Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #44

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RickshawFan said:
She's only just 47... And a hormone rush, even if LV was an "early adopter" wouldn't persuade you to kill or even to have sex hither and yon (which might not be the case here, either). At any rate, let's not pathologize menopause. No doubt, there are plenty of other more likely reasons for LV to do what she did.
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Agreed. So nicely stated.
 
The First Article said:
Could be.

The complaint she gives about him she is clearly trying to set up a "baby crawling on the ceiling" demon possession story. But yeah, if he was up there he may have been trying to hide.

If he didn't have a reason to hide yet, then I'm wondering if enough of his body is left to check him for sexual assault. If this wasn't just him on the counter getting morning snacks for watching the TV and then knocking off a picture because he was a kid, then this suggests pure terror. What was happening that MG and DW didn't hear anything but JJ was this terrified? Hiding after sexual assault after being drugged? Or what was Lori doing that was this terrifying to a young boy?

She thinks she was giving a good possession story that supported why she would do something horrifying to him - but in fact I think she is admitting to doing something terrifying to this child and then following it up by duct taping him then suffocating him to make him pay for being terrified.



From his body language with her in the second court appearance with him, I think he is afraid of her.
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Agree. To me a kid, including an autistic kid ending up jammed between the ceiling and the top of the cabinets is because of terror.
 
Knox said:
I'm scratching my head on how he could get from the kitchen counter top to the space about the cabinets? In my kitchen that would be impossible.
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MOO open the top cupboard and use the shelves as ladder some kitchens have about 18 inches between the cupboard and ceiling as a kind of open top shelf.
 
Knox said:
Next >

I'd like to know more about the marriage and ZP. Why do you suppose ZP thought AxC wanted to take her last name? We've seen all the key and some not so key players interviewed. Everyone but ZP, why is that?

I agree with you, I'm starting to have some doubts about his role in killing Tylee & JJ too.
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Wonder if was Zulema one of the 144 thousand?
 
pizzaman12 said:
In my opinion, it's no more plausible than any other drug or profession. Nothing is difficult to come by.
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Agreed, but easier to acquire in some walks of life than others?

When I was in a band in my younger years the illicit substances were plentiful subsidy. You didn't even need to ask; they just appeared, as if by magic.

When I worked at a higher end retail business a few years later, I don't think ANY customers tried to subsidize that pitiful income with substances, and they were a MUCH more difficult audience.

So yeah, things can "be gotten" about everywhere, it's just that some occupations tend to run a person closer to a diversity of opportunities, which might be relevant here?

Could we agree it's less of a leap to ask someone to acquire something they'll run into incidentally versus asking someone to go make a buy when it's not a transaction they're used to making?

One which can also be dangerous, depending on the seller and their degree of paranoia about this newbie trying to Venmo "some of that really dangerous opioid, what's its name? The f-stuff that kills a lot of people? Is there tax on that or is it just the $100?" (Awkward transaction as imagined by me, not quoting anything that actually happened).

All that stated, it seems like an exponentially stupid way to kill someone, but then again, nothing about this case was especially clever.

Buying drugs introduces at least one more witness into the pipeline, and at that, someone who might have less of a problem snitching out a murder-oriented buyer should they encounter their own legal issues.

Also Fentanyl seems extremely risky as an intentional poison?
Street drugs and street-acquired pharmaceuticals often come with other ingredients that also leave a questionable trail. I read a DEA report several years ago that listed what was being recovered/found in various cities off the streets. Plenty of counterfeit pharmaceuticals and plenty of altered illicit substances. Seems pretty risky to acquire and use those when you don't know for sure what you're getting?
 
gumchew said:
RSBM

Precisely. Given his previous status in his local ward, maybe someone should have explained that he was taking the term "lay leader" a little too literally.;):p
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That cracked me up!

Maybe as someone who aimed high and wanted to be the Lead Lay Leader, he started multi-tasking with the five female to one male ratio at sleepovers in 2018? Could cover a lot of holy ground that way...
 
The First Article said:
I've just assumed that they were getting married to approved spouses picked out by someone in the cult for this reason.
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Did anyone else hear MG say gathering "couples" in that newest Dateline special? I'm going to go back and listen again, but I'm almost positive she said the word couples.
 
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gumchew said:
That would be so cool! Even better, get him interest in WS! :)
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I will try! :)

He's a genuinely nice guy - secretly, I wondered why someone so pleasant would want to be a pathologist instead of working with patients directly, but maybe that's why he's so pleasant - he's not "over socialized" by the end of the day?

He has a big heart and a deep social conscience (yeah, I'm weird, I don't engage in "small talk," even with the neighbors and fellow dog-mamas and dog-daddies. They may duck & hide from me some days when they're not up for solving humanity's problems... :) ).

He would be an asset here!
 
Knox said:
Next >

I'd like to know more about the marriage and ZP. Why do you suppose ZP thought AxC wanted to take her last name? We've seen all the key and some not so key players interviewed. Everyone but ZP, why is that?

I agree with you, I'm starting to have some doubts about his role in killing Tylee & JJ too.
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There are some anomalies with names between those two. I've seen the marriage certificate. It definitely says Alex said he was taking the name Alex Pastenes after the marriage. And Zulema gives her legal name as Zulema Pastenes. Usually no other paperwork is required to change name as a result of marriage. So his legal name would have been Alex Pastenes when he died. But in the probate filing ZP listed his name as Alex Cox and hers as Zulema Pastenes-Porter. So they could not even seem to keep track of their legal names. Probably no real significance, just strange.
 
KonaHonu said:
There are some anomalies with names between those two. I've seen the marriage certificate. It definitely says Alex said he was taking the name Alex Pastenes after the marriage. And Zulema gives her legal name as Zulema Pastenes. Usually no other paperwork is required to change name as a result of marriage. So his legal name would have been Alex Pastenes when he died. But in the probate filing ZP listed his name as Alex Cox and hers as Zulema Pastenes-Porter. So they could not even seem to keep track of their legal names. Probably no real significance, just strange.
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Probate filing, are there details listed? Did he have any assets?
 
nhmemorymaker said:
Very easy to listen to you... i certainly understand what you are trying to state and what you state well.

It is just hard, when such folks were so determined to paint such a different picture, as the Cox's have done.

Chad's parents are silent. Ian's parents are silent. Melani's father is silent. Tammy's family is silent.

Kay, Larry and Annie Cushing are vocal, but with intent to find justice.

The Cox's were not. They were are the PR campaign.
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Thank you. I get it, I really do. They could have said little or nothing and not exposed themselves to this scrutiny. Unfortunately, the yawning maw of silence begs to be filled, and insecurity abhors a vacuum. I hope those folks find some peace.
 
vislaw said:
I've known and worked with many defense attorneys and prosecutors. Both sides suffer from the curse of being human. One of the more provocative and thoughtful statements on the subject of representing guilty people I've read is here: Why Defense Lawyers Defend Killers and Rapists.
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Article was a great read!

I liked this statement:

"My clients, no matter what they may have done, aren't wicked. They are damaged, deprived or in distress. Their crimes can be understood as the products of awful lives, or of being young, hot-headed and lacking in judgment, or of not having the mental wherewithal to know what they were doing. There is always a story."

Because it seems like that is a lot of what WS tries to do - assemble the story, not necessarily in defense of the accused, but in defense of the defenseless victims.

WSers as a group work together so well to assemble the "gestalt" (to get fancy about it). WSers WILL fill in ALL the blanks!
 
QuietStrength said:
Agreed, but easier to acquire in some walks of life than others?

When I was in a band in my younger years the illicit substances were plentiful subsidy. You didn't even need to ask; they just appeared, as if by magic.

When I worked at a higher end retail business a few years later, I don't think ANY customers tried to subsidize that pitiful income with substances, and they were a MUCH more difficult audience.

So yeah, things can "be gotten" about everywhere, it's just that some occupations tend to run a person closer to a diversity of opportunities, which might be relevant here?
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In college I worked for a time as a technician at a small manufacturing company that made dock-side equipment for the US Navy. A couple of years before I started they had hired a biker gang as technicians. Most did not work out as you might imagine. But the dozen or so that were left were great technicians. Most had done prison time. And any drug you can imagine was in plentiful supply. The worst I ever did was smoke a little pot with my roommates. None of the coworkers ever "pushed" anything but it was an open secret that they could get anything anyone wanted. I ended up getting a few of my friends jobs at the same company. It was a very interesting combination - bikers and geeky engineering students. But everyone got along great and I left with great respect for most of the bikers' tech skills. They were always respectful to us as well.
 
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