ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 5

[ElishiaMarie]

The more that comes out on this I think the more the stranger/stalker case becomes feasible.

I’d question at this stage being the fact all of these individuals digital footprints will have been heavily scrutinised that there is any sign of ongoing conflict, animosity etc… some kind of back story that might at least mean the police have a Lead or POI of that explanation.

Likewise I don’t believe it was a spur of the moment crime of passion. If it had been a kitchen knife yes, you could see how an argument could escalate there but a combat knife is someone who turned up already equipped to kill.

I don’t believe it’s a crime of opportunity as it doesn’t tick any boxes. The two individuals we know about who could have committed one have been ruled out and the combat knife, multiple victims, hatred it was carried out with don’t suggest it. Plus no apparent sign of a sexual assault motive.

So to me there are two potentials. Something happened between 1.45 and 2.30. Aaltercation in the house with someone they knew. They have left, equipped and come back and committed the crime after 3 AM. I think the girls were almost certainly together until then as the call logs (if accurate) suggest they were calling almost to the minute from each other’s phones.

But I’m not convinced. Would a major argument/fight not have bought up the other housemates. Depending how bad it was would they not have called the police (if threats were issued), would they have not have had adrenaline going and not been potentially asleep around 3, how did the person get back in the house (surely after that all doors would be locked), and ultimately would one single argument be enough to lead someone to leave, arm with a combat knife, and come back and cause thr level of carnage. If they had been harbouring a deep level of hatred would there not be evidence of that through digital footprints.

The only alternative to that is, to me stranger/stalker, where nothing was untoward when they went to bed but something happened between 3/6 (which is the time the police are now giving) when they were killed in their beds.

The fact the police haven’t mentioned 1.45-3 as a time of interest for CcTv etc also makes me think they don’t believe a fight in the house during that time and someone coming back armed after to kill is a potential.

And again I can’t get the thought someone they knew would just turn up with a weapon intent to kill unless the police would see the signs of animosity and conflict through a digital footprint

 

[Sheila Terranova]

Thought...MOO, What if the roommates did go up at 6am and saw E on the floor, but it was dark and they believe a party had happened the night before, so they assumed her was passed out and went back down the their room and it wasn't until noon when the friend showed up that they realized "omg, he hasn't moved and there is blood." I don't think the mind goes directly to murder, it tries to make the most plausible scenario in the situation with the information given, even if it seems silly later. Years ago, I had an encounter with a badly burned electrician who, obviously burned, walked up and asked if I "could get him some help." Despite him clearly being burned, in my mind, I thought he needed me to call another electrician to come assist him with his work. I have thought back on that many times and why my mind didn't see and understand him being injured right away.

That’s a brilliant point. Same thing happened to me, I got knocked down and thanked my assailant because I thought I fell and he was helping me up. Also I don’t remember screaming during multiple attacks except once. I agree with detective furman, One is too busy trying to escape alive usually. That could explain how the murderer managed to get in and out without a tremendous amount of noise. And the general confusion in the morning Until the blood was seen.

 

[Sandra Ade]

It's been a week. Like a lot of us I have gone down multiple google rabbit holes researching this case. And a theme keeps coming up. I can't recall a case where there are so many people close to the crime talking so freely to the media. The mother of a boyfriend, the victims families, sister, parents, LE, the mayor, the coroner, all on TV/print, sometimes seemingly contradicting one another. It is very worrisome for those who want justice. Loose lips sink ships, etc.

Unfortunately, I think this dreadful crime is going to become a case study why LE, in particular, need to work in strict concert with another and have one PIO issue statements.

And I say this with all the respect, that loved ones of the victims should also take exquisite care of the information they share. They are so vulnerable at this time, not always making the best decisions in the pursuit of justice.

It's troubling the amount of information floating out there for public consumption while a suspect(s) still remains at large. And I absolutely see the irony of saying this while sleuthing. Honestly, I wish I knew less at this point. MOO/IMO.

Well said! I am sure LE has shared more with the families in a confidential manner than they have to media. Loose lips sink ships.

 

[CSIDreamer]

But that doesn't give the whole story. We know all that about Kaylee because her family has been very open. What about the others whose family hasn't told us as much. For example, I don't think we've heard anything from Maddie's family. What if she also had a recent breakup or what if she had a stalker or what if she was on the outs with her family? I've wondered about Maddie's family, honestly. They're the only ones I haven't seen anything from (if someone else has, please let me know). They may be just private people and they may be unwilling to divulge if Maddie had similar circumstances to Kaylee, which I understand and have to respect.

What if Ethan was part of a hazing incident and someone wanted revenge? What if there was a work-related dispute with Maddie and Xana at Mad Greek that we don't know about? What if someone was fired and that person blamed the girls for their firing? No evidence to support that, just my hypothetical to make the point that just because we haven't heard certain things doesn't mean they don't exist.

Bottom line, just because we know all the stuff we do about Kaylee doesn't mean similar circumstances don't apply to the others. It just means we haven't heard about it. I think it's still too early to determine the target.

MOO.

Complete agreement. For all we know Ethan was the target and someone was waiting a certain amount of time after all the lights were off or something. JMO

 

[Arkay]

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Number-and-Percentage-of-Homicides-Related-to-Sexual-Violence-by-Victim-Sex-Victim-Type_tbl1_254097424

direct link to research showing HOW VERY RARE IT IS FOR THIS MURDER OF YOUNG COLLEGE WOMEN NOT TO INVOLVE SEXUAL ASSAULT.
They were more than ten times more likely to have been sexually assaulted and murdered than simply murdered.
I’m honestly shocked that there was no attempt with these three beautiful women and a middle of the night intruder.
It makes this crime much more strange/odd to me- horrific as it is.
We know there are rapists and sexual deviants who eventually murder- loads of cases on here. Men who are rapists who are known to murder a victim.
I’m sure the loved ones of these lovely young people are relieved there was no sexual assault and I am relieved they didn’t endure that horrid violation as well.
In any case, I can’t wrap my brain around the motive for the murders.
It is a dangerous psychopath who is loose, not a rapist who murdered.
all IMHO of course

Thankful of course for this mercy that they didn't have to endure rape as well.

However, on the Today show on NBC, several days ago, an expert on criminal behavioral was explaining piquerism, which has also been mentioned on the threads here at least twice.

Apparently there are some sexual deviants who are sexually aroused and satiated by the act of stabbing. The thrusting and penetration involved in a brutal stabbing replaces, for them, the sexual act. Maybe the guy was impotent, maybe the guy was an incel, maybe the guy had plenty of sexual experience and "needed" to go beyond. So, while no sexual assault, it could still be sexually motivated.

I am not at all saying that this is definitively the motive, as I have no idea. Just trying to correlate with your statistics above.

 

[Jazz]

there is 3 Js:

from Idaho Student Madison Mogen’s Boyfriend’s Mom Speaks Out

 

[ginnylover]

Did they spectify it was surviving roommates phone? "Roommates" is vague. It could have been a phone of anyone who lived there.

How would that even work? I'm seriously trying to put together how an outside person would make a 911 call from one of the surviving roommate's phones 8 hours after the murders happened when the two surviving roommates were in locked bedrooms. There wasn't anyone else in the house that night.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Who leaves a voicemail in a moment of panic and desperation? moo

Most people, in a moment of panic and desperation, call 911. Not the same number (from 2 phones) for 30 minutes. JMO

 

[Tealgrove]

Looks like PD is investigating Jack. Kaylee had recently broken up with him, and they also shared custody of the dog.

Parents of Idaho university murder victim vow ex-boyfriend's innocence in case: 'We stand behind Jack 1000%'

The parents of slain Idaho college student, Kaylee Goncalves, spoke out on 'Lawrence Jones Cross Country,' maintaining their daughter's ex-boyfriend's innocence in the case.

www.foxnews.com

If they didn’t they’d be flamed for sure. He’s probably one of the first people to be investigated IMO.

 

[nao]

Moo...some people are just drunk dialers..i will not answer..call me in the morning. If it is of any importance they will leave a text..but honestly most repetitive 2-3am calls are just drunk dialing expecially if they have their friend calling..they are just playing games. Maybe if he shut his phone ringer off..this was her habit?..moo

 

[mysteryfan96]

You look at what’s different, what recently happened that could have triggered this event?

And in that regard, from what we know at least, it all points to Kaylee as the main target. She recently had a very significant breakup. She got a new job and was moving on to a new life. She had gone home, returned for the weekend, and was not going to be there long. She showed up with an expensive, new (to her) vehicle that she wanted to show to everyone.

Note: in no way, shape or form am I casting “blame” or anything. I just think it’s important to note these facts

I have posited this theory many times already as well, and I think you are spot-on. Of course any of the other victims could have also had recent life events or interactions which would point to them as the target. But we as outsiders aren’t privy to those, and we can only go on what we’ve been told by MSM and family members of the victims.

And everything I’ve read absolutely points towards Kaylee as the target. She had a recent break-up. She was moving across the country very soon and had already started that process. She would be leaving soon and was actually only at the house that night to show off her new car and hang out with her best friend. She slept on the third floor and was a much more out-of-the-way victim for the killer, indicating he made additional effort to get to her (and Madison). She was one of two on video at the food truck, seemingly being eyed by certain people. She was the main one who made multiple calls to her ex shortly before she was murdered. It’s also rumored she had a stalker (not totally sold on that, but it’s out there). She was also the only one of the four murdered who was single. The other three were in very happy relationships.

Again, there could be phone calls or videos or facts or circumstances around the other three victims which would point towards any or all of them as intended targets that we are just unaware of at this point. If those are made public, then I might change my theory. But based solely on what we’ve been told and the facts as they stand right now, I think Kaylee stands out heads above the rest as the intended target.

Unfortunately, I’m not sure that identifying Kaylee as the intended target brings us as a websleuth community any closer to identifying the killer. It might do so for police, as they obviously know way more than we do. There are individuals in the case who I think make pretty solid suspects on the surface, given what we know. But police are saying they’ve either been cleared or aren’t suspects, so at this time that moves them either to the back burner or off the radar altogether. My best guess is still someone Kaylee knew who, for one reason or another, developed very deep feelings of love/attraction (at first) which were then turned to feelings of hate/anger/rage.

And I think it’s possible that this killer went to that house that night intending to commit just the one murder, maybe even in his mind with a simple stab or two, with a quick escape. And then based on where people were sleeping, who woke up, the murder being more difficult that he imagined, etc., the whole series event spiraled out of control and turned into an adrenaline and rage-filled bloodbath with more victims than originally intended.

 

[Gae]

I think whoever did this was familiar with the area. I feel they were worried about possible cameras across the street and up the street at the apartments. I think the entered and left from the back of the house that faces the wooded tree area. Easier to run and escape in his mind and easier to hide and watch house.

Was the perp worried about a camera inside the house? If not, why not? Did he know there was no security camera on the premises? Did he wear a mask of any kind? To spend that much time in the house - enough time to kill four adults, he didn't seem like he was in that big of a hurry to get out. I would guess there was no camera in the house or otherwise LE would have a clearer idea on suspect(s)?

 

[mickey2942]

I am waiting to see if anyone "lawyers up"

If one of my kids was even close to this mess, our 401k would take a hit for a stash of money. Better to have an attorney, and make sure that he is properly represented. This is way too big to just say, "I don't know, I was home asleep". That would be the end of the questions.

An attorney is not a sign of guilt. Too many people get twisted up in police questioning.

 

[late1]

I agree. I think this person was familiar with how to properly disable and kill with a knife. moo

IMO the opposite is true.

Can we separate the manner of knife use from the result? These are 2 different things. Yes, the result looks horrifically effective. But the manner was not like any training or "familiarity" on how to disable and kill with a knife.

IMO, and really sorry for the graphic nature of this:
There are 2 different categories of victims here based on the provided fact that 2 or 3 victims were killed in their beds and 2 or 1 were out of their beds. (Source: Coroner)

1) For those in bed, if all the wounds were to the neck area, plus defensive wounds on hands/arms, that would suggest training. The wounds were not described that way by the coroner.

2) For the 1 or 2 out of their beds, one of either 2 things happened, they were stabbed in their bed and managed to get out of bed before dying (see example 1 above), or they heard noise, got up, had a confrontation. Confrontational wounds would be more complex.

Bottom line, IMO, the facts as they have been provided thus far don't support knowledge or training with a knife.

 

[Breezie]

Idaho police provide updates in press conference one week after brutal university murders

Police in Moscow, Idaho, held a press conference on Sunday afternoon to provide an update on the quadruple fatal stabbing of University of Idaho students.

www.foxnews.com

Moscow, Idaho, police will hold a press conference Sunday at 3 p.m. PST, one week after four University of Idaho students were discovered fatally stabbed in a house near campus.

 

[Gae]

I don’t know about y’all, but most young people I know have location services enabled between their friends. In addition to Snapchat and other socmedia like the livestream by the food truck, they can see where most of their social circle is at any time. Like if someone is nearby the bar you are at, you’ll message or call them and stop in.

My point is, if anyone is calling someone to come by, they might know that the person is in town, at least?

Yes, my grandson and his girlfriend and friends are in that same bracket and do just that. They know where their friends are from various apps.

 

[Breezie]

The killer "made a mess. And there's a mess there. And they're gonna have to go through that point by point and that's going to take a lot of time. That's why they reached out to other facilities to help them with that lab work," Kaylee’s dad, Steve Goncalves told Fox News’ Lawrence Jones.

Idaho university murder victim's mom reveals last messages she sent just hours before killing

Kristi Goncalves, mother of slain Idaho student Kaylee Goncalves, reveals she talked to her daughter and received photos from her just hours before killing on Nov. 13, 2022.

www.foxnews.com

 

[wary]

I do think it's unusual that no one moved toward the victim to see if they could help??? Who does that? A young man down on the ground and you do nothing to help?

Well, I feel confident that if someone had, many people would be saying that it was a cold-blooded attempt to provide a reason for DNA to be present, etc.

And actually, what reason do we have for believing that no one tried to help? The ‘unconscious’ word? It’s extremely likely that no one on the scene was in any way qualified to pronounce death.

All MOO

 

[layer]

JMO.

I wanted to emphasize this from the article linked above by @dotr (RBBM):

“Ethan Chapin captured photos of the event on his phone, but the family has yet to see them. The device [phone] is being held by law enforcement as potential evidence in the homicide investigation.''

There are so many questions surrounding the phones, what phone contacts were made when and by/to whom, and why there weren’t any reported emergency calls by the victim that I thought it of interest that LE has at least EC’s phone.



Also wanted to note that the NYT link above by @sds71 clarifies the call was made from the phone of a surviving roommate (does not state identity of caller) (RBBM):

“Investigators said they did not believe either [surviving roommate] was involved in the crime and suggested that they had possibly slept as their roommates were being killed. No one called 911 until just before noon on Sunday — many hours after the attack, which the authorities have said took place in the early morning hours. That call came from one of the surviving roommates’ cellphones.”




@Kaykedi I’m not sure which investigators you are referring to and when they entered the house. My understanding is that the initial LE response would have been for an unconscious person, so their priority would have been to reach that person and determine his/her status.

Subsequent photos and video do show investigators with Personal Protective Equipment (PPE), and the area being marked / taped off. The difference may be crime scene/forensic investigators vs first responders.

All JMO.

This, from that link, was news to me:

Detectives believe that on November 12th, the two surviving roommates had been out in the Moscow community, separately, but returned home by 1 a.m. The two did not wake up until later on November 13th.

 

[MesquiteO21]

Did they spectify it was surviving roommates phone? "Roommates" is vague. It could have been a phone of anyone who lived there.

I don’t think they have, and I had the same thought. Saying “roommates phone” could literally be any of the 6