Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #109

[Spy Versus Spy]

Just focussing again in the last couple of days on the ISP/Gov video of BG that Sunshineray posted again more recently. Certain things strike me more than ever as possible:

The video cuts and loops at that specific point for a reason. Either the possible beginning of a bodily pivot leading to a sudden attack or the drawing of a weapon and subsequent engagement...'Guys...'. Both would lead ,imo, to an understandable panicked loss of camera focus and no more video capture of BG at any point. Phone concealed with audio running.

I originally believed that the video ended here due to loss of focus on BG as a result of the phone being hidden, without the imagined scenarios above, but the cut point is so clinical ( there is no hint at all of the beginnings of any drastic camera movement) that I think it must be to get every scrap possible that could be released that doesnt reveal information damaging to the integrity of the investigation etc. Other than the weapon/attack scenario there is no other video.

I personally favour the revealing of a weapon and a more controlled approach.

.....


The pixelation allows very little, if any, certainty regarding details such as if BG was muttering, smoking, chewing etc...hand movements...even regarding clothing other than what is in the official released descriptions. Any further detail that could be reliably stated would surely have been announced. The appeal to look at the overall qualities of BG is for this reason.

.....



The greatest of all living detective intellects, Mrs SvS, has made only two comments on seeing the footage...
' Christ, someone MUST know who that is....' and ' The white bit on his right side is not his hand, his hand is stuffed firmly into his Jacket's Right pocket ..'

Ive never been a fan of LE knowing who BG/Perp is. Possibly now though ,I think they may KNOW that someone knows who BG/Perp is. ( How exactly, Im unsure)

.......



Moo and speculation

 

[BNA]

Yeah. Did same thing as you...with eye on same thing. I've stated my belief that he was inebriated.

So I get that his gait looks strange in the video, but if his gait was what LE wanted us to focus on, than I feel that's what they would have said. Instead they specified not to.

Well, actually, the public was told both....in the same breath.

 

[BNA]

Just focussing again in the last couple of days on the ISP/Gov video of BG that Sunshineray posted again more recently. Certain things strike me more than ever as possible:

The video cuts and loops at that specific point for a reason. Either the possible beginning of a bodily pivot leading to a sudden attack or the drawing of a weapon and subsequent engagement...'Guys...'. Both would lead ,imo, to an understandable panicked loss of camera focus and no more video capture of BG at any point. Phone concealed with audio running.

I originally believed that the video ended here due to loss of focus on BG as a result of the phone being hidden, without the imagined scenarios above, but the cut point is so clinical ( there is no hint at all of the beginnings of any drastic camera movement) that I think it must be to get every scrap possible that could be released that doesnt reveal information damaging to the integrity of the investigation etc. Other than the weapon/attack scenario there is no other video.

I personally favour the revealing of a weapon and a more controlled approach.

.....


The pixelation allows very little, if any, certainty regarding details such as if BG was muttering, smoking, chewing etc...hand movements...even regarding clothing other than what is in the official released descriptions. Any further detail that could be reliably stated would surely have been announced. The appeal to look at the overall qualities of BG is for this reason.

.....



The greatest of all living detective intellects, Mrs SvS, has made only two comments on seeing the footage...
' Christ, someone MUST know who that is....' and ' The white bit on his right side is not his hand, his hand is stuffed firmly into his Jacket's Right pocket ..'

Ive never been a fan of LE knowing who BG/Perp is. Possibly now though ,I think they may KNOW that someone knows who BG/Perp is. ( How exactly, Im unsure)

.......
While I was reading the beginning parts of your post, a thought occurred to me. (Maybe I oughta quit letting that happen?)

What if the fact that he noticed that a video was being taken is the reason he went after the girls? What if there is a reason why he did not want anybody, anywhere to have video of him?

I am not putting this one up very high on my list of possible motives, just adding it to that list.

I understand that some might say that he would have recovered the phone himself if that was the case.


Moo and speculation

 

[BNA]

Just focussing again in the last couple of days on the ISP/Gov video of BG that Sunshineray posted again more recently. Certain things strike me more than ever as possible:

The video cuts and loops at that specific point for a reason. Either the possible beginning of a bodily pivot leading to a sudden attack or the drawing of a weapon and subsequent engagement...'Guys...'. Both would lead ,imo, to an understandable panicked loss of camera focus and no more video capture of BG at any point. Phone concealed with audio running.

I originally believed that the video ended here due to loss of focus on BG as a result of the phone being hidden, without the imagined scenarios above, but the cut point is so clinical ( there is no hint at all of the beginnings of any drastic camera movement) that I think it must be to get every scrap possible that could be released that doesnt reveal information damaging to the integrity of the investigation etc. Other than the weapon/attack scenario there is no other video.

I personally favour the revealing of a weapon and a more controlled approach.

.....


The pixelation allows very little, if any, certainty regarding details such as if BG was muttering, smoking, chewing etc...hand movements...even regarding clothing other than what is in the official released descriptions. Any further detail that could be reliably stated would surely have been announced. The appeal to look at the overall qualities of BG is for this reason.

.....



The greatest of all living detective intellects, Mrs SvS, has made only two comments on seeing the footage...
' Christ, someone MUST know who that is....' and ' The white bit on his right side is not his hand, his hand is stuffed firmly into his Jacket's Right pocket ..'

Ive never been a fan of LE knowing who BG/Perp is. Possibly now though ,I think they may KNOW that someone knows who BG/Perp is. ( How exactly, Im unsure)

.......



Moo and speculation

While I was reading the beginning parts of your post, a thought occurred to me. (Maybe I oughta quit letting that happen?)

What if the fact that he noticed that a video was being taken is the reason he went after the girls? What if there is a reason why he did not want anybody, anywhere to have video of him?

I am not putting this one up very high on my list of possible motives, just adding it to that list.

I understand that some might say that he would have recovered the phone himself if that was the case.​

 

[CelticIre]

I didn't realize that he had been named a POI in conjunction with this case.

Nor that anyone was awaiting trial for murder yet...

As for whatever are distortions there may be in the individual's face, again -- most likely due to the poor quality of the video and low pixelation.

 

[susiQ]

Nor that anyone was awaiting trial for murder yet...

As for whatever are distortions there may be in the individual's face, again -- most likely due to the poor quality of the video and low pixelation.

@Vesta66S misspoke as Garett Kirts is not a POI in this case, but has indeed been arrested for the murder and torture of Nicole Bowen. There is a dedicated thread for that case.

 

[Michigan]

I think some have speculated that BG may have been far in the distance in the Snapchat photo of Abby. Not sure if this was ever confirmed.

If he WASNT in that photo, how did he ever catch up so closely to them?

Has anyone ever speculated that he came from the opposite direction (towards them) then turned around and started following them? Maybe this is why she started filming?

I don’t understand how he could have caught up to them otherwise, especially given how carefully it seems one needed to walk on that uneven bridge. It looked really deserted behind them. Unless he was running how did he get so close?

MOO

 

[Boxer]

I think some have speculated that BG may have been far in the distance in the Snapchat photo of Abby. Not sure if this was ever confirmed.

If he WASNT in that photo, how did he ever catch up so closely to them?

Has anyone ever speculated that he came from the opposite direction (towards them) then turned around and started following them? Maybe this is why she started filming?

I don’t understand how he could have caught up to them otherwise, especially given how carefully it seems one needed to walk on that uneven bridge. It looked really deserted behind them. Unless he was running how did he get so close?

MOO

MOO the bridge is challenging but not actually difficult. Most with experience crossing it seem to say it only takes 5 minutes.
Even so I think the killer coming from the south is very likely.
If he did come from the a south, I think he would have had his car parked around the bend at the snowbirds house, just out of sight from the trail.
MOO If they got away, they ended up getting killed where he caught up with them.

 

[Michigan]

MOO the bridge is challenging but not actually difficult. Most with experience crossing it seem to say it only takes 5 minutes.
Even so I think the killer coming from the south is very likely.
If he did come from the a south, I think he would have had his car parked around the bend at the snowbirds house, just out of sight from the trail.
MOO If they got away, they ended up getting killed where he caught up with them.

This is interesting. Has anyone ever posted a map of the various locations involved in the crime?

 

[Jax49]

This is interesting. Has anyone ever posted a map of the various locations involved in the crime?

Abigail Williams & Liberty German. Delphi, IN. 2/13/17 - Google My Maps

 

[ACE422]

IMO, there is not enough video evidence to determine whether his gait is due to walking on the bridge, some kind of disability/abnormal mannerisms or because he is hiding something in his pants at that time. Perhaps LE has more video footage which would be easier to distinguish, but with the limited video evidence released to the public, it’s just not enough to make a determination IMO.

 

[moonlessnight]

What is it then? hypothetical question, sort of.

The greatest of all living detective intellects, Mrs SvS, has made only two comments on seeing the footage...
' <modsnip> someone MUST know who that is....' and ' The white bit on his right side is not his hand, his hand is stuffed firmly into his Jacket's Right pocket ..'

 

[Laughing]

Libby was using a DSLR camera and not a phone camera, right?

RSBM

Nope, cell phone for images & audio AFAIK

YMMV LRR

 

[Howcanppldosuch]

If this guy had been wearing a respirator, mask, portable oxygen, or was rolling a tank across an 850-ft railroad trestle in a public park, my guess is that such a wild and distinctive detail would have been noticed and mentioned. I also find myself flummoxed at the subsequent speculation about impotence; there's a rabbit hole even Alice would find farfetched to surmise, I think.

Concurrently, if he's on an oxygen tank and is able to not only hike that bridge trail, but also abduct and murder two healthy young teenage girls and get away in such a short span of time -- then he can probably also jump tall buildings in a single bound, lift elephants with his pinky, and fly.

Logic at its best! Completely agree

 

[Howcanppldosuch]

He had to have been doing some practice runs on that bridge before the day he attacked the girls. He knew it well. I bet people saw him on that bridge the days leading up to the attack. Lone guy, odd looking, coat stuffed.

Amateur opinion and speculation

I agree, people commit crimes and dump bodies in familiar places

 

[moonlessnight]

I thought for her serious photo work she used a real camera?

RSBM

Nope, cell phone for images & audio AFAIK

YMMV LRR

 

[mtnlites]

I thought for her serious photo work she used a real camera?

References have only been made to the camera on the phone, as far as I have seen. Nothing has been mentioned from LE or the fam about retrieving the camera, missing the camera, or Libby having it on her that day. The only references have been to the phone, and mostly within the context of SC.

 

[Spy Versus Spy]

What is it then? hypothetical question, sort of.

Attempted humour ,couching speculative, spousal, opinion.

 

[sunshineray]

References have only been made to the camera on the phone, as far as I have seen. Nothing has been mentioned from LE or the fam about retrieving the camera, missing the camera, or Libby having it on her that day. The only references have been to the phone, and mostly within the context of SC.

I believe Abby's Mom was asked this in the Renner interview and she said the girls didn't have a regular camera that day, just Libby's phone.

 

[tresir2012]

I think some have speculated that BG may have been far in the distance in the Snapchat photo of Abby. Not sure if this was ever confirmed.

If he WASNT in that photo, how did he ever catch up so closely to them?

Has anyone ever speculated that he came from the opposite direction (towards them) then turned around and started following them? Maybe this is why she started filming?

I don’t understand how he could have caught up to them otherwise, especially given how carefully it seems one needed to walk on that uneven bridge. It looked really deserted behind them. Unless he was running how did he get so close?

MOO

I think they must have gone off the end of the bridge to the underneath and goofed about a bit then came back up and saw him approaching. SC of Abby was 2.07 PM and BG video was 2.30 pm so that explains why he wasn't in view in the SC pic. The girls would not have been on the bridge for 20 minutes unless they sat around chatting on one of the platforms for a bit. MOO