Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #44

[SleuthD-o-doubleg]

Lori reminds me of Charles Manson. There is that charismatic bearing that is so similar.

Looks like the noise of her coughing until vomiting that would have woken him up, don't you think?

That’s assuming Chad was in the room during this happening and that he didn’t sleep with ear plugs or a machine for sleep apnea.

Also small side story: my husband is a heavy sleeper and during my pregnancies with my kids I had awful morning sickness. I’d cough and throw up. He never heard most of that during his time he was sleeping.

All jmo and definitely not defending Chad, just giving another side of things.

 

[jjenny]

I wonder if JJ saw what happened to Tylee....
Also, JJ is autistic, so his range of normal behavior is likely not like the average person's. On the other hand, this might well have been a terrified kid, especially now with Tylee out of the picture and no service dog. Maybe not his risperdal, either, which might otherwise have helped him.

I doubt it. I don't think Lori would have let him go to school if he saw something happening to Tylee and could describe it.

 

[RickshawFan]

Lori reminds me of Charles Manson. There is that charismatic bearing that is so similar.

Snipped for focus. The sexual content and the ability to mesmerize is similar, too.
Random recollection that I might not be able to mention on WS: Manson was reportedly priapic. That would take a deep dive into support citations, but this one obliquely points there: Chaos: Charles Manson, the CIA and the Secret History of the Sixties by Tom O’Neill with Dan Piepenbring – review

I will say, the 1960's were sexually permissive. LDS strictures are absolutely, categorically not. Though we might find that CD was headed in that direction. If camping and tents at the end of days weren't for Lori, maybe she and CD also planned on being an exception to the 144k couples with virgin resumés.

 

[jjenny]

So MG was in the house when JJ did that correct? That is a weird thing for a kid to do MOO

MG didn't see it, Lori claimed that JJ did those things.

 

[Trouble1321075]

Lori reminds me of Charles Manson. There is that charismatic bearing that is so similar.

Looks like the noise of her coughing until vomiting that would have woken him up, don't you think?

He may of been in the portal visiting loris closet

 

[Trouble1321075]

Oh, I most certainly agree it would have been a great idea and, obviously, would have borne fruit. However, I say that with the benefit of hindsight. The only issue is whether LE and the prosecution could present sufficient information to obtain a search warrant to search Chad's property. If they did not have Alex's cell phone data analyzed I don't believe they would have had enough basis (at least according to what info we are aware of). Back in December would they have had sufficient basis to dig up the yards of all the family members and Chad's close associates? Clearly not (in my opinion). Maybe it would help me if you write a simple paragraph that you would have presented to the judge supporting a warrant allowing them to dig up the yard without the cell phone data. You may be able to convince me. Give it a shot!

Im suggesting they should of hotten permission for dogs to sniff for the kids scents. Digging up would come later after they got a hit.

 

[nolabound]

That's so easy to explain. She's a manipulating shrew who wraps men around her finger, at will. Giggle, wiggle and stand back and just watch her handiwork. Unfortunately, men's lack of ability to think beyond the little head led to a man being murdered and two children being murdered as well as an innocent woman and maybe many others. Sad situation, IMO.

Be Careful Mr Means, very careful.

 

[Trouble1321075]

I'm not so sure. Finding bodies isn't easy and I understand that the ground was frozen in January. Good things come to those that wait!

Good poi.t about the weather

 

[chwilfrydedd]

We are making an assumption that LVD was telling the truth about JJ climbing the cabinets. It could have just been a story to cover him being gone. It would explain MG not hearing anything.

Hi...just jumping right in after lurking...

 

[QuietStrength]

The court docs in the custody case of Melani BP's father, were very revealing. He states that Lori's father was diagnosed with schizophrenia. Crazy genes in this Cox family, that is for certain.
Request: Could you respond with this link again. I cannot seem to open it. I am assuming you are linking the NCBI article, but not really sure. Thanks

I've wondered about the possibility of late-onset schizophrenia and/or the possibility of hormone flux causing some of the more rash behavioral changes in LVD.

Here's a link to a NIH paper documenting three such cases of menopausal onset schizophrenia:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjABegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw3GQXEAx5LHsOBNrHKII7fe

On the upside, odds are good she will be far too vain to ever admit she was pre-menopausal or menopausal, so that can probably be ruled out as a defense.

Excessive levels of estrogen, such as that encountered on the menopause roller coaster can also increase libido in women, which might explain some other seemingly out of character/new behaviors in 2018 or so?

Add those conditions to existing patterns of behavior, and you most definitely get a whirling dervish that would be difficult to contain?

 

[KonaHonu]

I think -- maybe I totally misread it! -- that the reference to "MNN" mean "the grapevine" (i.e. informal communication) among Mormons, via word-of-mouth. If we assume that the prison's demographics follow the state's demographics, then around 1/4 of the prisoners could be assumed to identify as Mormon. It's an effective, if not super efficient, communication newtork.

If I totally misread the meaning of this, then I apologize in advance

In my experience Mormons are much more likely to be law-abiding than the general population so I doubt the proportion of Mormons in jail is that high. But of course there will always be some.

Every small town/region has something like that. In Idaho it's the MNN, in Hawaii it's the coconut wireless...

 

[Boxer]

Thanks for this post. One thing that bothers me is why would someone randomly shoot a raccoon? At any rate. It shows real calculation to me, almost diabolical planning, to know that he had to create this scenario to dispose of the remains. Whether it involved actually shooting a raccoon or just firing a gun to give the appearance of it. Jmo

If a raccoon was on a fence would come one who cared about the neighbors chidren possibly out vounb

If she is not charged with Charles' death then that police department needs to just resign and the department closed. They never investigated his death competently to begin with. They should be ashamed of themselves.

CB death by gunshot. Police no action, murder under their noses.
TD Coroner, "the husband seemed really sad."

As public employees they had zip energy for these kids and these spouses.

 

[vislaw]

Im suggesting they should of hotten permission for dogs to sniff for the kids scents. Digging up would come later after they got a hit.

You can't ask for a warrant to bring cadaver dogs just to sniff. You have to present probable cause that there are bodies beneath the surface. This is my point. You see, law enforcement had to have sufficient proof of a crime and the likelihood of bodies in order to get a warrant. You will not get a warrant on a simple suspicion in the hopes of developing evidence. No disrespect, but that is the way the law works and it is actually for your and my protection.

 

[gumchew]

Exactly—- I remember in the very beginning when I was looking at the archived versions of Chad‘s books and websites. I know they’re still in the media thread. I first commented that I didn’t find him very religious because of the way he talked about ex girlfriends and told stories of the cemetery dates and so forth. You could say, in my opinion, that a very religious person would not put themselves in a position to spend the night in a situation like that. And I mean that from Chad‘s perspective and also all the other women that stayed. Along those lines I can’t help if what might have been embarrassing to Melanie wasn’t even mentioned in her interview. I can’t help but wonder if polygamy wasn’t discussed and/or brought up in these “small group” meetings.

Specifically addressing why I think she referred to JJ and Tylee as dead. She said this about 1 min in.

“I needed to do it for those that have passed on. That justice may be served. I think it’s fair for Charles, JJ, Tammy and Tylee. That there someone is standing up for them for what happened to them. “

My personal opinion on the word kidnapping is just that it doesn’t fit here with what we know. I’m not sure if Melanie was trying to reference something else or if maybe the nerves were higher at the beginning of the interview and she just chose a weird word. I have not heard the term kidnapping used in MSM in this case at all so I just found her use of the word odd. Especially when she refers to them as “passed on” later on.
I still don’t see kidnapping as fitting. I see it as murder. Unless, we look back to Lori taking Tylee from Joe Ryan and running to Hawaii.

I don’t know. I just find her assumption of them being dead as very telling. It makes me believe she has more information. It just doesn’t seem like something you do, presume someone is dead, in public and on the record. Especially when you are or were close to someone in the situation. And if you did make that statement it seems like you would use a qualifier with it.

I guess if you are a conspiracy theorist you could also wonder if her using that assumption might have been meant to send a message to Lori. Heck you could take it a step further and think the word “kidnapping” was a hint to use that as a defense.
I’m probably overthinking, but I’m known to do that.

I guess a key question would be: when did she have the "you don't want to know" conversation with AC? Because if she was clueless before that moment, she had to understood the implication in that moment. I believe she states in this interview that she thinks they are dead, like, directly, doesn't she? Forget any implied meaning in the first two minutes. Doesn't she actually say it later?

 

[BeckyF]

I have a general question when reading the discussions about potential defenses if anyone knows the answer.
Does an attorney want to know if their client is guilty? If LVD for instance, confessed everything to her lawyer, do they have to report it? I feel like I read or heard somewhere along the line in general knowledge that an attorney can’t hear an admission of guilt and then go to trial. Am I pulling this outta my rear lol? I hope my question makes sense.

Um, no. Attorney client privilege.

 

[Knox]

Next >

MOO ZM was married to AC on Dec 2. Just 10 days before he died of lclots in his lungs.
She was a practioner of Emotion Code, a kind of self help about getting rid of "emotional baggage."

Their marriage Las Vegas wasn't an LDS church sealing. It took 8 minutes with no friends and a security guard as a witness.
MOO his smile at YS with the kids does not jive with killing one hours later.
Hiding and abetting a sister crime, yes, but MOO he wasn't a killer on his own, more a pathological enabler.
Was reported that he and already struggled emotionally with shooting CV. The kids added on would start to deteriorate him if he could not face what LVD was. He might seek help trying to let go of his guilt as "baggage."

He didn't have a lot of choices.
Strengthen his belief in LVDs dark soul BS regard his guilt as "baggage."
Go to the police or die.

I'd like to know more about the marriage and ZP. Why do you suppose ZP thought AxC wanted to take her last name? We've seen all the key and some not so key players interviewed. Everyone but ZP, why is that?

I agree with you, I'm starting to have some doubts about his role in killing Tylee & JJ too.

 

[Michael0808]

Um, no. Attorney client privilege.

I completely understand attorney client privilege and the general process of court. I was more curious on how one might defend LVD for instance, if she confessed to her attorney but did not want a plea. Just some things that I was thinking about when considering the next steps coming up and attorney strategies.
I am now in a rabbit hole of reading about defense strategies to do this, so I’m all set, thank you for your reply!

 

[Knox]

June 24, 2020

Lori Vallow's Sister Admits She Was "Wrong" to Defend Her After Kids' Remains Are Found

Summer Cox Shiflet admits it was wrong to defend her sister.

Summer continued, "I know there are people waiting for me to admit I was wrong. If that's all you want to know... here it is... I was wrong. I am an extremely imperfect person that loves my family with all my heart, and I wanted to believe the best in them, and I held out hope for the best possible outcome. I have always said things truthfully as I understood them, and will continue to do that as I learn new information."

Many of the comments at the end of the article echo my feelings.

 

[KonaHonu]

Here's the deal. Judges are very aware that the constitution prohibits unreasonable search and seizures and that it is imperative that law enforcement and prosecutors be limited to proving truly legitimate reasons to invade someone's property. A search warrant WAS obtained to search the house last year but there was insufficient information to support a claim that bodies were buried on the property. Only after the CAST team put together the information did they have sufficient proof to support the search warrant. I could tell you some hair-raising stories of abuse by prosecutors and police officers so I appreciate that the judiciary requires more than a rubber stamp to support probable cause to search my home and property. We don't know everything yet, but it does appear to me that this has been a careful and professional investigation. Chad and Lori were under watch early on and were in no danger of escaping. Yes, I wish the cell data had been analyzed sooner, but I don't know how much work was being done and in what order. Until we hear more I would respectfully urge us to give law enforcement and the prosecution the benefit of the doubt. Thanks for letting me weight in. Only my opinion, of course, and I respect yours.

I totally agree and posted a very similar defense of LE a few threads back.

I'd also like to point out a couple of specific things. First, once the location data was available on June 1, RPD talked with Chad's sister the very next day and had a search warrant within 3 more days. I actually think they acted very quickly.

Second, we don't know when, how, or even IF they had access to AC's phone. It's not like when a person dies LE automatically gets his phone or even wants it.

Third, from what we've heard, CV was paying for most of the phones in Lori's orbit. If that included AC's then LE may not have even known which phone to look for. They couldn't serve a warrant on Verizon to get location data from everyone's phone because it would not be specific enough. Now, I doubt it took them long to figure out which was likely his but they would still need to establish it well enough to convince a judge. Then the carrier would need some time to respond.

So yes, we are all a little frustrated that L&C got to enjoy their freedom for months longer than they should have, but I think LE has actually done a very professional job in this case and has acted with reasonable speed.

 

[QuietStrength]

RSBM


Organophosphates or cyanide seem promising on cases where we have no autopsy evidence and are working from symptoms, if we know the symptoms. But do we need to work backwards from symptoms for AxC?

With AxC we have a specific cause of death that is not a guess. It's pulmonary thromboembolism. The suspicious circumstances make us question the manner of death. So far I can find only one study that correlates OP poisoning to higher risk of developing DVTs . It didn't show a significantly increased risk of developing PTEs.

So, again, with an already-identified cause of death in which only the manner is in question, acute OP poisoning (short term) as a manner of death seems not to fit the facts we know about cause of death from the ME.

Increased Risk of Deep Vein Thrombosis and Pulmonary Thromboembolism in Patients With Organophosphate Intoxication: A Nationwide Prospective Cohort Study - PubMed

Note: I am not a medical professional, and am relying only on logic, reading comprehension and problem-solving/troubleshooting skills. If I missed a fact or if my reasoning doesn't stand up, I appreciate being corrected or challenged with better information.

Oh, I'm with you there. The other poster just noted they wanted to deep dive the OPPs for possibilities and I was hoping to make it a more streamlined path for them than to confront a wall of science that is a lot to digest at once (three mixed metaphors in one sentence - I KNEW I was off my game today! ).

The big question would be if it's merely a pulmonary embolism or a "pulmonary embolism secondary to ______."

I have a neighbor who's a pathologist who sometimes walks his dog when I walk mine. If I run into him anytime soon, will ask his opinion. My dog likes his dog and vice versa, so we might have a few minutes to chat sometime.