Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #136

[Boxer]

MOO early hints they had more audio and video were bluffs.

 

[fortius174]

Oddly contradictory to what David Bursten says (start at 7:50) in this podcast less than a month after the murders:

I feel like they haven't released more information about everything because they want the murderer to come forward.
But it's been 4 years, no one really is any closer to finding the killer. I think it's the time that they give some more information about the case.

 

[Tower]

MOO early hints they had more audio and video were bluffs.

I agree with you, although technically they had not released “Guys…” yet. So he said they have more audio and that was true. Just a very tiny amount. Imo

 

[Yemelyan]

I agree with you, although technically they had not released “Guys…” yet. So he said they have more audio and that was true. Just a very tiny amount. Imo

Agreed...it technically was the truth and he wanted to keep the killer guessing on what they had. IMO

 

[Boxer]

The idea of an old man suspect probably did them in early.

 

[Charlot123]

I know exactly what you mean. My voice to my ear sounds nothing like my voice on the answering machine. It could very well be the reason nobody has been identified by the audio Libby recorded.

I stillxwonder if Sheriff Leazenby has ever figured out where he's heard that voice before. He seemed very sure he had.

here is the strange thing.

“hi guys” to me sounds like a ringing voice.

“down the hill” is hollow.

These two characteristics almost never change, ringing voices are not perceived as hollow, and vice versa.

This is something I shall never explain, and it makes me wonder why I hear two different characteristics on the recording.

Obvious thing - if the recording (4 words) is useless to us, maybe the relatives won’t recognize it, too?

What TL means I can’t even fathom. He sounded like he knew who killed the girls in the beginning, about it being a shock for the community, etc..,

 

[JnRyan]

here is the strange thing.

“hi guys” to me sounds like a ringing voice.

“down the hill” is hollow.

These two characteristics almost never change, ringing voices are not perceived as hollow, and vice versa.

This is something I shall never explain, and it makes me wonder why I hear two different characteristics on the recording.

Obvious thing - if the recording (4 words) is useless to us, maybe the relatives won’t recognize it, too?

What TL means I can’t even fathom. He sounded like he knew who killed the girls in the beginning, about it being a shock for the community, etc..,

I wonder if the investigators following up on tips and doing interviews made written notes or recorded the interview? If there are recorded interviews could Sheriff Leazenby be thinking back to recorded interview but can't place which one? A recorded phone tip?

I also wondered if LE could have tried voice analysis if they had recorded the interviews.
Voice analysis - Wikipedia

Of course, I don't know the legality of recorded interviews. That is, can the subject of the interview decline to be recorded and therefore there is no recording of the voice? Maybe "Guys...down the hill" is too short to render a comparison? Then there is the accuracy factor - i.e., they have the suspect on a recorded interview but the analysis could fail to identify or identify multiple "maybe's".

 

[somequestions]

I see ppl living close to delphi saying they have never heard of the crime till recently ...thats reality ...unless locals or tru crime community...ppl wouldnt kno about it

As time goes on, fewer people are going to remember hearing about the case or they will assume it has been solved. In the Lauren Spierer case, when 20/20 did a piece about it five years later and asked students at Indiana University whether they remembered it, some had not even heard about it or thought it was old news. At the time the Spierer case happened back in June 2011, it was a very high profile case. The tenth anniversary just happened in that case and it seems like the discussion has completely quieted down to almost nothing. In my opinion, this is why time matters in missing persons and murder cases.

Saying a sketch is not a photograph is a simplified way of trying to make the sketch appear so broad in characterization that when the case is solved it can appear that it triggered the memory from the right person who submitted the right tip. And then they can point to all the other sketches from others cases that do not look like a photograph of the suspect either. Good luck figuring out the right tip from the person who actually saw the murderer from all the people who think they have seen the murderer. Because that is what it comes down to.

In my opinion, unfortunately in the case of Abigail Williams and Liberty German it appears the person who murdered them was not seen or remembered well enough to help LE solve the case. The irony is the phone video. That is the one aspect of this case that gives hope that someday it will be solved. In my opinion, if this case is ever solved, it will be solely because of the phone video. The great irony of this case is that if a sketch is not a photograph, then in a case where they have a video, why did they use sketches?

I think the answer to the question is simple. Law enforcement has no idea what the face of the person who murdered Abigail Williams and Liberty German looks like. They may have told everyone at the press conference that the face from the second sketch represents the person responsible for the murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German. But that sketch could be from yet another person who thinks they saw the killer. And LE thinks their witness is right.

The reality could be that the killer is an unknown who got away. He only has to hope that no one can recognize him from the video.

 

[sunshineray]

I did find where the info about a gun came from, a Gray Hughes video, which we're allowed to link.

Anna heard Abby say, "Is that a gun? He's got a gun". Then LE letting Anna look at and listen to the video said to her after BG says, "Down the hill"...did you hear that? That noise was a gun cocking.

The whole explanation if things Anna saw and heard starts at around 48:00 in. The gun talk starts at around 51:00.

 

[urbancoyote]

I do not understand the fascination with wether or not the girls screamed or responded or said anything..and speculation over why we cant hear it..

of course they responded, does anyone believe they were silent and did this man's bidding?

for me it is extra information, superfluous and not relevant, will not change the outcome or tell us anything..and if it does reveal anything..they aren't going to tell us.

let's just assume they screamed , resisted etc, and were eventually subdued.

mOO

That's the whole point in why some of us are fascinated. If they screamed or shouted, why did no one hear it? If they didn't, why not? Could mean a second person involved.

 

[Ozoner]

That's the whole point in why some of us are fascinated. If they screamed or shouted, why did no one hear it? If they didn't, why not? Could mean a second person involved.

Most people don't scream; most people are frozen with fear. BG approached them in a stealthy manner; he didn't jump out of the bushes and chase them (which is the kind of attack that would be more likely to lead to screaming).

 

[TTF14]

I did find where the info about a gun came from, a Gray Hughes video, which we're allowed to link.

Anna heard Abby say, "Is that a gun? He's got a gun". Then LE letting Anna look at and listen to the video said to her after BG says, "Down the hill"...did you hear that? That noise was a gun cocking.

The whole explanation if things Anna saw and heard starts at around 48:00 in. The gun talk starts at around 51:00.

So he's reading from a text message he got from someone who is telling him what they heard from Anna? Am I understanding correctly that's where this information has come from?

 

[urbancoyote]

Most people don't scream; most people are frozen with fear. BG approached them in a stealthy manner; he didn't jump out of the bushes and chase them (which is the kind of attack that would be more likely to lead to screaming).

I'm not talking about when he approached them. Please read my original post. I am talking about when he murdered the first girl.

 

[OverTheRhine]

Q. Does this investigation need “new eyes”? What reason can you give to not change the investigative strategy?

A. New eyes frequently occur within the core of investigators. The ISP, FBI and we have consulted often with experts and other agencies to provided us with their evaluation of the investigation to this stage.

The ego narrative is ridiculous. They've clearly had no problem going to outside sources for help. Tobe admitted this. The FBI was there from day 1. The ISP, CCSO, FBI, GBI, and other out of state investigators have had a hand in this. Paul Holes was consulted and admitted they had a tough road a head of them. They literally changed an entire sketch 2 years after the murder. If that doesn't scream humility, I don't know what does. The anti LE rhetoric is tiring and distracting and this case has been nothing but a vehicle for people to grandstand on. Meanwhile, there are hundreds of youtubers disrupting the case with wild theories and accusations and countless others who don't have to face any consequences for their actions who seem to have an answer for everything until they have a different one. The same people telling LE how to investigate, or criticizing LE are the same people accusing a new person every week. The same people with a new theory every day. Because it's easy to voice your opinions, voice your accusations when you literally have zero accountability for the outcome and can just move on if you're wrong.

 

[sunshineray]

So he's reading from a text message he got from someone who is telling him what they heard from Anna? Am I understanding correctly that's where this information has come from?

That's what it seems doesn't it.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Q. Does this investigation need “new eyes”? What reason can you give to not change the investigative strategy?

A. New eyes frequently occur within the core of investigators. The ISP, FBI and we have consulted often with experts and other agencies to provided us with their evaluation of the investigation to this stage.

The ego narrative is ridiculous. They've clearly had no problem going to outside sources for help. Tobe admitted this. The FBI was there from day 1. The ISP, CCSO, FBI, GBI, and other out of state investigators have had a hand in this. Paul Holes was consulted and admitted they had a tough road a head of them. They literally changed an entire sketch 2 years after the murder. If that doesn't scream humility, I don't know what does. The anti LE rhetoric is tiring and distracting and this case has been nothing but a vehicle for people to grandstand on. Meanwhile, there are hundreds of youtubers disrupting the case with wild theories and accusations and countless others who don't have to face any consequences for their actions who seem to have an answer for everything until they have a different one. The same people telling LE how to investigate, or criticizing LE are the same people accusing a new person every week. The same people with a new theory every day. Because it's easy to voice your opinions, voice your accusations when you literally have zero accountability for the outcome and can just move on if you're wrong.

The most ridiculous narrative is the “LE knows who it is and is just crossing the t’s and dotting the i’s”. We’ve heard that for 4 years.
Let’s face it, we’re a diverse group and we all have our different opinions. The same things you accuse those critical of LE of being, you can also accuse those who are wide-eyed supporters of everything LE does in this case of being.

 

[JnRyan]

I seriously doubt that with all of the investigative agencies involved that there is any one suspect that they are circling for almost 4 years. One never knows, though. The case of missing person Teresa Lynn Butler in 2006 in Risco MO was a strange one. LE had a person ID'd from the beginning but he wasn't arrested until 2020. (Man sentenced to 10 years in connection to Teresa Butler cold case)

A new set of eyes? That really can't help but provide something to the case. But when this has been done in the past, we're probably looking at a case where, at the most 10-12 investigators worked on the case and there was probably 500-2000 tips. This case had at staff of over 100 in the first few weeks and between 10000 and 20000 tips in the first 6 months to a year. This 'new set of eyes' is probably not something that could be done by two full time investigators. If they did do this, it would almost have to be initially a small task force working at the same time the sheriff's office follows current leads and tips. I would imagine the majority of unsolved cases involve a situation where LE has little to go on. This case with its massive publicity and volume of tips, to me anyway, seems to be a case where LE is trying to drink from a fire hose.

 

[Trebor5591]

Meanwhile, there are hundreds of youtubers disrupting the case with wild theories and accusations and countless others who don't have to face any consequences for their actions who seem to have an answer for everything until they have a different one. The same people telling LE how to investigate, or criticizing LE are the same people accusing a new person every week. The same people with a new theory every day. Because it's easy to voice your opinions, voice your accusations when you literally have zero accountability for the outcome and can just move on if you're wrong.

Really I think you are overstating the impact of social media/youtube on the official investigation. I think the actual impact is not much--it's just noise. Of course I think there is likely a detective assigned to monitor social media--how would you like to have that job?
Curious, are you advocating consequences/accountability for people posting their theories? If so, what should those consequences be?

 

[sandy_80]

no one on SM today can face consequences unless its politics or somthin ..that doesn't just go for those who accuse innocent ppl online and drag them thru the mud.. but for the twitter mob and fb mob and the youtubers who commit all sorts of problematic things cause they can...
anyone can find themselves or someone related to them a suspect in a crime cause some crazy troll fancied so..
however this hasn't been affecting the case in any way..if anything it gives this local le something to complain about every few months cause they have nothing else..

 

[Snoop Sister]

I can’t believe there has been no new leads or info. I have been away from WS for awhile, and I am disappointed after quickly reading past posts that there is absolutely nothing new. It has been 4+ years!