IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #6

[In vino veritas]

Yes, and it's a pretty good indicator of how a jury will react. If SA has an opportunity for a plea deal, he should take it.

I would be very surprised if a plea deal is offered. While the investigation was ongoing, PR LE claimed they were looking at all possibilities.... even murder.

I believe there might be a kernel of doubt regarding SA’s motivation/ intent. That said, if evidence isn’t conclusive for a more serious charge, It would be better to go with the charge guaranteeing a conviction... hence negligent homicide.

I believe SA will be serving some time, as I think he should..... for the incredible negligence and all the subsequent lies and distortions.

 

[Chikkamma]

The reenactment reminds me of the OJ glove stunt. "If the glove doesn't fit you have to acquit."
OJ was able to position his hand and fingers so that the glove wouldn't fit.
The reenactor was able to position his body so that he couldn't lean farther.
JMO

Ha! I was thinking the same thing!

 

[justbreathe]

Not sure if this comment will be ok, but on the Yahoo comments at least a fair number of people are speculating about all the things we have - was he drinking, taking drugs, did he dislike her, was there life insurance.

 

[justbreathe]

There was a plea deal offered already, wasn’t there? Guilty plea with no jail time and minimal supervision, I believe?

I would be very surprised if a plea deal is offered. While the investigation was ongoing, PR LE claimed they were looking at all possibilities.... even murder.

I believe there might be a kernel of doubt regarding SA’s motivation/ intent. That said, if evidence isn’t conclusive for a more serious charge, It would be better to go with the charge guaranteeing a conviction... hence negligent homicide.

I believe SA will be serving some time, as I think he should..... for the incredible negligence and all the subsequent lies and distortions.

 

[weepingangel]

There was a plea deal offered already, wasn’t there? Guilty plea with no jail time and minimal supervision, I believe?

Yes Not in writing (I believe this story is from mid December )

“There's no plea deal in writing yet, according to the attorney representing the Indiana grandfather. But he tells CBS News the agreement would require Anello to plead guilty to negligent homicide in the death of Wiegand. In exchange, he would get no jail time and minimum probation and supervision.”
Grandfather offered plea deal in girl's cruise ship death as Puerto Rico TV show airs video

 

[IceIce9]

Breathalyzer are not accurate. If you have consumed nothing, get the blood draw.

There are many different brands and types of breathalyzer units. They range from cheap ones that people can buy to test their own breath alcohol, which might not or probably won’t be very accurate, to units that are approved by DOT.

The units we use are very accurate. They require calibration before testing a person. If the calibration is off, even a minuscule amount, the unit will not allow a test to be performed.

During our certification classes we demonstrate the reliability by comparing some volunteers who drink to a prediction graph. A 120 pound female who consumes a 12 oz beer, a 180 pound male who consumes 2 12 oz beers, etc. Then we test them at various intervals and compare the breathalyzer results with the prediction graph.

 

[CocoChanel]

MOD NOTE:

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CocoChanel
Moderator

 

[Ears]

Omg, that plea deal!
Please excuse me, but how can you take a baby, through them out if a window to death, be found guilty of murder and have no jail time?? Because insisting there wasn't a "no tossing babies out of the window" sign?!
I'm not a US citizen or resident, thus a lot of confusion with justice system.

 

[Forever Young]

Growing up, my next door neighbor was a police officer and he always said that no matter what, never submit to a breath or blood test. Wait for your lawyer. I think most lawyers also recommend not getting tested.

So on this one, I don't read anything into him refusing the test.

I have recently read that an inhaler for asthma will render a positive for alcohol reading. Just have to wonder if any of the arresting officers smelled alcohol, though.

 

[mickey2942]

Omg, that plea deal!
Please excuse me, but how can you take a baby, through them out if a window to death, be found guilty of murder and have no jail time?? Because insisting there wasn't a "no tossing babies out of the window" sign?!
I'm not a US citizen or resident, thus a lot of confusion with justice system.

Agreed. And we discussed previously, the option of SA taking an "Alford Plea", which means acknowledgement of prosecution has enough evidence to prove a conviction, but the defendant doesn't acknowledge guilt or confess to the allegations.

That makes my blood pressure cook!

 

[Montrealaise]

Yes Not in writing (I believe this story is from mid December )

“There's no plea deal in writing yet, according to the attorney representing the Indiana grandfather. But he tells CBS News the agreement would require Anello to plead guilty to negligent homicide in the death of Wiegand. In exchange, he would get no jail time and minimum probation and supervision.”
Grandfather offered plea deal in girl's cruise ship death as Puerto Rico TV show airs video

The plea deal isn't put in writing until both sides have accepted it. Until then, there are verbal negotiations only between the two lawyers. From my understanding, the prosecutor has made an offer of a plea deal, which SA has so far declined to accept.

 

[mickey2942]

I have recently read that an inhaler for asthma will render a positive for alcohol reading. Just have to wonder if any of the arresting officers smelled alcohol, though.

I have wondered about diabetes. SA has the weight, and looks like he could be diabetic. Low blood sugar levels can cause people to appear drunk, and have a smell of alcohol on their breathe.
Diabetic ketoacidosis - Wikipedia

This could cause confusion, blurred vision, a range of other problems. The fact that SA had been traveling that day, means that his usual routines were probably messed up, different meal schedule, probably more exercise than he is used to, running around airports.
Hypoglycemia - Wikipedia

INME, men this age, who are type 2 diabetic, are usually extremely noncompliant with accepting the changes a diagnosis means.

This is all speculation, we have no verification that SA is diabetic. Just looking at some potential reasons for his actions.

 

[In vino veritas]

The plea deal isn't put in writing until both sides have accepted it. Until, there are verbal negotiations only between the two lawyers.

At the time the initial plea deal was discussed, SA firmly stated he would not accept a plea..... he wanted to “ prove his innocence”.

Given his stance, I’m not sure if the deal still stands.... don’t know law. SA is due back in PR court on Jan 27. It will be very interesting to see if plea deal is re- visited.

 

[IM2CYNICAL]

We’ll be on the Ovation in Feb and IIRC it doesn’t have those windows or rails other wise I would be sending relevant photos again.

I’m only 5’4” and there was no problem for me to put my head outside the window to look around so then my arms would extend 2’ further out. It was totally safe for me as the design stops me from toppling over but to hold a child beyond there is plain criminal!

View attachment 226756
This pic was taken at 9am 16th December 2019 on the Voyager, it was a lifeguard opening the windows so obviously RC didn’t warn him not to open them.
He was max 5’11” (?)

Also I spoke with a wait staff who was on the Freedom when Chloe died and amazingly she wasn’t aware of any accident at the time.

Doesnt the fact that lifeguard in photo can open the window while walking by prove that you can touch the glass from behind the rail? He's obviously not carrying a ladder with him.

 

[IceIce9]

I have recently read that an inhaler for asthma will render a positive for alcohol reading. Just have to wonder if any of the arresting officers smelled alcohol, though.

Here are two references regarding inhalers.
There is no alcohol in albuterol inhalers, so using an inhaler should not give a positive result a breath alcoholtest. ... For example, Binaca mouthwash spray, which does contain a significant amount of alcohol, does not produce a positive result after five minutes.

Abstract
BACKGROUND: People and authorities are worried about interferences in breath alcohol measurements. The influence of different inhalers on breath alcohol tests is analysed in this paper.

PATIENTS AND METHOD: We included 60 patients treated with different inhalers. They underwent a breath alcohol test before treatment and 1, 2, 3, 5 and 10 min after it.

RESULTS: Every medication led to positive readings within the first minutes of its administration. However, all values reached zero at 10 min. Patients administered higher doses and those who did not use a spacer device were found to have higher reading values.

CONCLUSIONS: Asthma inhalers, including those without alcohol contents, lead to positive readings of breath alcohol measuring devices within the first minutes. However, these interferences are no longer detected at ten minutes.

 

[Chikkamma]

SA is 5' 11" according PR LE in the booking photo:
https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2019-10/28/23/asset/9094ede050f7/sub-buzz-1507-1572305228-1.jpg?downsize=700:*&output-quality=auto&output-format=auto
I don't think the 're-enactment' is accurate as I think the re-enactor is shorter, but if it's actually true given the La Comay video that Winkleman has previously acknowledged as accurate, showing that SA didn't even have his feet on the ground while doing this with Chloe is bad news for SA.

I don't understand how Winkleman has been able to get away with telling verifiable lies without being exposed by the media or sanctioned by any governing body thus far.

1. Winkleman literally showed an ALTERED video to select media in order to make it seem like SA only had Chloe up to the window for a second before she fell. Let me repeat. He ALTERED the CCTV footage to make it favorable to SA. He claimed the video was the "same format" as given to him by the defense.
-How to verify: Find out which exact video Winkleman was given. If the video was unaltered, it proves Winkleman was the one who altered it. How is this not gross misconduct or even criminal on his part?

2. I do not believe the "actor" used in the re-enactment is "almost identical in height and weight" to SA as Winkleman claims. If it is later revealed that the actor is 3 inches shorter than SA, will there be any repercussions for Winkleman? It seems like he can make whatever outrageous veritably false claims he wants without repercussion.
-How to verify: Measure the exact height of the actor.

3. Winkleman stating that it would be "impossible" for anyone of SA's height to lean over the window and breech the window pane.
-How to verify: Have someone of SA's height lean over the window and breech the window pane.

All of these claims of Winkleman can be easily proven to be lies, and they will be. So why is he doing this?

 

[Forever Young]

Plaintiff's Atty's Expert's Inspection of Ship?
snip>
And those critical measurements they needed? "This photo was taken in the same location, but two steps to the right of the CCTV camera."
Those two steps - would they be Mr. Re-enactor size steps or "Barbie-model" size steps? Or?

I wanted to expand a little bit on the view of that re-enactment photo, taken in front of a support beam, as opposed to the RCCL video that shows all the support beams in front of SA and Chloe at the window.

IMO, it is those support beams that led to the misconception that SA had his upper body out through the window, and the ensuing outcry by thousands of posters.

I have no dog in this race, no vested interest, just want to be fair to all parties concerned, since none of us were eye-witnesses to the actual incident.

So, do you think it was fair for RCCL to release only the video taken with the support beams obscuring the view, then to state in their motion for dismissal that SA leans all the way out the window prior to lifting Chloe?

They surely do have other videos, possibly one from behind the bar, where the support beams would not give the illusion that we are seeing window frames there.

I do understand that a video taken from behind the bar might be a little too graphic for public viewing, but for RCCL to state that the released videos clearly show SA with his upper body through the window opening is, IMO, prejudicial to the case.

 

[Bethan]

I meant Etsy, not easy. Sorry about all my typos today, just heard a friend was killed by her husband.

I’m so sorry @justice4allnow....that’s awful news to receive
: (

 

[LietKynes]

At the time the initial plea deal was discussed, SA firmly stated he would not accept a plea..... he wanted to “ prove his innocence”.

Given his stance, I’m not sure if the deal still stands.... don’t know law. SA is due back in PR court on Jan 27. It will be very interesting to see if plea deal is re- visited.

Well he should have taken it as soon as msm stated it was offered.
S.A. would be a fool not to do this. *ahem*

In the video when he not only leans out while holding Chloe he appears to extend his arms.
That action alone would've put her outside of the window !
Just horrifying.
In the highly questionable reenactment, they picked a thinner and shorter man to stand at the spot.

 

[akazia1978]

IMO, the only reason people insist on a blood test is that they hope the BAC level has gone down. Refusal in this state of a breath is an immediate suspension of a year. It's pretty much admitting guilt. ETG test would give an accurate reading within 72 hours.