ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #8

[kammiemc]

There's the Silver Dollar Bar and Restaurant, owned by the RSO, and then there is the Stage Stop store (combo gas station / convenience store). A lady store clerk was mentioned in the interview with Nate at East Idaho News. Apparently this store clerk might have seen DeOrr.

Yes, that's the store clerk that DK says she saw a guy in black truck with a boy matching DeOrr's description, right? She said he was filthy and bawling. DK took issue with the fact that she said the sighting (according to him) was at 6 PM, whereas he says the family went to the store together, earlier. As per the PI, that outing to get fries and then go to the store was around noonish if they were able to get back to the campground in time to settle in, go exploring, search for DeOrr and call 911 by 2:38 PM. (It also appears that the Stage Shop is a gas station and store. I think I remember hearing something about a gas station sighting as well. But that might be the same as the store sighting since they are one and the same.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

IMO, the staring old man is a red herring. If you want to talk about eerie, how about that DeOrr was being served fries at an establishment owned by one of two RSO's in the area just two hours before he disappeared. Or, how about the guy who came along on their camping trip? Yikes.

I think the mom is grasping at straws because the PI is pressing her to remember anything, anyone, no matter how seemingly irrelevant, that could point at some kind of possibility of abduction and take the suspicion away from those at the campsite.

Anyway, was the old man even staring? If so, was it because DeOrr is a cute, beautiful boy who might bring joy to people? Or would it be because the boy was filthy?

(NOTE: Though DK says the store clerk who said the boy with the man in a black truck was filthy had the wrong time, DK admits the family went to the store, and PI says they stopped at the store after the cafe.)

Hopefully the old staring man remembers seeing the family, or someone at the cafe (even the RSO) remembers seeing the family, because, as suspicions grow, it would be beneficial to the parents that someone unrelated to their camping trip could vouch for when and if the toddler was seen in town that day.

The staring man would be crazy to come forward. He will be known as a "child abductor" in the media. His life will be over. He will be a scapegoat. Stay away, stay away.

If the family wanted to use him as a witness, maybe they shouldn't have said that he made them uncomfortable. Staring man, if you are reading this, DO NOT come forward to anyone. You will be thrown under the bus, and your life wil be ruined.

 

[babyback]

I take it that the Stage Stop had no surveillance cams? It's probably ridiculous to think that they would need them in such a small town, but still.

 

[Hoosier952]

Side scanning/side imaging fish finders are pretty amazing compared to down scan. I've only used them fishing, not finding people, but I'm certain it's the same idea. If you do a quick google image search, you can see the details they can pick up.

Also, someone asked about game cams and how they work or if pictures could be retrieved remotely.There are all different types of game cams. Some work off of cellular SIM cards, just like a mobile phone. Of course, you still would have to have cell service for them to work properly. You can use signal boosters, but I can't imagine someone wrapping up that much money in a trail cam to leave on public property.

They also have trail cams that you can retrieve pictures from a distance. Usually you have to be within 150 ft or so. Once again, pretty expensive to leave on public property. We hunt private property (our own and a friend's) and we lock them in a steel box bolted directly to the tree. Trail cam theft is rampant here.

I do have several friends that hunt public ground and most opt not to use trail cams. Even a cheap one is $20-30. I don't know very many people who'd leave a $20 bill strapped to a tree in a public area.

I can't remember if whoever was asking, asked how they worked, so I'll answer that too just to be thorough. There are two types. Motion+heat sensor or time-lapse, some have settings to make it both. Some are infrared and others are flash. Most have multiple settings so you can decide how often it will take pictures, even in motion/heat sensor mode. If this is unnecessary info, mods please delete.

 

[kammiemc]

Well she's the one who gave the tip about the Friday evening siting am I correct? So, we could assume, (which I don't like to do) that she had to have had to lay eyes on DeOrr, or she wouldn't have known what the child looked like to be able to spot another child matching the discription? Or was she shown a photo of DeOrr and asked if she had seen him? I hope I explained that well enough, I may not have.

The parents said that the clerk said she saw a child that matched THEIR description of the child. I'm assuming that LE asked around in Leodore if anyone had seen a toddler with blond hair. It would "seem" that she got the time wrong if she did see the boy, at least according to DeOrr Sr.

ETA: Sorry if I wasn't clear, I meant that the clerk would not necessarily have had to actually see the boy in person first in order to remember seeing him again. (It could've just been based on his description.) It seems if she remembered seeing him earlier she would have said she saw him twice.

 

[ILOKAL]

Here's what I have trouble understanding. They are eating at the only restaurant in the tiny little town, where everyone knows everyone else - so why didn't someone come forward with the information about seeing the family, WITH Deorr, at the beginning of the search? Or was the confusion because it wasn't the store clerk who saw him. Perhaps it was the RSO who works at the restaurant. If so, why did she only mention a man and a filthy, bawling toddler instead of saying the family was there eating fries, etc.

If that happened, maybe only Deorr and his dad went inside.

 

[babyback]

Well I didn't know THIS :thinking:

CASAREZ: Randy Kessler, defense attorney joining us out of Atlanta -- they have to keep every option open. And they say and reiterate that the family

is cooperating. We do know that the friend of the grandpa, the mother and father, had never met before. That can happen, right?
http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1507/16/ng.01.html

 

[travelbug]

Here is the basic problem; Until LE or the FBI releases more information or names a suspect(s) we are out of new theories that can be discussed. Everything eventually takes us down a path that violates the terms of service. LE is not acknowledging the PI, so we can't really sleuth him or his theories. We can't discuss either family. We can't discuss the family friend. We can't discuss the RSO's. We have discussed the wild animal and drowning theories until we are blue in the face. The things that are most relevant to the case, like a valid and verified timeline and the location of everyone who was in contact with DK Jr., only lead to frustration because they all circle back to a place we cannot go. There was hope that the PI would provide some new and useful information, but he seems to be filled with hypotheses and not facts. When he has presented facts, which are not acknowledged as valid by LE, they sometimes contradict the information we have already been given through LE or MSM. This is one of the most frustrating missing child cases I've encountered. Generally, where children are concerned, there is much more parental, media and LE involvement. It's as though everyone connected to this case just wants it to go away with no further questions asked. :moo: :gaah: :banghead: :maddening:

 

[ILOKAL]

I'm thinking it's the same, Stone Creek Reservoir.
http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/local/idaho/2015/07/15/missing-boy-deorr-search-dogs/30209081/

The name of the creek running from Stone Reservoir is Timber Creek.

 

[kammiemc]

Here is the basic problem; Until LE or the FBI releases more information or names a suspect(s) we are out of new theories that can be discussed. Everything eventually takes us down a path that violates the terms of service. LE is not acknowledging the PI, so we can't really sleuth him or his theories. We can't discuss either family. We can't discuss the family friend. We can't discuss the RSO's. We have discussed the wild animal and drowning theories until we are blue in the face. The things that are most relevant to the case, like a valid and verified timeline and the location of everyone who was in contact with DK Jr., only lead to frustration because they all circle back to a place we cannot go. There was hope that the PI would provide some new and useful information, but he seems to be filled with hypotheses and not facts. When he has presented facts, which are not acknowledged as valid by LE, they sometimes contradict the information we have already been given through LE or MSM. This is one of the most frustrating missing child cases I've encountered. Generally, where children are concerned, there is much more parental, media and LE involvement. It's as though everyone connected to this case just wants it to go away with no further questions asked. :moo: :gaah: :banghead: :maddening:

I agree. There's not even a basic timeline established. The PI could uncover 100 staring incidents and it won't make a difference. Very frustrating.

 

[travelbug]

If that happened, maybe only Deorr and his dad went inside.

That would contradict the statement, made by the mother, that an old man staring at DK Jr. made her nervous

 

[starfire]

I understood that the Silver Dollar Cafe was the only game in town and that the RSO was owner. Is that false? Is there another place to eat fries? Is the RSO not the owner of the Silver Dollar Cafe?

For clarity, I don't/didn't claim to know who served them, nor did I say they made contact with the RSO. My point is, if the PI is looking for eerie things/coincidences in this case, a staring old man would be way down the list. Just the fact that the RSO (presumed owner of what appears to be the local food destination, presumably where the family stopped) was on MSM in the kitchen talking about the how a child abductor wouldn't make a trip up the road is eerier--to me

ETA: BTW, have you checked out the street view of the the Silver Dollar Cafe and took a little tour through town? There is not much going on. Just a few buildings. I think it is VERY likely this is the place where people go to eat cooked food.
Link: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Silver+Dollar+Bar+%26+Restaurant/@44.6804401,-113.3576642,3a,75y,35h,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s9RmaeXGjCA6uuvj_aGlWkQ!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26output%3Dthumbnail%26thumb%3D2%26panoid%3D9RmaeXGjCA6uuvj_aGlWkQ%26w%3D374%26h%3D75%26yaw%3D35%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D120%26ll%3D44.680440,-113.357664!7i3328!8i1664!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x4b9926b526ebab69!6m1!1e1

Also, someone might stare at them because they might literally be the only people in town besides those who work there!! There is not a soul to be seen on the streetview tour.

It's just speculation that the family may have gone into the Silver Dollar. The RSO owns the Silver Dollar and never mentioned the family eating at her establishment in her interview. The Stage Shop has a deli area and may sell fries, too.

 

[1&2&3]

I have put in many hours searching for the rumor DeOrrs dad mentioned in the video of the black truck at the store with a filth DeOrr buying candy.. I have concerns about this..

I can not find any site, blog or post regarding anything about this siting - Has this siting been confirmed by LE? If not, WHO started this rumor, WHERE was it posted or brought up in social media PRIOR to dad mentioning it?

I can never find things so I truly understand what you have been through. I definitely remember this occurrence and it has been discussed on here repeatedly. I will say LE is aware of it as they are the ones who said the clerk did not want to be interviewed, IIRC. Also, I recall how when LE was telling about it, Deorr Sr. quickly claimed that yes they (the family) were there but it was at 12:00 not 6:00 as LE was reporting what the clerk said.

 

[ILOKAL]

That would contradict the statement, made by the mother, that an old man staring at DK Jr. made her nervous

Did she say this occurred inside or was this guy outside? I can't remember.

 

[gliving]

Surprisingly both stores in Leadore serve potato fries! Although the first link is from 2012

(Stage Stop)
"Arriving in Leadore, which we originally thought was pronounced Leah-dore, we drove around looking for a picnic spot with a bathroom facility (as opposed to an outhouse). The town has seen better days, but remains alive with a few, friendly souls all of whom seemed to be congregated at the store / cafe called Stage Stop. They sold gas, saddles, organic oats, jo-jos (still not sure what those are), drinks, and provided paying customers with a clean, modern bathroom."
https://travelbytheseatofmypants.wordpress.com/2012/07/12/day-6-idaho-falls-id-to-missoula-mt/

(Silver Dollar Cafe)
This Cafe shares kitchen with a bar but the eating area is completely separate. Very neat and clean. Wildlife decor. Food is very well cooked and hamburgers and fries are very good. Very reasonable rates. On a lonely road this was a welcome stop!
http://www.yelp.com/biz/silver-dollar-cafe-leadore

 

[travelbug]

I can never find things so I truly understand what you have been through. I definitely remember this occurrence and it has been discussed on here repeatedly. I will say LE is aware of it as they are the ones who said the clerk did not want to be interviewed, IIRC. Also, I recall how when LE was telling about it, Deorr Sr. quickly claimed that yes they (the family) were there but it was at 12:00 not 6:00 as LE was reporting what the clerk said.

Wendy 101 - Here is the unedited video where the black truck is discussed: http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/uncut-entire-interview-with-parents-of-deorr-kunz/

 

[cobalt sky]

Here is the basic problem; Until LE or the FBI releases more information or names a suspect(s) we are out of new theories that can be discussed. Everything eventually takes us down a path that violates the terms of service. LE is not acknowledging the PI, so we can't really sleuth him or his theories. We can't discuss either family. We can't discuss the family friend. We can't discuss the RSO's. We have discussed the wild animal and drowning theories until we are blue in the face. The things that are most relevant to the case, like a valid and verified timeline and the location of everyone who was in contact with DK Jr., only lead to frustration because they all circle back to a place we cannot go. There was hope that the PI would provide some new and useful information, but he seems to be filled with hypotheses and not facts. When he has presented facts, which are not acknowledged as valid by LE, they sometimes contradict the information we have already been given through LE or MSM. This is one of the most frustrating missing child cases I've encountered. Generally, where children are concerned, there is much more parental, media and LE involvement. It's as though everyone connected to this case just wants it to go away with no further questions asked. :moo: :gaah: :banghead: :maddening:

Most excellent post, a "thank you" wasn't enough! BBM ~ it sure does, doesn't it

 

[wondering25]

I can never find things so I truly understand what you have been through. I definitely remember this occurrence and it has been discussed on here repeatedly. I will say LE is aware of it as they are the ones who said the clerk did not want to be interviewed, IIRC. Also, I recall how when LE was telling about it, Deorr Sr. quickly claimed that yes they (the family) were there but it was at 12:00 not 6:00 as LE was reporting what the clerk said.

I am sorry to say this but that whole exchange in the interview when dad says here is the problem about the black truck and mom says "he drives a black truck" was moronic. Millions of black trucks.. if that is a problem then there is a problem! They didnt refute the fact that their child couldnt be filthy and bawling ... why the worry about a random black truck? JMO

 

[ILOKAL]

Surprisingly both stores in Leadore serve potato fries! Although the first link is from 2012

(Stage Stop)
"Arriving in Leadore, which we originally thought was pronounced Leah-dore, we drove around looking for a picnic spot with a bathroom facility (as opposed to an outhouse). The town has seen better days, but remains alive with a few, friendly souls all of whom seemed to be congregated at the store / cafe called Stage Stop. They sold gas, saddles, organic oats, jo-jos (still not sure what those are), drinks, and provided paying customers with a clean, modern bathroom."
https://travelbytheseatofmypants.wordpress.com/2012/07/12/day-6-idaho-falls-id-to-missoula-mt/

(Silver Dollar Cafe)
This Cafe shares kitchen with a bar but the eating area is completely separate. Very neat and clean. Wildlife decor. Food is very well cooked and hamburgers and fries are very good. Very reasonable rates. On a lonely road this was a welcome stop!
http://www.yelp.com/biz/silver-dollar-cafe-leadore

Where does that say the Stage Stop sells French fries? I couldn't find it.

 

[travelbug]

Did she say this occurred inside or was this guy outside? I can't remember.

She did not specify. Here is the quote and the link to the full PI interview, where the subject of the RSO's is also brought up:
“When [the family] went into town the morning after they arrived, they picked a few groceries up and bought some French fries for DeOrr Jr.,” Vilt said. “There was a man who was staring at DeOrr and this made Jessica feel kind of eery. I’m looking into it.”

Vilt says he has interviewed people registered on the sex offender list who live in Lemhi County and, according to him, all of them were cleared.
http://q13fox.com/2015/08/11/privat...amily-of-missing-idaho-toddler-deorr-kunz-jr/