Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #110

[Charlot123]

So what is your point then? We shouldn't be debating the scarf? You said you didn't follow me. What exactly don't you follow about what I have said? Not being rude but I can't answer or explain any more than I have, I'm afraid. We have threads and threads about the hat/hair/hoodie/jacket/boots/fanny pack/jeans/footwear/white thing so why not the scarf too?
AJMO

You forgot a baby goat and a respirator

We are going in rounds, but I think they are becoming narrower.

Personally, I think he was too smart to wear anything identifying, so it was a thin scarf, or something people in northern latitudes wear.

 

[tresir2012]

No colour was mentioned.

Delphi teens: What we know this weekend

Bumping for @gitana1

From the link -

"Police are seeking help identifying a subject in a photo they released. The subject — who was wearing a dark blue jacket, jeans, hat and scarf — was walking the Delphi trail system at the time the girls disappeared, according to police."

 

[tresir2012]

You forgot a baby goat and a respirator

We are going in rounds, but I think they are becoming narrower.

Personally, I think he was too smart to wear anything identifying, so it was a thin scarf, or something people in northern latitudes wear.

I deffo am not talking about goats.

 

[gitana1]

Bumping for @gitana1

From the link -

"Police are seeking help identifying a subject in a photo they released. The subject — who was wearing a dark blue jacket, jeans, hat and scarf — was walking the Delphi trail system at the time the girls disappeared, according to police."

You realize that was from two years ago when they were first asking for anyone who might have seen the perp that day to come forward? Sorry. I don't think his scarf is going to help witnesses ID him now and LE hasn't mentioned it since. But if you feel it is important, carry on.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

You realize that was from two years ago when they were first asking for anyone who might have seen the perp that day to come forward? Sorry. I don't think his scarf is going to help witnesses ID him now and LE hasn't mentioned it since. But if you feel it is important, carry on.

Respectfully, almost everything we discuss is from two years ago. We haven't been given much for new information since the crime took place.
jmo

 

[tresir2012]

You realize that was from two years ago when they were first asking for anyone who might have seen the perp that day to come forward? Sorry. I don't think his scarf is going to help witnesses ID him now and LE hasn't mentioned it since. But if you feel it is important, carry on.

Of course I realise that. Why are you being so dismissive? I was just answering your post. What do you think he left behind?

 

[sunshineray]

RSBM

Hi sunshineray,

Dennis Radar (BTK) was active in his church and president of the church council, as well as being a Cub Scout leader.
(Found on Wikipedia)

I can’t wrap my head around how some people compartmentalize their lives and turn their emotions on and off like a water faucet.
(JMO)

~RIP M+J

Wow I didn't realize how all the circumstantial evidence in that case didnt spawn an arrest and only a court warrant to test a family member's PAP smear caught him. God I pray Libby and Abby managed to scratch their killer and LE has good DNA struggle evidence to work with in the Delphi case.

 

[Ellie1]

I haven’t managed to keep up with all the threads so this may have been suggested but does anyone else think it’s possible he’s wearing a skull face bandana (which could be misinterpreted as a scarf), similar to this one, around his neck? It could explain the odd shape of the white thing if it’s a print on a black bandana. They seem pretty common. Just a thought, MOO.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Skeleton...2lKUV-8IjiUQcaEZkcZUMHCxKDAdlzGBoC0CcQAvD_BwE

 

[tresir2012]

I haven’t managed to keep up with all the threads so this may have been suggested but does anyone else think it’s possible he’s wearing a skull face bandana (which could be misinterpreted as a scarf), similar to this one, around his neck? It could explain the odd shape of the white thing if it’s a print on a black bandana. They seem pretty common. Just a thought, MOO.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Skeleton...2lKUV-8IjiUQcaEZkcZUMHCxKDAdlzGBoC0CcQAvD_BwE

I agree it could be something like that- it has been suggested before too. Less likely to fall off and get left behind though, like a scarf would. Except LE said it was a scarf. But maybe even a scarf tied like cowboys wear, for disguise, protection against wind, etc.

 

[sunshineray]

I have been a teenage girl and I have 2 teens currently. I do not think my kids (as bright and "street smart" as they are) would have the presence of mind to call 911 if they were truly scared and in immediate danger. If they were suspicious of someone, I could see them taking a photo or video, but definitely not calling 911 just to report the suspicion. We've talked a lot about trusting your gut and getting away from situations that just don't feel right -- maybe that's what Libby was feeling at the time the video started? Kids are not wired to think that their lives are in danger and their frontal lobes are not developed enough to properly process danger and/or make the best decisions. This is nothing at all against these 2 girls -- this is true of all teens.

I am also surprised that I see defensiveness on the part of posters here when it is suggested that the girls might have planned to meet someone that day (whether on social media or some other form of communication). This is not victim blaming. They did nothing wrong. Even if they planned to meet someone, they did not deserve to be attacked and murdered. That said, just because they were "good kids" does not mean that they didn't date or experiment with risky behaviors. I think a lot of people on here are older (myself included) and forget what it was like to be 13 or 14. Kids this age make bad decisions, even if they are smart, come from loving homes, volunteer in the community, etc. etc. Kids should be allowed to make mistakes and learn life lessons without being murdered by some crazy guy on a bridge. This case is heartbreaking & my heart aches for the families.

According to Abby's mom, I believe in a Renner interview, the parts of the audio played for her had Abby saying something about getting away from the bridge and Libby replying to her something along the lines of, we can't the trail ends there. So they definitely were uneasy about BG approaching their space and talked about the possibility of putting distance between them. It breaks the heart.

 

[TL4S]

According to Abby's mom, I believe in a Renner interview, the parts of the audio played for her had Abby saying something about getting away from the bridge and Libby replying to her something along the lines of, we can't the trail ends there. So they definitely were uneasy about BG approaching their space and talked about the possibility of putting distance between them. It breaks the heart.

LE says Libby is a hero because she took video of him just before what they "believe to be criminal behavior about to occur." And at that time the girls seemed to be discussing an alternate route to avoid him.

Fast forward to the "down the hill" audio, which LE has said was taken "during criminal activities" and according to one news report, Libby hit record after he approached them near the bridge. (Link:ISP: More audio recovered from slain Delphi teen's phone )

This has been discussed repeatedly, I know, but what nags me is what happened to make Libby turn off the video, and at a later time turn on the recorder? (This is my interpretation of what must have happened based on LE's wording) We don't know how much time passed between. Was is seconds? A minute? Ten minutes?

If he approached them immediately at the end of the bridge, why didn't Libby just leave her video going? This is partly why I wonder if there was a point between the bridge video and the "down the hill" audio, where the girls didn't feel threatened. This is also where I question a separation between BG and girls, whether that be via recrossing the bridge, or the girls choosing the creek (maybe even planning on coming out on the road by the cemetery to catch Libby's dad on his way there?). If they felt they'd shaken BG, no more need to video, or call for help, but then bam, there he is right by them in the woods. Hit record.

 

[Spy Versus Spy]

DBM

 

[Spy Versus Spy]

You realize that was from two years ago when they were first asking for anyone who might have seen the perp that day to come forward? Sorry. I don't think his scarf is going to help witnesses ID him now and LE hasn't mentioned it since. But if you feel it is important, carry on.

........and Welcome back around to where I started....( there now follows 4 pages of to and fro with Tresir, sometime curt, sometimes humourous, sometimes oblique. Then gitana, you post a comment about your own post , suspecting yourself of thinking a scarf will be the key, whilst asking yourself if the fact LE now omits any mention of a scarf in descriptions has meaning ....ad infinitum

 

[sunshineray]

LE says Libby is a hero because she took video of him just before what they "believe to be criminal behavior about to occur." And at that time the girls seemed to be discussing an alternate route to avoid him.

Fast forward to the "down the hill" audio, which LE has said was taken "during criminal activities" and according to one news report, Libby hit record after he approached them near the bridge. (Please don't make me go looking for the link again.)

This has been discussed repeatedly, I know, but what nags me is what happened to make Libby turn off the video, and at a later time turn on the recorder? (This is my interpretation of what must have happened based on LE's wording) We don't know how much time passed between. Was is seconds? A minute? Ten minutes?

If he approached them immediately at the end of the bridge, why didn't Libby just leave her video going? This is partly why I wonder if there was a point between the bridge video and the "down the hill" audio, where the girls didn't feel threatened. This is also where I question a separation between BG and girls, whether that be via recrossing the bridge, or the girls choosing the creek (maybe even planning on coming out on the road by the cemetery to catch Libby's dad on his way there?). If they felt they'd shaken BG, no more need to video, or call for help, but then bam, there he is right by them in the woods. Hit record.

I always thought the audio was from the video Libby started and didn't stop, just put her phone in her pocket probably. It could be from a separate time. Do we know what kind of phone Libby had? I know I'd have to look at my to start a recording (if it was in mine pocket especially) but then I guess it depends on how you have the little icons set up.

 

[Fizzle]

LE says Libby is a hero because she took video of him just before what they "believe to be criminal behavior about to occur." And at that time the girls seemed to be discussing an alternate route to avoid him.

Fast forward to the "down the hill" audio, which LE has said was taken "during criminal activities" and according to one news report, Libby hit record after he approached them near the bridge. (Link:ISP: More audio recovered from slain Delphi teen's phone )

This has been discussed repeatedly, I know, but what nags me is what happened to make Libby turn off the video, and at a later time turn on the recorder? (This is my interpretation of what must have happened based on LE's wording) We don't know how much time passed between. Was is seconds? A minute? Ten minutes?

If he approached them immediately at the end of the bridge, why didn't Libby just leave her video going? This is partly why I wonder if there was a point between the bridge video and the "down the hill" audio, where the girls didn't feel threatened. This is also where I question a separation between BG and girls, whether that be via recrossing the bridge, or the girls choosing the creek (maybe even planning on coming out on the road by the cemetery to catch Libby's dad on his way there?). If they felt they'd shaken BG, no more need to video, or call for help, but then bam, there he is right by them in the woods. Hit record.

From that link, I also found this interesting:
"“It does not appear to be anything more than some discussion between the girls. We have only released a portion of it. There are some others we think could help us but again protecting the integrity of the investigation is key so we cannot release everything because there are certain people that know the details and if we release it all then we get into false confessions,” said Sgt. Holeman."

First sentence he's saying the audio is discussion between the girls. But then he says at the end that there are details in the audio that could lead to false confessions, which makes me think that the audio contains more than a discussion between the 2 girls?

 

[sunshineray]

From that link, I also found this interesting:
"“It does not appear to be anything more than some discussion between the girls. We have only released a portion of it. There are some others we think could help us but again protecting the integrity of the investigation is key so we cannot release everything because there are certain people that know the details and if we release it all then we get into false confessions,” said Sgt. Holeman."

First sentence he's saying the audio is discussion between the girls. But then he says at the end that there are details in the audio that could lead to false confessions, which makes me think that the audio contains more than a discussion between the 2 girls?

I would say there's definitely more of BG's voice on Libby's recording. JMO

 

[TL4S]

From that link, I also found this interesting:
"“It does not appear to be anything more than some discussion between the girls. We have only released a portion of it. There are some others we think could help us but again protecting the integrity of the investigation is key so we cannot release everything because there are certain people that know the details and if we release it all then we get into false confessions,” said Sgt. Holeman."

First sentence he's saying the audio is discussion between the girls. But then he says at the end that there are details in the audio that could lead to false confessions, which makes me think that the audio contains more than a discussion between the 2 girls?

Yes, and this is why I think there is more than one audio/video. Even earlier on the trail they could have been recording themselves. To me, the most important statement is that she hit record "after he approached them near the bridge."

That's the audio during the crime, and a different audio, IMO, than ones where the girls are discussing things.

 

[gitana1]

........and Welcome back around to where I started....( there now follows 4 pages of to and fro with Tresir, sometime curt, sometimes humourous, sometimes oblique. Then gitana, you post a comment about your own post , suspecting yourself of thinking a scarf will be the key, whilst asking yourself if the fact LE now omits any mention of a scarf in descriptions has meaning ....ad infinitum

Yeah I never posted a comment "suspecting [myself] of thinking a scarf will be the key." I do not think it is a relevant topic of discussion and never did. I don't think a discussion here as to what he was wearing is a key to anything. I was simply wondering why the debate was so important and asked if anyone actually thought that websleuthers identifying what he was wearing would help solve the case.

But I'm aware that what I think is relevant is not relevant to the progression of the thread! So, rock on.

 

[JnRyan]

Thinking about witnesses the afternoon of 13 February. The family (Mike Patty?) didn't notify LE till sometime between 5:00 and 5:30 PM. LE shows up sometime between 5:30 and 6:00 PM, maybe later. Any witnesses that left the trail before then would likely only be known to LE if such person or persons voluntarily came forward. So we have a section of time between 1 PM and 3 PM when potential witnesses would be on the trail and none of the family members or LE would be aware of them. Then it is up to family members to remember potential witnesses until LE shows up. Sunset was approximately 6:20 that day so most everyone is leaving or left by the time LE first arrives. To add to this, LE doesn't necessarily suspect criminal activity? Just 2 missing girls. In that case, how focused are they in identifying persons as killers or witnesses of the killer(s) on the trails?

I'm wondering how comprehensive a list LE really has with all these facts. Any male out on the trail that afternoon is not just a potential witness, but a potential suspect as well. Anyone, male or female who is a habitual offender or has outstanding warrants against them is going to be less likely to walk into the sheriff's office. The voluntary witnesses are, of course, a source of who else was on the trail. If they knew those individuals. My knee jerk reaction is to assume the vehicle parked at the CPS building is that of the killer. It could be no one was seen around the vehicle - it was simply there around noon-1:00 and gone sometime before LE showed up. Just simply unaccounted for and thus an unaccounted for witness. Or witnesses. In this case the occupant or occupants might even be females.

I would hope any such unaccounted for witnesses have at least tried to make an anonymous tip.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

So you think all the witnesses agree he has reddish brown hair even though they can't agree on age? What do you think it is that BG possibly left behind?

I have no idea what the witnesses agreed on back then. Just saying that it was at that point, when the first sketch was released, that LE started talking about reddish-brown hair. All of that, in my opinion, may be moot now, since LE has a new sketch now and distanced themselves from the first one.
As far as age, the first sketch witnesses all pretty much had him as older. It wasn’t until the April PC and the new sketch that he was suddenly described as much much younger.
As far as something left behind it must be pretty generic or I think they would have caught him by now. I doubt it’s an article of clothing of any kind. If it was I think LE would have released a picture of it very early on in hopes someone would recognize it.