Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #44

[dixiegirl1035]

If as Jankee says, he was seeking counseling. That could indicate he was experiencing some sort of guilt, although I'm not clear when that conversation took place (before or after Tylee & JJ's death).

We also don't know how deeply invested he was in the bunk theology. MG told us she went to AxC and asked what happened to JJ. He replied "you don't want to know".

What's your take on his reply?

When I worked in corporate America prior to retirement at a high level, this was a signal that it was outside of rules...both parties pretty much knew yet not answered to give plausible deniability for a resulting action.

MOO

 

[JolietJake]

As @vislaw said a few posts up, we don't know about all the evidence found so far and I believe the FBI wouldn't be camped out in Rexburg, ID this long if they were running into dead ends. I'm sure they had plenty of evidence when they swooped down on CD's place all at once. The amount of people like LE, forensics, anthropologists, machine operators, photographers, etc that gathered that day in 30 or so vehicles if I recall, plus equipment, had to be organized well ahead of time.

I'm guessing TD's results are in since AC's results had been done and publicized weeks ago. If TD's death was deemed natural causes, I think we would have heard by now so I'm guessing that evidence is being held.

Sometimes we think of this as one massive case but they may have to be broken down into several cases that are obviously related but different in certain ways. If that's true, with the complexity of these cases, it has to be done to convince a jury, or perhaps even juries with an "s".

At this point there is no hurry to do anything but regardless whether AC was around or not, LV and CD are toast.

 

[GoneGoldfishin']

I personally haven’t had a conversation like this and neither has my husband. I believe some people do though.

Well I didn't say it was common (frequent), just that it was normal, as in it wouldn't be outside of mainstream LDS thought. Moo.
ETA: Also, how could a parent have a conversation like this if it didn't happen to them? I know my mom had this experience, I know why, and it is very upsetting to me.

 

[GoneGoldfishin']

I wish we had a separate link to court docs. I find it a challenge to find the relevant post.

You won't be able to find the docs referenced here, as they are off limits.

 

[newsjunkie]

Lori believed Tylee was a zombie since 12-13 (from what she told MG). If Tylee was a zombie all these years, obviously she hasn't done anything to Lori in her supposed zombie form. So what would Alex think he would be protecting Lori from?

We’ve been told he protects his sister. We’ve been told he believes in the zombie stuff 100%. He was obviously swayed to believe JR was a threat and later Charles was a threat and then acted accordingly.

I wasn’t there the day Lori swayed him to believe her children had become a threat to her.

Supposedly there are levels to the darkness. Once Tylee and later JJ crosses that line, Alex participated in whatever way his sister asked him to following his earlier pattern of protecting her.

Don’t think I’m giving him a pass for any of his actions, but if he believed in it 100% I can see that being his motivation. I don’t see motivation for him in any other scenario. He’s not the mastermind. He’s a lackey. IMO JMO MOO

 

[vislaw]

As @vislaw said a few posts up, we don't know about all the evidence found so far and I believe the FBI wouldn't be camped out in Rexburg, ID this long if they were running into dead ends. I'm sure they had plenty of evidence when they swooped down on CD's place all at once. The amount of people like LE, forensics, anthropologists, machine operators, photographers, etc that gathered that day in 30 or so vehicles if I recall, plus equipment, had to be organized well ahead of time.

I'm guessing TD's results are in since AC's results had been done and publicized weeks ago. If TD's death was deemed natural causes, I think we would have heard by now so I'm guessing that evidence is being held.

Sometimes we think of this as one massive case but they may have to be broken down into several cases that are obviously related but different in certain ways. If that's true, with the complexity of these cases, it has to be done to convince a jury, or perhaps even juries with an "s".

At this point there is no hurry to do anything but regardless whether AC was around or not, LV and CD are toast.

Excellent post.

 

[scapa]

I could barely get through watching that interview because Ashleigh B. is obnoxious... but great info! I wonder how bad the food is? Ugh, probably inedible.

I grew up with her....

I'm not surprised to hear that LVD isn't on suicide watch. And I suspect that her belief in the absolute rightness of her/ their cause remains unshaken. As does the belief that her godly nature will win out and see her exonerated to assume her proper place amongst the chosen. And a cell beats a tent, after all.

Chad, on the other hand -- not beyond the realm of possibility IMO that he receives a new vision suggesting that previous visions were, after all, merely cunning acts of satanic deception. In which case, rolling over in LVD would be both legally prudent and a way of reestablishing his credentials, whether for this world or the next.

 

[SleuthD-o-doubleg]

Well I didn't say it was common (frequent), just that it was normal, as in it wouldn't be outside of mainstream LDS thought. Moo.
ETA: Also, how could a parent have a conversation like this if it didn't happen to them? I know my mom had this experience, I know why, and it is very upsetting to me.

I didn’t mean it as an upsetting comment. I certainly believe people can have these experiences whether LDS or not. I definitely believe your comment about your mom. All Jmo

 

[Nosurprise]

As @vislaw said a few posts up, we don't know about all the evidence found so far and I believe the FBI wouldn't be camped out in Rexburg, ID this long if they were running into dead ends. I'm sure they had plenty of evidence when they swooped down on CD's place all at once. The amount of people like LE, forensics, anthropologists, machine operators, photographers, etc that gathered that day in 30 or so vehicles if I recall, plus equipment, had to be organized well ahead of time.

I'm guessing TD's results are in since AC's results had been done and publicized weeks ago. If TD's death was deemed natural causes, I think we would have heard by now so I'm guessing that evidence is being held.

Sometimes we think of this as one massive case but they may have to be broken down into several cases that are obviously related but different in certain ways. If that's true, with the complexity of these cases, it has to be done to convince a jury, or perhaps even juries with an "s".

At this point there is no hurry to do anything but regardless whether AC was around or not, LV and CD are toast.

Just a question please, what if we did not get all the facts about Alex's death? Could LE still be doing more tests or know something that they aren't telling us to possibly lull some people, not that what I wrote makes sense MOO.

 

[gumchew]

RSBM

<snip>

If you want to try to correlate the possibility of either cumulative (such as with AxC's job hauling toxic chemicals) or excessive dose exposure (intentional poisoning) start with the stated symptoms at the scene and work backwards.

<snip>

Many weed killers and bug killers will be OPPs, so maybe start with one of those and compare to the medical findings.

Organophosphates or cyanide seem promising on cases where we have no autopsy evidence and are working from symptoms, if we know the symptoms. But do we need to work backwards from symptoms for AxC?

With AxC we have a specific cause of death that is not a guess. It's pulmonary thromboembolism. The suspicious circumstances make us question the manner of death. So far I can find only one study that correlates OP poisoning to higher risk of developing DVTs . It didn't show a significantly increased risk of developing PTEs.

So, again, with an already-identified cause of death in which only the manner is in question, acute OP poisoning (short term) as a manner of death seems not to fit the facts we know about cause of death from the ME.

Increased Risk of Deep Vein Thrombosis and Pulmonary Thromboembolism in Patients With Organophosphate Intoxication: A Nationwide Prospective Cohort Study - PubMed

Note: I am not a medical professional, and am relying only on logic, reading comprehension and problem-solving/troubleshooting skills. If I missed a fact or if my reasoning doesn't stand up, I appreciate being corrected or challenged with better information.

 

[RickshawFan]

I'm certain these photos were taken at this location. I've matched many features that confirm this. For instance, see below:

The relationship between the ridge line, creek and wooden railing establish this was, indeed, where the photo was taken.

The side by side matches are very helpful for picturing.
I totally agree it's that set of pots: I wasn't taking issue with that. But I don't know if you could stand in that corner where the guy with the blue baby pack is and come up with a context for the threesome. Where do you stand to get that exact backdrop that the threesome are in? I'm looking at the volume of greenery in the far ground.

I'm thinking the answer is that the Park Service had to re-design the boardwalk because of pot activity and lopped off a section, so the corner is in a different place. I note that the woman with the red-trimmed straw hat is looking down, so there's a pot, like, in front of her feet.

As I say, I'm always astonished when I go to YNP how much it's changed since the last time I was there. New features all the time.

 

[gumchew]

In the Jodi Arias case, the thumbnails were lower quality as she had erased some photos retrieved off the found camera card, and the originals could not be retrieved. MOO And yes, unless it was a TIFF format, formats like jpegs get lower when copied and of course, if sent through text format. So, all three on the table.

Small correction: Image files don't get lower in quality when copied. Just copying a file would preserve all of its bits (and therefore its quality). They are lowered in quality when they are opened and then re-saved, because saving the file causes it to undergo compression again, which will remove detail.

 

[wenwe4]

But is that MNN in the prison?

I hope someone who knows pipes in here... I have wondered at times, about what cable channels are permitted in prisons, and which may not be permitted. I have daydreamed about "what if prisoners watched Fox news all day", or Court Tv, or Dateline. you get the gist....are their restrictions.

Yes MNN is everywhere!
I was in the area earlier this year to provide care for my Mom. She passed away and I told 1 friend that morning who shared with my Mom's neighbor - who promptly got on the local Ward's FB page and announced the passing of my mom. Members in the ward (that my mom did not attend) told neighbors and my extended family members found out on FB before I had opportunity to notify them. I asked the person who posted directly to the Wards FB to take down the post immediately and they did but it was already too late (all within 3 hours).

Local channels are limited - EIN & KIFI (localnews8) are the only ones I know of in IF. Most folks get their cable channels out of SLC or sometimes Denver (I am told).

 

[Ohmeohmy]

Additional testing ordered on remains of JJ Vallow and Tylee Ryan | East Idaho News
“Outside and ancillary testing has been ordered and will take several weeks to return. Once all results are received, the forensic pathologist’s reports will be provided to the Fremont County Coroner,” Ada County Coroner Dotti Owens said in a news release.

 

[gumchew]

What is the purpose of releasing the last known photo after they're determined deceased and saying YNP is no longer of interest? I like the theory presented earlier in that it may have been a way to let whoever know that they have those photos and may have been previously deleted.

This is just speculation but the timing and purpose certainly have me wondering as they could have easily posted a newer photo which is much clearer for the public earlier if they had it.

Honestly it's a better photo of all of them. Out of respect for the kids' memory? Perhaps for a better chance of somebody ID'ing Alex from that day?

But yes, maybe a subtle manipulation of Lori or Chad to let them know "hey, we have those files you thought you deleted". Does LE engage in those tactics? I know they do in elaborate TV dramas, but am not sure if that happens in real life, mainly because cops are not typically subtle and criminals are not typically smart enough to decipher subtext.

ETA: I don't mean to be insulting to cops, re subtlety. I just mean that police tend to be clear and direct about what they're messaging, even if they're engaging in some subterfuge. In the case of the picture, there seems to be no messaging at all.

 

[RickshawFan]

RSBM

Can we please refrain from associating schizophrenia with “crazy”? Schizophrenic people suffer horribly, and are frequently victimized, presented as scary, while they’re in fact vulnerable. It’s a difficult life, from what I understand, and the inclination is frequently bent towards self-harm (to make it stop, among other things). Statements like this are ableist, though I have every confidence you have good intentions...it’s just an important thing to me to bring up as it can be damaging creating this kind of stigma & association in people’s minds.

Mental illness/“craziness” language is frequently our default when talking about people capable of these heinous things, but that perpetuates a false narrative, as we know people who have such illness are more frequently victim than perpetrator.

thank you sincerely for hearing me out.

Thanks for saying this. I also think it's too easy to confuse mental illness (e.g. schizophrenia), even treated mental illness, with propensity for violence. Let's all be super careful.

 

[StarEyes]

I just listened to Nancy Grace’s latest podcast episode on Tylee and JJ. I am so sick. Nate Eaton just said Tylee was dismembered before death. However, Nancy let it ride without asking about that detail, making me wonder if he misspoke. Did anyone listen to it? If so, did you hear that? It starts at the 26 minute mark. Maybe he misspoke? (I’m just praying he did.)
(Ebm because my phone keeps correcting to Tyler when I type Tylee. Sorry.)

Breaking News: Cult Mom Lori Vallow children duct taped, wrapped in plastic, dismembered from Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

 

[Diddian]

I just listened to Nancy Grace’s latest podcast episode on Tylee and JJ. I am so sick. Nate Eaton just said Tylee was dismembered before death. However, Nancy let it ride without asking about that detail, making me wonder if he misspoke. Did anyone listen to it? If so, did you hear that? It starts at the 26 minute mark. Maybe he misspoke? (I’m just praying he did.)
(Ebm because my phone keeps correcting to Tyler when I type Tylee. Sorry.)

Breaking News: Cult Mom Lori Vallow children duct taped, wrapped in plastic, dismembered from Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

Nate Eaton subsequently issued a statement that he misspoke about dismemberment occurring premortem. The timing of dismemberment will be determined, if possible, through forensic pathology.
NateEatonReporter

 

[montegrl]

I just listened to Nancy Grace’s latest podcast episode on Tylee and JJ. I am so sick. Nate Eaton just said Tylee was dismembered before death. However, Nancy let it ride without asking about that detail, making me wonder if he misspoke. Did anyone listen to it? If so, did you hear that? It starts at the 26 minute mark. Maybe he misspoke? (I’m just praying he did.)
(Ebm because my phone keeps correcting to Tyler when I type Tylee. Sorry.)

Breaking News: Cult Mom Lori Vallow children duct taped, wrapped in plastic, dismembered from Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

Yes, Nate Eaton has stated he misspoke after that aired, it is back in the last thread I believe. MOO

 

[indicolite22]

It's pretty diabolical: convince a loving uncle that his beloved niece and nephew had their souls pushed out of their body by evil spirits, and the only way to free their souls is to destroy the body. They are just shells after all, and if it is too disturbing to see their faces as they die, just sedate them, restrain them, and put a plastic bag over their heads until they stop moving.

Add to that that the niece and nephew need to move onto their next mortal lives in which they will be much happier.