Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #122

[Alphafuzz]

Police: Delphi murder victims spoke of man behind them in audio played for family
DELPHI, Ind. (WTHR) - State police say more audio from Libby German's cell phone was played for the victims' families, including a mention of a man they noticed behind them.

Police say the girls mostly talk about "stuff girls talk about" in the recording, but they also mention the man. The only audio that has been released to the public from the phone is that of a man's voice ordering German and her friend, Abby Williams, "down the hill."

While this doesn’t mention “creepy guy” I thought I’d post this here.

I've never seen confirmation that ISP or any other LE involved revealed that. Normally it will attribute a comment to a specific LE official. If I don't see that it's not verifiable and therefore only a rumor.

 

[insearchoflight]

IMO I would go with sketch one, I was looking at everything about that BG everything. I saw the video of him just a couple min ago and it does look like he is favouring one leg over the other as opposed to watching step but it could also be he is trying to make sure nothing falls out too. Libby took a video for a reason I trust Libby.

“But on Monday, officials said the new image came about after some bit of new information that had been "continuously reviewed and examined." Authorities said the image "more accurately" depicted the face of the suspect from video recorded on German's cell phone while she and Abigail were on the High Bridge.”

LE says sketch 2 more accurate
'New' Delphi suspect sketch was drawn days after murders of 2 Indiana girls, artist says

 

[Minnesotaloon]

LE have made various statements including confirming the sketches are of two different men, or the suspect might not look exactly like either sketch. JMO what that’s suggesting is they don’t want anyone to get too hung up on the likeness to a sketch - now three years old to boot.

It’s important to note that sketches are not photographs - a sketch is only as similar as the accuracy of a witness’s memory.

Another thing is very important to consider - the murders of Abby and Libby were not witnessed by anyone. Nobody saw anything that warranted reporting a situation to LE while the girls were only considered missing as no foul play was suspected in their disappearance...until their bodies were found.

So hypothetically to explain the two different sketches, I can see a scenario happening such as this - during the investigation, officers attempt to piece together who was where at any given time. One or more witnesses saw somebody, somewhere who LE decided given time/location, etc must have been an actual sighting of the suspect, so sketch #1 was created and released.

Then later, for whatever reason LE began to doubt it was the suspect connected to that particular sighting. Maybe they located the sighted person, determined the timeline didn’t fit, or began to doubt the witness’s credibility - they never told us the reason, only that the investigation was “changing directions”.

So they looked back into the files and determined another witness had made a different observation of somebody, somewhere and determined through their investigation this indeed was the suspect. So the different sketch was released, once again only as similar as the accuracy of the witness’s memory.

This is often how investigations go, POIs rise and fall to and from #1 suspect during the course of an active investigation. But usually LE doesn’t release a sketch adamantly declaring “this is our suspect” and then retract it later, then releasing a different sketch. I’m not sure the reason for that, hopefully we’ll learn the answer some day when the guilty perpetrator is arrested and tried.

JMO

Right but does anyone think or have a thought that maybe there was two people involved. MOO, from what I remember from the latest LE briefing I saw they kept both sketches out side by side. You’d think if they cleared someone they wouldn’t be putting out there sketch anymore. Also, I am still wondering how he managed to maintain control of both girls by himself. Maybe I am overthinking it but it does bother me still. Whatever the case I hope these girls get the justice they deserve and the families get closure, hopefully soon.

 

[California Sunset]

I've been here before, but not lately, and I'm sorry I haven't been through all the information and posts so many of you have worked so hard on. But, I was somewhere else and something hit me, that what I had just said could apply here as well.
Most children are sexually assaulted by someone they know. (IMO many females are raped/murdered by someone they know) even if it's only a neighbor, member of the family of a friend/classmate, someone from school, a coach, etc. This could very well be the case here. Could the killer possibly be the father of someone they know? A friend of a parent? Miranda Gaddis and Ashley Pond were the victims of a classmate's father. Gina DeJesus is a victim of Ariel Castro, the father of a friend.
If Libby and Abby called someone 'creepy guy', how do we know they hadn't considered him that prior to that day? If you've already brought this out, my apologies.
When I was their age, a lot sailed right over my head, but not everything. There were people I avoided, I didn't trust. People that scared me. I'd have turned around and gone somewhere else before I passed them on the sidewalk. (Which probably put me in more danger on occasion.) And in the moment of something happening, I'd have been more likely to turn to a friend and say 'He gives me the creeps.' Or I don't trust him, or I'm glad I'm not alone, or something else. Even a cop.
These girls (this is a small town, correct?) know the people that live and work in their small town, and some of whom lived nearby. Who didn't they trust? Who made them feel uncomfortable? Who tried to ingratiate themselves with either girl? I used to tell my mother a lot. That's what you need to find. It may give you a lead. If Abby didn't tell her mom, maybe she told Libby, and Libby confided in someone OR if Libby didn't tell her mom, a sister, maybe she told Abby and Abby told someone else. Who did they trust, perhaps too much? At that time in my life, at their ages, I think I felt safe with the dads of my friends. Not necessarily the brothers of friends, especially the older ones. Or cousins, older boys in the neighborhood, guys at the grocery store. People that stared at me.

 

[insearchoflight]

I just saw the video where the LE states that both are relevant and that the POI is probably in between the 2 sketches. What are your thoughts on sketch 2?

I find LE explanation extremely confusing. First sketch 1 is BG, then nope. Sketch 2 is BG. Disregard sketch 1. But he may look like both sketches

 

[insearchoflight]

Right but does anyone think or have a thought that maybe there was two people involved. MOO, from what I remember from the latest LE briefing I saw they kept both sketches out side by side. You’d think if they cleared someone they wouldn’t be putting out there sketch anymore. Also, I am still wondering how he managed to maintain control of both girls by himself. Maybe I am overthinking it but it does bother me still. Whatever the case I hope these girls get the justice they deserve and the families get closure, hopefully soon.

LE has stated that BG killed the girls and is one person responsible.

Transcript from press conference: Please keep in mind the person talking is one person and is the person on the bridge with the girls. This is NOT two different people speaking- please listen to it very, very carefully. We are also releasing video recovered from Libby’s phone. This video has never before been previously released. The video shows the suspect walking on the bridge. When you see the video, watch the person’s mannerisms as they walk. Watch the mannerisms as he walks. Do you recognize the mannerisms as being someone that you might know? Remember, he is walking on the former railroad bridge. Because of the deteriorated condition of the bridge, the suspect is not walking naturally due to the spacing between the ties. During the course of this investigation we have concluded the first sketch released will become secondary, as of today. The result of the new information and intelligence over time leads us to believe the sketch, which you will see shortly, IS the person responsible for the murders of these two little girls. We also believe this person is from Delphi- currently, or has previously lived here, visits Delphi on a regular basis, or works here. We believe this person is currently between the age range of 18 and 40, but might appear younger than his true age. [Speaking] Directly to the Killer, who may be in this room: We believe you were hiding in plain sight. For more than 2 years, you never thought we would shift gears to a different investigative strategy...

DELPHI PRESS CONFERENCE TRANSCRIPT (2019) - CrimeLights

 

[Jax49]

I find LE explanation extremely confusing. First sketch 1 is BG, then nope. Sketch 2 is BG. Disregard sketch 1. But he may look like both sketches

Exactly. LE can't even agree on BG's appearance.

 

[HOPE770145]

Here’s why I don’t like the theory that the girls knew this man.

If they knew him, most likely other people in their lives knew him too. Then this wouldn’t be a mystery.

This guy was a stranger. Moo

LE have made various statements including confirming the sketches are of two different men, or the suspect might not look exactly like either sketch. JMO what that’s suggesting is they don’t want anyone to get too hung up on the likeness to a sketch - now three years old to boot.

It’s important to note that sketches are not photographs - a sketch is only as similar as the accuracy of a witness’s memory.

Another thing is very important to consider - the murders of Abby and Libby were not witnessed by anyone. Nobody saw anything that warranted reporting a situation to LE while the girls were only considered missing as no foul play was suspected in their disappearance...until their bodies were found.

So hypothetically to explain the two different sketches, I can see a scenario happening such as this - during the investigation, officers attempt to piece together who was where at any given time. One or more witnesses saw somebody, somewhere who LE decided given time/location, etc must have been an actual sighting of the suspect, so sketch #1 was created and released.

Then later, for whatever reason LE began to doubt it was the suspect connected to that particular sighting. Maybe they located the sighted person, determined the timeline didn’t fit, or began to doubt the witness’s credibility - they never told us the reason, only that the investigation was “changing directions”.

So they looked back into the files and determined another witness had made a different observation of somebody, somewhere and determined through their investigation this indeed was the suspect. So the different sketch was released, once again only as similar as the accuracy of the witness’s memory.

This is often how investigations go, POIs rise and fall to and from #1 suspect during the course of an active investigation. But usually LE doesn’t release a sketch adamantly declaring “this is our suspect” and then retract it later, then releasing a different sketch. I’m not sure the reason for that, hopefully we’ll learn the answer some day when the guilty perpetrator is arrested and tried.

JMO

I believe this is inside edition where the LE officer states the POI looks in between both sketches as opposed to saying the first one is null and void.

 

[California Sunset]

If Libby or Abby didn't say something to someone, maybe another girl did. Someone should listen to what she has to say. They aren't the only two that thought the guy was creepy.

 

[Minnesotaloon]

LE has stated that BG killed the girls and is one person responsible.

Transcript from press conference: Please keep in mind the person talking is one person and is the person on the bridge with the girls. This is NOT two different people speaking- please listen to it very, very carefully. We are also releasing video recovered from Libby’s phone. This video has never before been previously released. The video shows the suspect walking on the bridge. When you see the video, watch the person’s mannerisms as they walk. Watch the mannerisms as he walks. Do you recognize the mannerisms as being someone that you might know? Remember, he is walking on the former railroad bridge. Because of the deteriorated condition of the bridge, the suspect is not walking naturally due to the spacing between the ties. During the course of this investigation we have concluded the first sketch released will become secondary, as of today. The result of the new information and intelligence over time leads us to believe the sketch, which you will see shortly, IS the person responsible for the murders of these two little girls. We also believe this person is from Delphi- currently, or has previously lived here, visits Delphi on a regular basis, or works here. We believe this person is currently between the age range of 18 and 40, but might appear younger than his true age. [Speaking] Directly to the Killer, who may be in this room: We believe you were hiding in plain sight. For more than 2 years, you never thought we would shift gears to a different investigative strategy...

DELPHI PRESS CONFERENCE TRANSCRIPT (2019) - CrimeLights

Thank you for clearing that up for me, with all the cases and press briefings and podcasts I am watching sometime things get jumbled in my head or I forget about certain bits of information that shoot down what MOO are at the time! Can someone clear up who BG is for me? I’ve seen it used but I don’t know what it stands for.

 

[Jax49]

Thank you for clearing that up for me, with all the cases and press briefings and podcasts I am watching sometime things get jumbled in my head or I forget about certain bits of information that shoot down what MOO are at the time! Can someone clear up who BG is for me? I’ve seen it used but I don’t know what it stands for.

BG stands for Bridge Guy.

 

[SAMS]

I've never seen confirmation that ISP or any other LE involved revealed that. Normally it will attribute a comment to a specific LE official. If I don't see that it's not verifiable and therefore only a rumor.

So if they had mentioned a LE individual you would believe it?

 

[Trebor5591]

Now we have the sheriff stating there is DNA and possibly a fingerprint.

What? I've been following the case and I recall LE is silent about DNA and fingerprints. Where did you get this information, please? Thank you

 

[MistyWaters]

Right but does anyone think or have a thought that maybe there was two people involved. MOO, from what I remember from the latest LE briefing I saw they kept both sketches out side by side. You’d think if they cleared someone they wouldn’t be putting out there sketch anymore. Also, I am still wondering how he managed to maintain control of both girls by himself. Maybe I am overthinking it but it does bother me still. Whatever the case I hope these girls get the justice they deserve and the families get closure, hopefully soon.

I recall LE not conclusively ruling out more than one person being involved, in fact on a couple of Q&As iirc they suggested it was a possibility. But I just have to doubt LE would share sketches of two suspects and then announce sketch #1 was no longer a suspect, to disregard it.

I agree with you, one man stalking and killing two girls in their mid-teens is extremely bold and high risk. He couldn’t have known they’d stick together rather than fleeing in two opposite directions. If this was a total stranger, he wouldn’t have known the two were such close friends or that they weren’t a part of a group who were following close behind, about to cross the bridge.

If it was a sole killer, I’d guess he was armed and tragically, if they fled across the river in terror, there were no trees or other obstructions to block his shots and they didn’t make it too much further on the other side. JMO

 

[SAMS]

yes I saw that earlier, they noticed a man behind them, but started filming when he got close and ordered them down the hill? these 2 girls seem strong minded, would they follow directions for a reason? maybe he talked to them before and told them there was something down the hill? what are your thoughts? MOO

Never thought of that. Maybe he saw and said something to them prior and mentioned something about the hill, then later they noticed him following and recorded him-perhaps calling him creepy amongst themselves, he gets close, pulls out a weapon, “down the hill”. I agree these girls were strong minded, he definitely scared them into submission.MOO IMO

 

[Trebor5591]

Sorry, the question was to JnRyan, but I immediately got scared for my eyesight. Here it is, “suggestive evidence of fingerprints”, R upper corner

The media is a joke sometimes. There cannot be "suggestive evidence" of a fingerprint. Either they have a fingerprint or they don't.

 

[max99]

am I the only one feeling this with the last few days and posts?

 

[MistyWaters]

LE has stated that BG killed the girls and is one person responsible.

Transcript from press conference: Please keep in mind the person talking is one person and is the person on the bridge with the girls. This is NOT two different people speaking- please listen to it very, very carefully. We are also releasing video recovered from Libby’s phone. This video has never before been previously released. The video shows the suspect walking on the bridge. When you see the video, watch the person’s mannerisms as they walk. Watch the mannerisms as he walks. Do you recognize the mannerisms as being someone that you might know? Remember, he is walking on the former railroad bridge. Because of the deteriorated condition of the bridge, the suspect is not walking naturally due to the spacing between the ties. During the course of this investigation we have concluded the first sketch released will become secondary, as of today. The result of the new information and intelligence over time leads us to believe the sketch, which you will see shortly, IS the person responsible for the murders of these two little girls. We also believe this person is from Delphi- currently, or has previously lived here, visits Delphi on a regular basis, or works here. We believe this person is currently between the age range of 18 and 40, but might appear younger than his true age. [Speaking] Directly to the Killer, who may be in this room: We believe you were hiding in plain sight. For more than 2 years, you never thought we would shift gears to a different investigative strategy...

DELPHI PRESS CONFERENCE TRANSCRIPT (2019) - CrimeLights

There were rumours floating around for quite awhile that the video and the voice might be of two different people and so I think it was prudent for Carter put that to rest. LE has the cellphone, the video and audio and are in a position to make that determination.

But LE has never adamantly ruled out an accomplice that I can ever recall. Until this file is closed, the perp charged and convicted LE can’t have all the answers at this point in time. Therefore I suppose that means we don’t either, why we can only speculate.

 

[Charlot123]

The media is a joke sometimes. There cannot be "suggestive evidence" of a fingerprint. Either they have a fingerprint or they don't.

It is “a hint”, to attract attention. Kim Riley said, “every crime scene has some DNA”. And go guess, whose, the victims’, the perpetrator’s, some random people’s, or even animals’ one. But we get interested, right?

 

[Trebor5591]

I've just finished listening to the Down The Hill podcast and I felt it was very well done. Part 8 with the interviews and presser clips really started to sway me into LE's line of thinking that he IS local and they know who he is but they cannot solidly charge him yet. If so up until that presser with the new direction he must have been thinking he had fooled everyone. Now they watch and wait.

They do not know who the killer is. They would not "watch and wait" for 3 years for a major homicide of 2 teenage girls, believe me. If they knew who the killer was, he would be under continual surveillance. His phone and internet records would be gone over in detail. They would arrest him for something Friday evening, even if only a traffic violation, and hold him over the weekend, interviewing him with teams of detectives while he was sleep-deprived, to try to force a confession. Since this has not happened, they do not know who the killer is.