Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #110

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JnRyan said:
Good find. This investigation appears to have an unusual amount of resources - both financial and personnel - being applied to it. For sure they need the resources to cover over 40K in tips. But sooner or later - if it hasn't happened already - ISP Superintendent Carter is going to be asked hard questions by his bosses in the state capital. When money gets tight the areas where most of it is going becomes a target for trimming or cutting back. Someone like the state comptroller or internal auditor is going to question the tips. I struggle to recall a case with even one fourth that number of tips so this is highly unusual. But money counters and auditors focus on the unusual. At some point they are going to question if some law of diminishing returns is in play here. Of the last 1000 tips does LE get maybe - and I'm just throwing out a number for emphasis - 40 tips that require effort and are not repeat tips? Compared to maybe a much higher percentage in the first 10000? IOW, is LE getting quantity, but not quality.

We have two unsolved murders to the west of me - Heidi Childs and David Metzler - and it appears we have had more press conferences here in the first 6 months, maybe the first month, than has been held in the entire 10 years of the unsolved Childs/Metzler murders. And every time there is a conference here in Delphi we hear that X number of tips have been received, thus boosting the total number of tips reported to the public. Don't get me wrong, LE is not doing anything wrong here with PC's. I wish more LE agencies would do this. The PC's keep the case alive in the public's mind and the more you do that the greater the chance of someone with doubts about a possible suspect calls in that one crucial tip. But the other side of the double edged sword is the powers that be in the state capital questioning whether this is propping up the argument for a larger than usual staff. They're going to be asking the ISP what have you done for us lately.
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I think the high turnover in cyber crimes personnel has a lot to do with the cost. Hundred thousand to train each is an obscene amount, IMO. The people providing the training to LE should look at these amounts and cringe. The market needs more competition to lower the costs for these LE departments across the country. These are children's lives , wellbeing that is being addressed. It shouldn't cost our LE so much to do their job of serving and protecting the most helpless of all in our society. Seems the whole tech side of forensics is being gouged. AJMO
 
TL4S said:
I was also under the impression the OBG came from more than one witness, but all the LE statements I've found on MSM says it came from one witness, along with other resources. That's why I'm thinking it was a mixture of witness, video, and perhaps profiling.

I wonder if there are any more sketches in their files.
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I've heard LE state that one witness - a woman, by use of the pronoun 'she' - was included in the original sketch. LE never really says how many or who, but allude to the fact it is a result of 'tips' or persons, plural. Like this article:
Delphi murders: Indiana State Police release suspect sketch in slayings of 2 girls
"According to Riley, authorities have been working on the composite drawing for "a while" throughout the five-month investigation with help from people who have come forward in the case." People? Plural?
(I find it interesting that when asked, LE states the sketch was released because "it needed to come out". Really? Like this is not released earlier because it only something the killer would know? I wonder if it wasn't released because of a lack of confidence on LE's part.)
This article seems to allude to multiple sources, "including one woman who told police she saw this man..." "Including"?? Indicating that her account is 'included' in the source(s) for the sketch? Not sole source, but 'included'.
Police release sketch of man accused of murdering Delphi teens Liberty German and Abigail Williams

But then we have Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby who says it is from "a witness":
Police unveil composite sketch of Delphi double homicide suspect
 
TL4S said:
I was also under the impression the OBG came from more than one witness, but all the LE statements I've found on MSM says it came from one witness, along with other resources. That's why I'm thinking it was a mixture of witness, video, and perhaps profiling.

I wonder if there are any more sketches in their files.
Click to expand...
Somewhere in an article it was MNentioned the OGB sketch was a composite done from multiple witnesses. I'm sure I read that. Now to try and find it, may take awhile.
 
JnRyan said:
I've heard LE state that one witness - a woman, by use of the pronoun 'she' - was included in the original sketch. LE never really says how many or who, but allude to the fact it is a result of 'tips' or persons, plural. Like this article:
Delphi murders: Indiana State Police release suspect sketch in slayings of 2 girls
"According to Riley, authorities have been working on the composite drawing for "a while" throughout the five-month investigation with help from people who have come forward in the case." People? Plural?
(I find it interesting that when asked, LE states the sketch was released because "it needed to come out". Really? Like this is not released earlier because it only something the killer would know? I wonder if it wasn't released because of a lack of confidence on LE's part.)
This article seems to allude to multiple sources, "including one woman who told police she saw this man..." "Including"?? Indicating that her account is 'included' in the source(s) for the sketch? Not sole source, but 'included'.
Police release sketch of man accused of murdering Delphi teens Liberty German and Abigail Williams

But then we have Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby who says it is from "a witness":
Police unveil composite sketch of Delphi double homicide suspect
Click to expand...
Thanks for the links. Reading through these...it's like a magical mystery tour.
 
sunshineray said:
I think the high turnover in cyber crimes personnel has a lot to do with the cost. Hundred thousand to train each is an obscene amount, IMO. The people providing the training to LE should look at these amounts and cringe. The market needs more competition to lower the costs for these LE departments across the country. These are children's lives , wellbeing that is being addressed. It shouldn't cost our LE so much to do their job of serving and protecting the most helpless of all in our society. Seems the whole tech side of forensics is being gouged. AJMO
Click to expand...
Given the amount of funds required just to get one police officer or state patrol officer on the job, I would have thought it was understated. There is the cost of screening applicants along with extensive background checks and possible interviews with those who know the applicant. The folks doing this process are not out solving crimes so their cost is an expense to training. Then there is the training itself and if in the case of a state patrol officer, they may be housed in barracks. These barracks cost money. There are their training officers, mostly experienced LEO's and they had to be trained to learn how to train. All of this is not used to solve crimes, but a cost of training. Then there is equipment, ammunition, weapons and supplies - vehicles to teach candidates how to drive in all possible scenarios, weapons quals, tear use, etc. This is all not used in solving a crime, but a cost of training. Then the LEO may be in a probationary status riding with an experience LEO who was possibly trained in how to train a probationary officer. This training took the training officer off the street and is not used in solving a crime, but a cost of training. Then we two LEO's in a vehicle that may only have one, normally not cost effective use of resources, but needed to train the new LEO. And it isn't a static process - i.e., these training officers will likely be rotated back to patrol and the funding process begins again with training a new trainer.

Now we have to take the experience LEO's out of patrol to train them and someone has to be trained to that task as instructors. These trainers may have to go off to a week or even multi-week course at Quantico or Albany GA and there is the per diem and travel. Then there are facilities and equipment that have to be used. And the training has to be periodically reviewed and revised to reflect newly discovered technology and equipment. All of this does not directly solve a crime, but is training.

Coming from my background as a government auditor, I'm questioning if $100K is understated.
 
sunshineray said:
I don't know, possibly. I was thinking the audio may have been greatly muffled if it was in Libby's pocket.
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I'm an idiot, sorry. Now I see the "key clip" must have meant the key evidence... the video clip. I think you could be right that the phone was damaged, or it meant bypassing the passwords to access the data?
 
sunshineray said:
Looks like a hoodie to me.
Click to expand...
In the description I saw, ISP say he is wearing a hat. Now the link in the middle of this release does actually say a hoodie so I'm confused again.

Having trouble viewing this email? View it as a Web page.

isp-header-image3_crop.png

INDIANA STATE POLICE
Indiana Government Center North
100 N Senate Ave
Indianapolis, IN 46214

www.in.gov/isp

FOR RELEASE: Upon Receipt

Capt. David R. Bursten
Chief Public Information Officer
317-232-0064
dbursten@isp.in.gov @dbursten

April 22, 2019

New 'Face' of the Delphi Murder Suspect


Delphi, Indiana - Early this afternoon Indiana State Police Superintendent Doug Carter spoke with members of the Delphi community and interested media to share the change in direction of the Delphi double murder investigation of Abigail (Abby) Williams and Liberty (Libby) German. This investigation has been ongoing since the discovery of the girls bodies, the early afternoon of February 14, 2017, in a wooded area near the Delphi Historic Trail, about a half mile upstream from the high bridge.

Today, a new sketch of the suspect, appearing to be in his mid-twenties to mid-thirties and believed responsible for the murders of the girls, was shared with the Delphi community and media. As the investigation has progressed, information has been continuously reviewed and examined and this sketch more accurately depicts the face of the suspect from the video recorded on Liberty German's cell phone while she and Abigail were on the High Bridge.

Also shared with the Delphi community was more of the audio, as well as previously unreleased video from Libby's phone. The sketch, audio and video footage can be viewed at this Indiana State Police website link: ISP: Delphi Homicide Investigation

As Superintendent Carter said today, "We have a witness. You made mistakes. We are coming for you and there's no place for a heartless coward like you to hide that gets his thrill from killing little girls."

This investigation has been a priority of the Multi-Agency Task Force since the first day of the investigation and will continue to be a priority for all participating law enforcement agencies.

Look at the sketch, listen to the audio, watch how this coward walks on the high bridge and send your tip to this email: Abbyandlibbytip@cacoshrf.com

sketch-for-isp_crop.jpg

This is the face of the suspect that goes with body of the video captured on Liberty German's cell phone minutes before she and Abigail Williams were murdered

###

BURSTEN / RILEY

Suspects are Presumed Innocent Until Proven Guilty in a Court of Law

isp-section-divider_crop.png
 
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I've been reluctant to say there's anything stated by LE hinting at the crime scene, or manner of death, possible SA, what have you. I think they're careful with this information. But this paragraph makes me very sad.

ISP: We're 'one tip away' from solving Delphi murders
“This is very personal to me. And maybe it’s because I’m in the sunset of my career, but it’s the epitome of evil," Carter said. "Those two girls, once we tell you all we know about them you might understand a little bit more about why it’s so emotional, but I think of Abby and Libby all the time."
 
TL4S said:
I was also under the impression the OBG came from more than one witness, but all the LE statements I've found on MSM says it came from one witness, along with other resources. That's why I'm thinking it was a mixture of witness, video, and perhaps profiling.

I wonder if there are any more sketches in their files.
Click to expand...
No link, but my ISP friend told me in the beginning, they were doing hundreds of sketches. I also posted this quite awhile back and also asked the question why was the new sketch chosen? What made them go back to him?
 
Krwiley60 said:
No link, but my ISP friend told me in the beginning, they were doing hundreds of sketches. I also posted this quite awhile back and also asked the question why was the new sketch chosen? What made them go back to him?
Click to expand...
Yes, those questions in one form or another keep popping up on here. They are questions that bother most if not all of us. LE is between a rock and a hard place. Does the "new direction" and new sketch negatively impact LE's credibility in the case? The public's confidence in their investigation? And yet if by making the answers known, even if very well understood, does it jeopardize their case?

But there is one positive. It keeps the public talking about it. A marketing person once told me, "You need publicity and sometimes less than stellar publicity is better than none at all." I questioned that at the time and still wonder about it, but here it is working for LE.
 
TL4S said:
I've been reluctant to say there's anything stated by LE hinting at the crime scene, or manner of death, possible SA, what have you. I think they're careful with this information. But this paragraph makes me very sad.

ISP: We're 'one tip away' from solving Delphi murders
“This is very personal to me. And maybe it’s because I’m in the sunset of my career, but it’s the epitome of evil," Carter said. "Those two girls, once we tell you all we know about them you might understand a little bit more about why it’s so emotional, but I think of Abby and Libby all the time."
Click to expand...
Yes, these remarks, as well as the details of other cases where children have been abducted and murdered, lead us to speculate their deaths were gruesome.

However, the depraved details only matter as it relates to trial and penalty. What matters now is finding The Loser, who I speculate is an Impotent Coward, and then having the joy of sneering, jeering, and laughing at him in his cute little orange jumpsuit and snazzy accessory handcuffs, that will just off set the orange in his ensemble oh so nicely.

Looking forward to that!

Amateur opinion and speculation
 
rosesfromangels said:
Yes, these remarks, as well as the details of other cases where children have been abducted and murdered, lead us to speculate their deaths were gruesome.

However, the depraved details only matter as it relates to trial and penalty. What matters now is finding The Loser, who I speculate is an Impotent Coward, and then having the joy of sneering, jeering, and laughing at him in his cute little orange jumpsuit and snazzy accessory handcuffs, that will just off set the orange in his ensemble oh so nicely.

Looking forward to that!

Amateur opinion and speculation
Click to expand...
I'd like to think it could also be something LE heard in the audio, maybe the way the girls handled themselves, or defended each other, whatever. Maybe I'm being unrealistic.
 
JnRyan said:
Given the amount of funds required just to get one police officer or state patrol officer on the job, I would have thought it was understated. There is the cost of screening applicants along with extensive background checks and possible interviews with those who know the applicant. The folks doing this process are not out solving crimes so their cost is an expense to training. Then there is the training itself and if in the case of a state patrol officer, they may be housed in barracks. These barracks cost money. There are their training officers, mostly experienced LEO's and they had to be trained to learn how to train. All of this is not used to solve crimes, but a cost of training. Then there is equipment, ammunition, weapons and supplies - vehicles to teach candidates how to drive in all possible scenarios, weapons quals, tear use, etc. This is all not used in solving a crime, but a cost of training. Then the LEO may be in a probationary status riding with an experience LEO who was possibly trained in how to train a probationary officer. This training took the training officer off the street and is not used in solving a crime, but a cost of training. Then we two LEO's in a vehicle that may only have one, normally not cost effective use of resources, but needed to train the new LEO. And it isn't a static process - i.e., these training officers will likely be rotated back to patrol and the funding process begins again with training a new trainer.

Now we have to take the experience LEO's out of patrol to train them and someone has to be trained to that task as instructors. These trainers may have to go off to a week or even multi-week course at Quantico or Albany GA and there is the per diem and travel. Then there are facilities and equipment that have to be used. And the training has to be periodically reviewed and revised to reflect newly discovered technology and equipment. All of this does not directly solve a crime, but is training.

Coming from my background as a government auditor, I'm questioning if $100K is understated.
Click to expand...
That quote I was speaking to sounded like it was specific to the training of using tech in a crimes against children taskforce. That would most likely deal with officers on the force who show an interest or have a proclivity for that type of tech work. Training for that at 100 thousand dollars a person seems over priced to me. I don't mean as in what the going rate is right now for such training, I mean what the going rate should be. A lot less IMO.
 
JnRyan said:
Yes, now we know how the newly released sketch came about. From ONE witness 3 days after the killings were discovered. But it leaves unanswered questions about the sketch originally released. LE stated it was a composite from more than one witness or words to that effect. Why did it take months for that originally released sketch to come out? Was LE not confident in it - i.e., they were struggling to get a consensus from the witnesses? Or had LE deemed it critical information that they did not want released to the public? Was the witness for this newly released sketch one of those considered in rendering the original sketch? What did that one witness think of the first sketch? Is there something about the first sketch that is still relevant? After all, the ISP Superintendent said in an interview 2-3 weeks after the release of the 2nd sketch that he believed the killer could look like a combination of the two sketches so is there something about the original sketch that would make it still valid?

Would any of these answers help the general public ID the killer for LE? I have no idea and certainly LE would not reveal who the witnesses for their protection and to protect the case, so they can't be asked. But there are two sets of families and certainly many members of the Delphi community who have helped with probably these same questions. It's no wonder the families left before the 22 April PC in tears. They're wondering what they've been doing for 2 years. They have been very strong in their support of LE for over 2 years and now did they feel they got the rug pulled out from under them?
Click to expand...
I agree I don't think they were initially confident in the new, but done 3 days after, drawing, but may have been able to make use of voice technology enabling them to get a physical rendition of the face the voice belongs to. MOO
 
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