Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #117

[JudgeJudi]

Yes - the “thing” that the person has left belongs to one person, the DNA, to someone else. It is as if the “clues” don’t match.

And when they would not match? It most of them were left on purpose.

... or there were relatives underway and LE found DNA, matching 50% in full, but 50% of the same sources didn't match (heard of it in a TV crime documentary recently). Further "twist" would be the fact, they found only one person on the video/audio, but two similar DNA evidence. IMO

I deleted my post because I just realised the interview was done in March 2018, so DNA results would have been known. So you both may well be right. It's certainly possible.

 

[taximama24]

Bringing this here from the media thread post 789 courtesy @bradfordsleuth.
(In case this has been buried in the thread I am bumping it up.)
You can fast forward to the three minute 20 second mark mark to bypass the commentary and listen. They found something (undisclosed) on the bridge the day that ISP went back to the crime scene area.
February 23, 2017
(Apologies but the video didn't come over - please go to media thread page 40 post 789 to view the video. Still having reply box problems)
The same day as this article was printed.....
DNA evidence is top priority in Delphi murder investigation

My guess is they saw what appears to be BG turning his head quickly to spit in the video clip, and they went back to the bridge and swabbed that plank for DNA. If it didn't rain in those 10 days one would assume with great technology that would still be a viable sample.

 

[Charlot123]

Too many innuendos. When LE speak they dont say much if you get my drift. A whole new twist? Why dont you come out and say what you're referring to? I get it might be jeopardizing the case but what's the point of all this jibber when we're going on almost 3 years in 3 months?

I'm always left more confused when LE speak. I can't tell what's a metaphor or analogy or anything.

I don’t understand much at all, but maybe the LE hope to solve the case, and are just afraid to provide too much info, in view of the process?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

My guess is they saw what appears to be BG turning his head quickly to spit in the video clip, and they went back to the bridge and swabbed that plank for DNA. If it didn't rain in those 10 days one would assume with great technology that would still be a viable sample.

THAT would be an impressive measure, if LE had gotten evidence re the spitting!! Some evidence from on top of the bridge they have indeed, but we don't know, what exactly it might be.

 

[JudgeJudi]

The twist thing is making my head hurt. Nothing but nothing is straight forward in this case.

I don't believe the case is cold but we're heading towards the third anniversary in the not too distant future. When they cease getting credible tips, I believe it will become classified "suspended pending new information".

What I want to hear soon is



and see all the officers standing on the podium wearing this for the presser

 

[Deleted member 102539]

If there are two ears (flaps covering ears), it is also possible
Something like it, with two “ears”, only the front is more like a “bill” and the ears are shorter.

it is strange, I see a combo of a tyrolen hat, with a short bill and very characteristic center, plus “ears” on the sides. Of course if a person is a hunter, and has access to pelts, one can custom-make any hat, only it is an unusual fashion.

What else do people see?

To walk a high bridge, dressed as an average middle aged man in Indiana, it would be an somehow idiotic idea, to wear a Tyrolean hat of all hats, I think. Way too flashy, in my eyes. An unwanted recognition sign.
Possibly plus a white scarf, as some see it??

 

[Charlot123]

To walk a high bridge, dressed as an average middle aged man in Indiana, it would be an somehow idiotic idea, to wear a Tyrolean hat of all hats, I think. Way too flashy, in my eyes. An unwanted recognition sign.
Possibly plus a white scarf, as some see it??

I am using the term “Tyrolean” as I see some indentation in the midst of it, and I saw them most often in such hats. I don’t know what other term to use. However, I also see some ear flaps, and I can’t unsee them. And I don’t see the hair, maybe a lock from under the hat, but not a lot, no Bieber cut. Nor a young face, either. I can only rely on what I see, and a white scarf is possible (why not?).

Now, of course, it all depends on what is commonplace in the area. An Indiana hunter hat would be the easiest explanation, of course, only I never saw them before.

What I view as “an indentation” might be a triangular center part, if such fashions exist.

I think he did not plan on being seen or recognized, much less videotaped. I bet the hat and the coat he got rid of pretty soon.

 

[155etta]

I stumbled upon this article today that I hadn't seen before. It left me with two thoughts. 1. All the talk of the family leaving before the April PC was not true, the Patty's were there as was Libby's mom. 2. The pic of Libby's mom, does that look like shock from the turn in the investigation on her face, or shock from recognition?
Outline - Read & annotate without distractions

Nice pictures of attendees. I hadn't seen these before.

 

[margarita25]

Psychopaths often put themselves in risky situations. For some offenders, the possibility of getting caught is part of the thrill. Some of them just don't seem to fear getting caught. They take it for granted that they're smarter than LE.
-
In my area, back in the 80s, there was a guy named Ronald Bailey who abducted, sexually assaulted, and murdered two teenage boys (separately). At one point Bailey was carrying around one of the boys, who was still alive, in a duffel bag. He even stopped to talk to a couple of people while he had the boy in the duffel bag. I think he might have asked them for directions to the spot where he later sodomized and strangled the boy. BG's nonchalance in the video reminds me of Bailey (who was in his mid twenties and had a long history of sexually assaulting younger boys).


I don't know whether he knew school would be out, but wouldn't high school have been just about done for the day anyway? The bridge area was probably a popular after-school hang-out spot.

Omg I could’ve gone my whole life without reading this post.

 

[kc1023]

I think given the way of life today it's harder to get away with crime and especially violence like murder. Its one of those unfortunate situations where the guy is so damn lucky he wasnt wearing something else that day and the video wasnt clearer.

I'm sure the situation wasnt as severe as the ending turned out to be. Meaning they never thought in a million years it would come to what it did. Being weird and strange is one thing but getting murdered there was something that defied logic. Even as a grown adult I wouldn't picture somebody taking my life there during the day. It wouldn't cross my mind really. Anybody can be around, anybody can show up. I would bet they were in a state of shock like did this fool really just pull a weapon on us here?

BBM
No offense Brad, and someone probably has already said something similar but respectfully just in case no one has mentioned this - life is a different experience for females than it is for males. I think most women and girls do have their personal safety in the back of their mind most of the time. It is likely what triggered Libby to film him in the first place. They did perhaps think there was safety in numbers and that was not the case sadly. I think being frightened by an odd man out in a secluded woods doesn't defy logic at all for women. JMO

 

[margarita25]

One could surmise if the killer had weapons and or other implements on his person that were used in this murder then it would, IMO, be logical to assume he arrived there with intent, planning to murder that day, motive unknown.

Exactly, moo.

 

[Justice101]

I am shocked as to the amount of comments from people saying he must know the area/bridge to have his hands in his pocket whilst crossing, now I'm sorry but that is nothing special there!!! Anyone can do this, I do it on a regular, we have a similar bridge here in England with parts missing and my first attempt I crossed no problem hands in pocket.

Completely agree. I've walked railroad tracks (the spacing between ties is identical across the country). Granted, it's an awkward gate length for someone like me 6'-1"... too small for short steps and too long to skip every other one. To me, this completely explains the zigzag of BG on the bridge.

But it is not that hard. Even with splintered timbers.. they are mostly 9" wide and 7" tall and 19 inches apart.

I am afraid of heights and 59 years old... but I could easily walk across that bridge. Just like BG did and the girls did.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Another thing that's kept me up at night is why a car was parked in the abandoned building lot. Why would anyone want to park there? I would have thought people who wanted to hang out near the bridge would have parked elsewhere, e.g. at the drop-off point at the trailhead. We don't know how long the car was parked there only that it was between noon and 5:00.

* Where did the driver go?
* Why hasn't he come forward?
* If he was visiting someone, why didn't that person come forward?

And why did LE mention the car once and then drop the subject? I can only conclude that it was the getaway car which prompted LE to say that BG was able to get around quickly. How could they possibly know that. The girls were dropped off at 1:30 and DG arrived to pick them up at 3:14 (phone records support these times). That gives BG more than 1.5 hrs to do his dirty deeds and leave. Is this what LE meant by "get around quickly" and depart before being seen. It sounds like ample time to me.

It's just gone 3am here so I'll sign off and leave y'all to it.

 

[Justice101]

Phone interview with Sheriff Tobe Leazenby

“This one’s just – it’s got a whole new, it’s got a whole twist to it that even I as a 30-year veteran have never seen”.

I originally thought it was the fact that they have video and audio of a suspect. However, TL would have known when he did this interview that the evidence was from an iPhone which obviously wasn’t around 30 years ago. Ideas anyone?

@ 9:00
DELPHI DOUBLE MURDER UPDATE INTERVIEW WITH SHERIFF TOBE LEAZENBY - 9tube.tv

Could the whole new twist be something as simple as: He gagged them and simply tied them up to a tree possibly with no clothing....and they died of hypothermia overnight?

 

[SeattleStew]

hmmmm, back to a wee bit of head...possible hat, analysis.

I see it, if it is a hat, to be pointy at the front, with the black spot being the nose, rising to the rear in a triangular fashion, maybe even making out an eye on the right, and then the tail coming off the right rear down to his shoulder. Maybe a fox?

Crazy stuff, but if it WAS a specialized hat of some sort, that would be a potential identifier.

View attachment 217460

carry on

What do you think about this one?

 

[margarita25]

Dbm

 

[Falling Down]

Another thing that's kept me up at night is why a car was parked in the abandoned building lot. Why would anyone want to park there? I would have thought people who wanted to hang out near the bridge would have parked elsewhere, e.g. at the drop-off point at the trailhead. We don't know how long the car was parked there only that it was between noon and 5:00.

* Where did the driver go?
* Why hasn't he come forward?
* If he was visiting someone, why didn't that person come forward?

And why did LE mention the car once and then drop the subject? I can only conclude that it was the getaway car which prompted LE to say that BG was able to get around quickly. How could they possibly know that. The girls were dropped off at 1:30 and DG arrived to pick them up at 3:14 (phone records support these times). That gives BG more than 1.5 hrs to do his dirty deeds and leave. Is this what LE meant by "get around quickly" and depart before being seen. It sounds like ample time to me.

It's just gone 3am here so I'll sign off and leave y'all to it.

I think parking by the old CPS building (torn down in '18), make sense. Couldn't be seen from IN 25, easy access, and people driving by wouldn't notice a nondescript vehicle sitting there. I'd imagine LE have vague descriptions of the vehicle.

Parking in the tiny parking area off 300 which fit maybe 3 vehicles would have made it more noticeable to others who parked there and used the trails.

Parking on the other side of 25, where there's a public parking area, albeit obscured if you're driving along on 25, I think would have done the same as the other parking area. Others parking there would have remembered things about the vehicle.

People driving by the CPS building, or walking from the other side of 25 either from town or the other parking lot, on the trail, would have been less likely to remember details about a nondescript vehicle parked along 300.

I'd venture to guess that between 11AM and 3:30PM that day the number of cars that drove by the CPS building on 300 was in the dozens. When I drove 300 in '17 it was desolate, a really nice area that people probably use 300 for as a shortcut, mostly.

I'm sure BG had this all figured out, he needed a low-traffic area to carry out his fantasy.

JMO

 

[JnRyan]

Interesting idea. If he didn't touch them that much, then that would almost rule out SA. Truth is, I don't recall proof of how much DNA they have, or whether the scene was contaminated, or staged.

Regarding DNA, Sgt Kim Riley in the early part of the investigation stated in an interview that LE was not going to confirm DNA. Later (CrimeCon?), ISP lead investigator, 1st Sgt Holeman, said they had DNA - but stopped short of saying they have the killer's DNA. In a later interview, 1st Sgt Holeman, answers the question by saying almost every crime scene yields DNA and 'touch DNA' is a powerful tool - again stopping short of saying they have the killer's DNA.
For the longest time I kept wondering why LE was being so coy with the question, 'Do you have the killer's DNA?'. Then it dawned on me. They have DNA, but just aren't sure if it belongs to the killer.

 

[Falling Down]

Regarding DNA, Sgt Kim Riley in the early part of the investigation stated in an interview that LE was not going to confirm DNA. Later (CrimeCon?), ISP lead investigator, 1st Sgt Holeman, said they had DNA - but stopped short of saying they have the killer's DNA. In a later interview, 1st Sgt Holeman, answers the question by saying almost every crime scene yields DNA and 'touch DNA' is a powerful tool - again stopping short of saying they have the killer's DNA.
For the longest time I kept wondering why LE was being so coy with the question, 'Do you have the killer's DNA?'. Then it dawned on me. They have DNA, but just aren't sure if it belongs to the killer.

Great explanation. I agree, sure they have DNA, but do they have the killer's DNA?

My guess is they do not have the killer's DNA, we would know by now. I think the killer may have done certain things to destroy DNA after the murders.

JMO

 

[margarita25]

Regarding DNA, Sgt Kim Riley in the early part of the investigation stated in an interview that LE was not going to confirm DNA. Later (CrimeCon?), ISP lead investigator, 1st Sgt Holeman, said they had DNA - but stopped short of saying they have the killer's DNA. In a later interview, 1st Sgt Holeman, answers the question by saying almost every crime scene yields DNA and 'touch DNA' is a powerful tool - again stopping short of saying they have the killer's DNA.
For the longest time I kept wondering why LE was being so coy with the question, 'Do you have the killer's DNA?'. Then it dawned on me. They have DNA, but just aren't sure if it belongs to the killer.

This is what I wanted to mention yesterday but ran out of time on the post.

I’m not sure if this is relevant here at all, but Cheryl’s step sister, @mocity, said in Cheryl’s and Andy’s thread that HPD said they wouldn’t pursue Parabon until all other leads had been exhausted . The sad and crazy thing about this is that they said this with their case being cold for 28 years!! They said they’re still looking at other cold cases! In 2017, the detective on their case said they were looking at pursuing this, but it’s been over 2 years and nothing! Their families have been getting the run around!!

(ETA: O/T, I’ve got a very important announcement for anyone who needs a smile this morning:
Dog befriends baby giraffe after abandoned in South Africa )