now busted for the rape attempt. I don't think it took very long for Hannah to recognize he is a creep. I still find it odd that she was so close to her apartment and thought she was lost. As a second year sophomore.. that shouldn't happen.

Has it been confirmed where Hannah really was when that text was sent? I wouldn't be shocked if JM took her phone and sent that text himself, if not.

 

[mika_cat]

See, that's what I don't get. She wasn't far from her apartment. ( The big question) Why would she get in that car? Was she forced? He must have bullied her.. but I can't see her getting in that car. LE has the car but have not released the results of her being in it. (fiber/hair samples- DNA)

He might have pulled out his taxi badge.. but she wasn't that far from her apartment.

I was young and silly and naive at one point- I have taken rides from people I just met. Incredibly stupid, looking back. I was lucky none of them were rapists or serial killers. Hannah might have thought some nice guy was just offering her a ride. :/

 

[Heroine]

Camblos says he met with his client at the Abemarle Charlottesville Regional Jail earlier on Friday, the day that positive identification was made on Graham's remains but that neither he nor Matthew received any official notification. "They have TV that's on like 24/7, so I'm sure he knows by now."

One thing Camblos wants the public to know is that, whatever the people think of his client, that his family, the Carrs, are hard-working, devout, and saddened by the deaths of Morgan Harrington and Hannah Graham.

bbm
http://wvtf.org/post/matthews-defender-ready-his-closeup

 

[Conductor71]

See, that's what I don't get. She wasn't far from her apartment. ( The big question) Why would she get in that car? Was she forced? He must have bullied her.. but I can't see her getting in that car. LE has the car but have not released the results of her being in it. (fiber/hair samples- DNA)

He might have pulled out his taxi badge.. but she wasn't that far from her apartment.

Yep, that doesn't make any sense to me either. She walked independently all night then was suddenly so incapacitated she got into a car? A friend at previous party offered to walk her home, and someone at McGrady's offered help. Then she went with JM? Unless maybe she did not want him to know where she lived, so she was going to have him drop her nearby and walk a block or two home?

 

[jamicat]

Sorry if this has been discussed already. I've been off the board for a few hours.
Can they collect evidence of rape from a skeletonized body? It seems absurd to even ask, but I'm hoping it is possible...

I don't know, but statements from MH's mother seems to so indicate. We really doon't know how much of the evidence that LE has gotten from JM's car, apartment, from Hannah will withstand court scrutiny. Or MH's. There have been some MSM articles that have lawyers musing that the Fairfax case could have the strongest evidence. But at this point we, MSM, outside attorneys have no idea what LE has in evidence. The Fairfax case is muc more evident as a standard rape kit, rape procedures were likely followed. Perhaps something on Hannah's pants?

 

[Emaa]

My ex husband lives in Charlottesville. He told me he played poker at a friend's house with JM 4 days after Hannah went missing. My ex says nothing was strange about JM's demeanor, he acted completely normal and nothing seemed out of the ordinary.. although this was my ex's first time meeting him. SO scary and insane that someone could (allegedly) rape and murder a person and continue on living his life as if nothing happened. :/

I hope your ex called police about this.

 

[Hooville Native]

There was a game in town yesterday so this is normal practice on gameday.

Not sure if this is the correct thread for this: Today I was heading to Richmond on I-64 and my "low fuel" light came on in the car. The very next exit, which I took, was the one that you would take to go to the Downtown Mall in Charlottesville. At the end of the exit ramp, there was a tall "spotlight" and two stationary VSP cars with lights flashing, blocking off portions of the road. If Jesse Matthews drove HG from the Downtown Mall to Route 29 (which is how you would travel to Old Lynchburg Road), this is the exit/entrance area that he would have taken. I was wondering if perhaps they were looking for something that HG may have thrown out of the car (or maybe she tried to escape and something fell out of the car?), as JM would have had to slow down a bit on the entrance ramp. Pure speculation on my part.

 

[Piaget]

I was looking at this time line, specifically, the dates in which they first got results back from their search, it first says "lab results" expected on 9/23, the charges are filed. Then on on 9/23 charges of abduction with intent to defile...I understand that perhaps the grounds for abduction, in part comes with the "last person to be seen with her", but I would think for abduction they would need some proof of "against her will". Later when they announce the MH connection they say "forensic link". I guess I'm dissecting police verbage....

So my thought is when they are referring to "forensic link" they are referring to DNA somehow connecting him to the case. And I know we are all thinking his DNA. But that announcement also came 2 days after the cab is seized. So perhaps Morgans DNA is in that cab, and that is the "forensic link" and perhaps his DNA is on her pantera t-shirt, which matches perfectly the DNA in the Fairfax case. So while they can prove he was likely in contact with her, they do not have enough evidence to prove he abducted, or murdered her...which is why we have yet to see official charges.

I think we were all thinking the MH link was to his apartment...but perhaps it was the cab.

Which bring me back to the wording on the charges in HG, they do not say "forensic link" they say based on "lab reports" which makes me think they do do, or at least did not, at that point have or use DNA evidence to file those charges. So what other evidence could it be....the eye witnesses and cameras we know....but perhaps lab results that reveal drugs in his possession? Something of hers? Having more video of them actually getting in the car? Perhaps evidence that shows how incapacitated she was...?
I don't know?

Any thoughts? Perhaps from those more familiar with exactly what "lab results" would help in filing "abduction" and "defile" charges? Defile just sounds like you'd have to have pretty specific evidence.

Sorry to sound like a broken record, but we don't know what they found in his car-- a beer bottle with their prints/DNA and a trace of date rape drug would tie together many of these loose ends

 

[Emaa]

bbm
http://wvtf.org/post/matthews-defender-ready-his-closeup

Betting police wanted him to see the reports.

 

[jamicat]

Yep, that doesn't make any sense to me either. She walked independently all night then was suddenly so incapacitated she got into a car? A friend at previous party offered to walk her home, and someone at McGrady's offered help. Then she went with JM? Unless maybe she did not want him to know where she lived, so she was going to have him drop her nearby and walk a block or two home?

BBM/ I didn't find that part surprising at all. I think Hannah had agreed to get into JM's car even before being so incapacitated. I think she was frustrated, tired, confused and discouraged at having walked/run to find herself the opposite side of where she wanted to be and have to head back the other way. She'd had too much to drink, it was late, and she was a good mile and a half or more from where she intended to be. A nice guy offering a ride, and a cold beer before getting the ride might have seemed god sent to her. It wasn't that far, it wasn't as though she met him in some dive or dark alley. It was right in the open, so why not? I don't think it entered her head that he could be a rapist, murderer. I think she was happy to get into his car, and get back in a matter of minutes to where she wanted to be.

I also suspect that drink was spiked with something that started working very fast, thus that change in her condition. I don't think JM had any trouble getting her to his car, and she likely passed out or close to it once she got in there. No one saw any signs of Hannah being coerced. Though people do not like to get involved in spats, if they had seen Hannah struggling to get away, or crying out for help or looking like she was being forced to go with JM, I think someone would have intervened, called the authorities. Unfortunately an inebriated, having trouble standing girl (or guy) around last call is typical. She looked like she had someone who was helping her, she was compliant, so it didn't occur to anyone to raise an alarm.

It's highly likely that she gave him that corner address in her last text as she might just wanted to be dropped off there. Maybe she had plans to head on to another UVA gathering, maybe go home. It would make sense that she would just want to be dropped off in the area.

She was tired after all of that walking, and her drinking early had caught up with her. Absolutely, a ride back would have been so welcome.

 

[mika_cat]

No, we surely don't know that. The way all this has played out, we don't know exactly when either Morgan or Hannah died, since there was such a delay between the time they disappeared and the time they were found, and with the condition their remains were in when they were found.

JM took off for Texas sometime after the afternoon of Sept 20 but before the afternoon of Sept 22, which I believe is when he called a family member from Louisiana.

He could have killed Hannah anytime between Sept 13 and Sept 21, imo. With skeletonized remains, can the ME tell exactly when death occurred?

To tell you the truth, I have been concerned about the time that elapsed between when Hannah disappeared and when the witness saw the buzzards on Sept 30. It seems too long for Hannah to have died on Sept 13 and the buzzards finally show up on Sept 30.

Don't know if there's any way to reconstruct the times in reverse, going backward in time from the Sept 30 date when we know the buzzards were VERY active. Sept 20/21 timeframe makes more sense to me as a time of death, but that's just a hunch on my part.

From the beginning, though, I've had it in my head that JM moved her on that weekend, the weekend of Sept 20/21.

ETA: You are right about the coyotes, I believe.

I believe he killed her the night she went missing. Moving a 7 day old corpse would be.. messy, to say the least.

 

[mika_cat]

I hope your ex called police about this.

Absolutely. He called twice, in fact.

 

[ThinkHard]

Sorry to sound like a broken record, but we don't know what they found in his car-- a beer bottle with their prints/DNA and a trace of date rape drug would tie together many of these loose ends

Of course we don't know, didn't you notice all the question marks. I was speculating and proposing questions.

 

[Piaget]

Of course we don't know, didn't you notice all the question marks. I was speculating and proposing questions.

Yes, you asked if anyone had any thoughts as to how the intent to defile could be proved-- those were mine. I wasn't intending to challenge you in any way.

 

[Dee10]

Nails are one possibility, clothes... sometimes a perp. revisits a scene & perhaps that happened??? Morgan was in the elements for a number of months.

 

[SweetT]

My ex husband lives in Charlottesville. He told me he played poker at a friend's house with JM 4 days after Hannah went missing. My ex says nothing was strange about JM's demeanor, he acted completely normal and nothing seemed out of the ordinary.. although this was my ex's first time meeting him. SO scary and insane that someone could (allegedly) rape and murder a person and continue on living his life as if nothing happened. :/

Did he have scratch marks or any noticeable injuries?

 

[jbowman55]

I believe he killed her the night she went missing. Moving a 7 day old corpse would be.. messy, to say the least.

Yes, I'm sure it would be. What I had in mind was that perhaps he held her captive for a few days before killing and disposing of her.

If he did hold her captive somewhere, I'm sure LE would be interested in collecting evidence from such a place.

The conversation has sounded like it is really impossible to predict when carrion birds will show up; it just depends on when they discover the body. I do believe I read this, though, and please don't continue reading if you're particularly squeamish...I believe once putrefaction is widespread on a body, the buzzards are no longer interested. I will see if I can find a source for that. We probably CAN make a decent estimate of when that would have occurred.

ETA: Well, that doesn't help us either. Turkey buzzards shy away from bodies in later stages of decomp, but apparently black buzzards do not. The black buzzards have a much less developed sense of smell. The person who called in the Sept 30 tip about buzzards sounded certain that the buzzards he saw were the black variety.

http://wwx.inhs.illinois.edu/outreach/spotlight/black-vulture/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey_vulture

 

[themom]

I don't know, but statements from MH's mother seems to so indicate. We really doon't know how much of the evidence that LE has gotten from JM's car, apartment, from Hannah will withstand court scrutiny. Or MH's. There have been some MSM articles that have lawyers musing that the Fairfax case could have the strongest evidence. But at this point we, MSM, outside attorneys have no idea what LE has in evidence. The Fairfax case is muc more evident as a standard rape kit, rape procedures were likely followed. Perhaps something on Hannah's pants?

I'm hopeful for the pants carrying DNA. I want JM to be NAILED.
I seem to recall that about MH, too.
I wish we knew the evidence...
Does anyone know if they had found sperm DNA on something in his car, would that be the "intent to defile" charge? JM is a despicable excuse for a human and deserves nothing less than death himself.

 

[ThinkHard]

Nails are one possibility, clothes... sometimes a perp. revisits a scene & perhaps that happened??? Morgan was in the elements for a number of months.

I guess I was trying to understand the difference in wording....btw why police would use terminology "forensic link" and when they would use "lab results"....and what differences the terminology might mean in terms of the type of evidence they found.

I was also suggesting that perhaps it was JLM apt and car search whose "lab results" yielded the HG warrant. Where as based on the timeline it was his cab seizure that yielded the MH "forensic link".