Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #110

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But thousands of tips pre OBG sketch.
This case is so flipping odd.

And here we sit, waiting for "some day."

That's just not right, imo.

I get the feeling that something along these lines is one of the things that had the families so upset after speaking with the Supt on 4/22/19

Does somebody key to the case have to die of old age or sickness or misadventure before a move is made, or what?

Do we have to wait for new prosecutors or new leaders in the state capital (or the nation's capital*)? I just don't get it. Sorry.

*Referring to how the Supt got his job, is what I am saying on that last part. I am reasonably certain that Supt. Carter is a nice man...not a criticism of his character at all.
 
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This case is so flipping odd.

And here we sit, waiting for "some day."

That's just not right, imo.

Does somebody key to the case have to die of old age or sickness or misadventure before a move is made, or what?

Do we have to wait for new prosecutors or new leaders in the state capital (or the nation's capital*)? I just don't get it. Sorry.

*Referring to how the Supt got his job, is what I am saying on that last part. I am reasonably certain that Supt. Carter is a nice man...not a criticism of his character at all.
Lobby for more law enforcement resources, particularly as it relates to the forensics labs. The backlog is astronomical.

Amateur opinion and speculation
 
I think the high turnover in cyber crimes personnel has a lot to do with the cost. Hundred thousand to train each is an obscene amount, IMO. The people providing the training to LE should look at these amounts and cringe. The market needs more competition to lower the costs for these LE departments across the country. These are children's lives , wellbeing that is being addressed. It shouldn't cost our LE so much to do their job of serving and protecting the most helpless of all in our society. Seems the whole tech side of forensics is being gouged. AJMO

The high turn over probably has a lot to do with economic opportunities that present themselves once training has been received. State LE pays ok, but federal and private sector pays a whole lot better. JMO

Might have a little to do with burnout too. It would be rough looking at what those investigators have to look at all day every day.
 
If true, could dna be extracted from the fetus to determine the father? This theory is far fetched IMO. I don’t believe either girl was pregnant and that was the motive for the murders.

I’ve seen the messages you referenced and Kelsi addresses them in her latest video. I think the messages are really (really, really, really) stupid, offensive, in bad taste, etc. But not based on factual real life. Just two guys being very dumb. Moo

That particular family member would have been one of the first people looked into. Everyone has seen that message exchange by this point. LE probably saw it way before we did. By the time Joe Schmos like us see or hear anything, it's likely that it's already old news to LE. The idea of one of the girls being pregnant is a hateful rumor with no foundation in fact.
 
In some ways, this case reminds me of Shauna Howe's murder. Shauna was an 11 yo in a small, Pennsylvanian town who was abducted and murdered walking home after a Halloween party. It was a tiny town that didn't have a lot of crime and it rocked the population to the core. Basically everyone in town became a suspect. Talk about a Peyton Place-secrets came out about the townspeople that nobody thought would see the light of day. LE took DNA samples from over 100 people in town. They released as much info as they could, but they had to hold back a lot because they were afraid it would hurt the trial (if there ever was one). Townspeople got really upset with LE because they thought LE should've released more. LE made the same comments with that case that they do with this one: we have a lot of pieces and are just waiting for that ONE tip, he's probably local, be aware of what your kids are doing, we need the public's help in identifying this sketch, etc. All pretty standard things for them to say. Later, though, they also said that they thought they might have been onto something earlier in the investigation so they wanted to start over.

Despite their work, the case went cold. When they were FINALLY able to solve it, about 12 years later, it wound up being three men that they'd looked at in that first week after her murder. Those men had been excluded early on because the DNA didn't match Ted and Jim/Tim O'brien weren't tested because they were incarcerated at the time of the crime so they had an alibi. As it turned out, they'd bonded out earlier that day and NOBODY working the case had been aware of that. The DNA test was done on them and there was a match. Ted, the third man, was also convicted.

So, at the end of the day, the detectives had actually solved the case in the very beginning. They'd just made the mistake of not following through with the alibi. You hear someone's in jail, you look at the records and see that they were there, that's a pretty good alibi. They'd just never seen the part about them bonding out later that same day...People had also identified Ted from the sketch early on, but his DNA hadn't matched so he was excluded. It didn't match because he hadn't participated in the SA, but he WAS a big part in the abduction.

That's where I think LE may be at now. I think they were onto something in the beginning, but something happened to make the cross that guy off. A strong alibi, no DNA match, etc. I think they had a pretty good idea of what happened early on, but that theory was shot when it didn't fit the evidence. Perhaps they need to look at that evidence and that person again.
 
It is my understanding that the video released is a zoomed in portion of the video shot while on the bridge. I understand they may not want to release the original because it might contain one of the girls in the video.

I think if they did we have some people with the ability to give us a clearer picture of this guy.

Do you guys think they would every release the original video(just the clip we have seen) with the original resolution?

MOO what we see is frames pulled from a messy video sweep. Raw video may reveal something about Libby's movements and therefore only things that are only known by the killer and the police.
 
Lobby for more law enforcement resources, particularly as it relates to the forensics labs. The backlog is astronomical.

Amateur opinion and speculation
I would tend to think that the lab is state owned and operated. ISP are on this case. I don’t think this has to do with the lab. MOO
 
that is interesting. I assume it does mean BG attempted to destroy Libby's phone, and rather than risk taking it with him, left it assuming the data was inaccessible.

"Without that unit [Computer Crimes Against Children], the key clip from Libby’s cell phone may have never been recovered and now, without funding, other cases could also go without the specialized unit’s help."

This part from the second article you linked hints that Libby's phone might have been damaged. Possibly taken and smashed or even thrown in the water?
 
that is interesting. I assume it does mean BG attempted to destroy Libby's phone, and rather than risk taking it with him, left it assuming the data was inaccessible.

BG may not have tried to damage the phone. It could've fallen out of Libby's hand while struggling or running.
 
I've been thinking about the YBG sketch, and how LE has said it's a more accurate representation of the killer. The suspect description didn't change, but the age did, and they went so far as to say he has a "youthful appearance." The YBG sketch artist also said it's a "ballpark" image, while Carter says the killer will probably be a combination of the two sketches.

It all sounds convoluted, but maybe it's not. If LE has reason to think BG is younger than originally thought, and they possess possibly "hundreds" of sketches, maybe YBG was simply an "average" of what they have, and younger looking, so they went with it. They needed some kind of face to get people's minds switched to BG being as much as 20 years younger than what everyone was looking for.

So BG doesn't look just like the YBG sketch, who obviously the witness didn't see well enough to give more than a "ballpark" description of, anyway. But he looks a lot younger than the OBG. And if there were witnesses, maybe none of them saw him well enough to be accurate, so other evidence is included in the description. JMO
 
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I would tend to think that the lab is state owned and operated. ISP are on this case. I don’t think this has to do with the lab. MOO
In another case connected to Delphi, DNA taken in April is not expected back till Nov, so it does take a long time and if there are a lot of POI's other cases will take precedence IMO.
 
In some ways, this case reminds me of Shauna Howe's murder. Shauna was an 11 yo in a small, Pennsylvanian town who was abducted and murdered walking home after a Halloween party. It was a tiny town that didn't have a lot of crime and it rocked the population to the core. Basically everyone in town became a suspect. Talk about a Peyton Place-secrets came out about the townspeople that nobody thought would see the light of day. LE took DNA samples from over 100 people in town. They released as much info as they could, but they had to hold back a lot because they were afraid it would hurt the trial (if there ever was one). Townspeople got really upset with LE because they thought LE should've released more. LE made the same comments with that case that they do with this one: we have a lot of pieces and are just waiting for that ONE tip, he's probably local, be aware of what your kids are doing, we need the public's help in identifying this sketch, etc. All pretty standard things for them to say. Later, though, they also said that they thought they might have been onto something earlier in the investigation so they wanted to start over.

Despite their work, the case went cold. When they were FINALLY able to solve it, about 12 years later, it wound up being three men that they'd looked at in that first week after her murder. Those men had been excluded early on because the DNA didn't match Ted and Jim/Tim O'brien weren't tested because they were incarcerated at the time of the crime so they had an alibi. As it turned out, they'd bonded out earlier that day and NOBODY working the case had been aware of that. The DNA test was done on them and there was a match. Ted, the third man, was also convicted.

So, at the end of the day, the detectives had actually solved the case in the very beginning. They'd just made the mistake of not following through with the alibi. You hear someone's in jail, you look at the records and see that they were there, that's a pretty good alibi. They'd just never seen the part about them bonding out later that same day...People had also identified Ted from the sketch early on, but his DNA hadn't matched so he was excluded. It didn't match because he hadn't participated in the SA, but he WAS a big part in the abduction.

That's where I think LE may be at now. I think they were onto something in the beginning, but something happened to make the cross that guy off. A strong alibi, no DNA match, etc. I think they had a pretty good idea of what happened early on, but that theory was shot when it didn't fit the evidence. Perhaps they need to look at that evidence and that person again.
That's a great example of how things can get overlooked. Thanks for posting that.
 
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