Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #108

[crazychris]

Sorry to interrupt the recent topic. In all of the 100 plus threads has anyone suggested that the guy in the blue jacket that was photographed has nothing to do with the murders?

I've wondered that too.

 

[crazychris]

Thank you for your post. Very sorry for the loss of your only child. Can't even find the words to express what I feel.

I always read that in UK, "they have cameras on every corner". Is it true? Do you think the case could have been solved even in a large country like the US, if there were the pics, and the audio, and cameras on both sides of the Monon Bridge?

It is an important issue. Some people here believe we need more cameras, but others feel it is invasion into their privacy. Hence my question.

Thanks. Yes we do have a lot of CCTV here in the UK, virtually on every corner, but not as much in country, rural areas. Whether we'd have had any both sides of the bridge I don't know. If there was one we may be looking at better pics now of BG.

 

[tresir2012]

Assuming there is DNA, is it possible they built the sketch from the DNA? They took a lot of time to come out with that sketch and it isn’t easy. I’ve seen in on a few shows of real crime. Not many people can do it but the resemblance of the sketch matching the suspects is surreal. (I saw 2 or 3 cases but these people have done many more).
I apologize if this has been discussed already or if LE said how the sketch was obtained.
MOO

This is what I believe too, but not many other posters agree.

 

[tresir2012]

It was a combination of the post and another person doing the commenting and it referenced an underage girl. Normally this would be off topic, but since Kelsi addressed it in her video, I'm not sure where it stands TOS wise. Kelsi has stated that it's a song lyric, but no title has been provided and searches have not yielded a result. It's possible that the post and comment paraphrased a song instead of quoting one.

Or possible they were making up lyrics from a real life situation they knew about regarding someone else imo. I hope LE have questioned it anyway.

 

[tresir2012]

I am guessing and this is just my opinion, but since they have video and audio from Liberty German's phone, they probably determined the individual in the blue jacket to be the suspect based on the distance from where she videotaped him to when this person started speaking to the girls. And based on that rough guestimate of how fast a person can walk across an old wooden bridge to when their voice first appeared on Liberty German's recording they are able to guess that he was involved or was very close by to the girls and the person in the blue jacket.

This is all my opinion.

It is also because this guy has never come forward to explain who he was or what he was doing there on the bridge at that time. I believe everyone else is accounted for. MOO

 

[tresir2012]

Hi. Dropped by today to check out the theories about Abby & Libby. Haven't been here since the disappearance of Hillary Sharma in the CVNP.
The murder s of Abby & Libby have been bothering me since they happened. You all raise some interesting points. One thing I haven't seen mentioned in the thread was when LE released the longer audio. At first, they released just the words "down the hill", but then month s later they released "guys, down the hill." They held that back for some reason. My amateur guess is that "guys" is an affectation of speech that they thought might sound familiar to someone.
Also, LE has not said that the girls were sexually assaulted, and if I remember correctly from this thread, they were murdered within minutes of when the video was taken. That suggests no sexual assault, unless it was post mortem.

"Guys" has only recently been released at the April 2019 PC. Minutes could be as long as 59 minutes after the recording so sexual assault could have been possible IMO. Also, if you check the Scanner thread page 10 (see link on page 1 of this thread) there is a bit more info but it cannot be discussed in this thread.

 

[tresir2012]

This is what I believe also. An arrest can only come when they have enough evidence to convict. I think LE has a main suspect but not enough evidence to convict...yet.

I think they have DNA but no match yet. It will come eventually. Look how long they had to wait to get the GSK and others recently. They can't hide from their DNA forever. His world is becoming smaller every day. MOO

 

[Wild Rose]

At the first big presser, LE looked sooo very upset, I assumed at the time that they heard an entire audio. So if the audio is short, they were still startled from what they saw IMO. Few Details. That sounds like SK to me now IMO. Or rage.

 

[Theforeigner]

Or possible they were making up lyrics from a real life situation they knew about regarding someone else imo. I hope LE have questioned it anyway.

Police do have all info on this matter.

 

[Cutiekitty]

I think reasonable doubt means different things to different people. Reasonable doubt is a loose term because it cannot be defined. It is left up to you the individual to define for yourself. And don't we all reason differently? The law is meant to try to be as objective as possible, but it is still interpreted by human beings. And human beings make mistakes.

Different people, different juries, different opinions all trying to come to the same conclusion is sometimes a very difficult task. Opinions change with time, the evidence presented, how it is presented, and who it is presented to.

And where it’s presented at (venue)

 

[tresir2012]

Police do have all info on this matter.

Have you more about this - a link perhaps?

 

[tresir2012]

And where it’s presented at (venue)

The term is "beyond a reasonable doubt" IIRC, meaning to me, "more than" a reasonable doubt. So having a reasonable doubt about someone's guilt is ok to convict, but beyond that one should not convict. MOO

ETA when in doubt I check wiki.

Reasonable doubt - Wikipedia

Eta2 I was not just answering your post but others that were previously addressing the subject too.

 

[Cutiekitty]

The term is "beyond a reasonable doubt" IIRC, meaning to me, "more than" a reasonable doubt. So having a reasonable doubt about someone's guilt is ok to convict, but beyond that one should not convict. MOO

ETA when in doubt I check wiki.

Reasonable doubt - Wikipedia

It’s too early. I was just adding a situation that might influence a jury and venue would. Will go back and read what in the world started this discussion.

Edit: Browsed the convo and clearly still need more caffeine.

 

[mtnlites]

Have you more about this - a link perhaps?

I'm going to assume that since it was public information available to anyone and something made by a family member (and they always start close and fan out so all the family would've been investigated), and the fact that this topic has been discussed repeatedly on various social media platforms and has now been addressed by two family members (BP and Kelsi) that LE knows about it.

 

[TL4S]

This is what I believe too, but not many other posters agree.

In regards to @Pedrosmom 's original post about the YBG sketch being DNA derived. This information explains that the sketch was made only a few days after the murders, off a witness's description.

"But this sketch is not new. The sketch released on Monday was drawn on Feb. 17, 2017, a few days after the victims' bodies were found. The picture was based on the description of a person who saw something that the person felt needed to be reported, according to the sketch artist."

Delphi murders: Investigators have had newly released suspect sketch for 2 years

 

[tresir2012]

I'm going to assume that since it was public information available to anyone and something made by a family member (and they always start close and fan out so all the family would've been investigated), and the fact that this topic has been discussed repeatedly on various social media platforms and has now been addressed by two family members (BP and Kelsi) that LE knows about it.

I have not seen the original posts on SM so it is difficult to comment about them therefore.

The poster I was responding to seemed to make a statement of fact so I was asking for a link, as facts need a link per TOS. We can all make assumptions but I would like to know for sure that LE has looked into this. Otherwise, a tip should be submitted by someone who has the SM post IMO.

 

[tresir2012]

In regards to @Pedrosmom 's original post about the YBG sketch being DNA derived. This information explains that the sketch was made only a few days after the murders, off a witness's description.

"But this sketch is not new. The sketch released on Monday was drawn on Feb. 17, 2017, a few days after the victims' bodies were found. The picture was based on the description of a person who saw something that the person felt needed to be reported, according to the sketch artist."

Delphi murders: Investigators have had newly released suspect sketch for 2 years

I believe both sketches are from Parabon and they have aged them appropriately. I just do not believe LE have had that sketch since 2 days after the murders. First sketch comes out 5 months after the murders, second one comes out 2 years and 2 months after the murders. Why does it take so long for LE to come up with sketches? I know what they have said, but I don't believe it, and furthermore, I don't think witnesses got a good look at him either, and hardly any witnesses saw him anyway it seems.

Just saying.

ETA. I do think they have perps DNA and they are being purposely cagey. They don't want to release anything to indicate SA took place.

MOO

 

[TL4S]

I believe both sketches are from Parabon and they have aged them appropriately. I just do not believe LE have had that sketch since 2 days after the murders. First sketch comes out 5 months after the murders, second one comes out 2 years and 2 months after the murders. Why does it take so long for LE to come up with sketches? I know what they have said, but I don't believe it, and furthermore, I don't think witnesses got a good look at him either, and hardly any witnesses saw him anyway it seems.

Just saying.

MOO

I can respect that. There's a lack of information, and a lot of back and forth in LE's statements. However, I feel that if we mistrust one vital piece of information given to us by LE, than we therefore must mistrust all the information they've given. That leaves us with nothing, and so everyone starts building theories based on whatever they want.

I'm not discrediting your thoughts. It's entirely possible LE says and does things to protect their case. But we really have no way of knowing what's what.

 

[tresir2012]

I can respect that. There's a lack of information, and a lot of back and forth in LE's statements. However, I feel that if we mistrust one vital piece of information given to us by LE, than we therefore must mistrust all the information they've given. That leaves us with nothing, and so everyone starts building theories based on whatever they want.

I'm not discrediting your thoughts. It's entirely possible LE says and does things to protect their case. But we really have no way of knowing what's what.

No prob. Do you know of any other case where it has taken 5 months to produce a witness sketch? I'm not bashing LE just questioning the methods. Why not release "Guys" 2 years ago?

 

[TL4S]

No prob. Do you know of any other case where it has taken 5 months to produce a witness sketch? I'm not bashing LE just questioning the methods. Why not release "Guys" 2 years ago?

No, I know you're not bashing LE. It's been frustrating, to say the least.

As far as the timing for releasing the sketches and "guys" two year later, I can only guess. I think in the beginning, LE was probably very careful what they released, releasing as little as possible until they were further along in the investigation. IMO, the "guys" was so quick and muffled, I don't know that it adds a lot. My feeling is the public wanted more, LE wanted to keep people aware, so they released whatever they could without compromising the investigation.

The sketches, if what LE says is true, maybe came to be as witness statements were corroborated, or as other information was looked at. As we've seen happen here, a wrong sketch can cause a lot of heartache, anger, and lost time. So I don't think LE rushed into releasing either one. I have to assume there was a lot of consideration of evidence before going public. I'm sure LE is frustrated, too. JMO