Killer Cults?

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The goat sucker is a favorite among my friends and I. One went to Mexico a few years ago and we all asked her to bring us back some as pets. :) The Process, Son of Sam myth, you're right it's more like a trashy pulp fiction novel than an urban myth.

I look forward to reading your article and will do so shortly. But first, I must struggle through my Statistics homework. If I have one brain cell left with which to process your piece I will enjoy it after my homework. That will be my motivation for completing it. :crazy: You're helping me diet too, my usual motivation is chocolate.
 
Eire said:
Thanking you. :) You are correct, every faith has extremists and nut jobs. They don't define the belief system, but they do get most of the attention. I call it the newspaper factor. "Satanic group kicks puppies" sells more papers than "Satanic group feeds the homelsee." It's the same with "Christian blows up abortion clinic" that sells papers where "Christian youths aid disaster victims" wouldn't. It's a shame, people just don't want to read about the good. In the words of Don Henley "We love dirty laundry." When I quote Don Henley, it's a sure sign I need coffee and/or a nap. :)
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I couldnt agree more which was part of my point.
I appreciate your informative posts.
People that perpetuate these crimes are psychopaths first.
And tend to borrow bits and pieces of whatever philosophy they use to co sign their madness.
Im sure Richard Ramirez would take exception to the notion that he's not really a satanist yet it obvious he was sick killer who found the imagery he percieved to be 'satanic' inspiring and wanted to associate it with his crimes.
Your comments on the inaccuricies of the Sam group are prime example.
They couldnt get it right because they are eclectic dabblers borrowing from several sources.

I remain unconvinced as to a far reaching satanic conspiracy in that case Ive always felt it was a core group of several individuals which is well within the realm of possibilty.
I am convinced Berkowitz was not the only gunman.
I beleive Paganism to be a benign philosophy though I couldnt say the same for the OTO or the Process.
I invite anybody to do the necessary research into what these two groups truly believe(and dont just take Ed Sanders or Maury Terry's word for it)
And draw your own conclusions.
But it can be maddening though.
Im a Christian but reading the post in todays "Up To The Minute "Forum about the family that left the dead grandmother on the toilet waiting for her to be resurected.
I can understand how a Wiccan or Pagan must feel when reading about "Killer Satanic Cults"
 
I share your feelings about the OTO, though I do not know enough about them to truly comment. I've asked questions of followers, but information straight from the source is hard to come by. I prefer to ask followers rather than read what others have written because followers are closer to the source. All I can say is the OTO has put me off and I'm a bit leery of them. My mind is open to change, though. The Process, I've read so many mixed writings about them, I want to learn more before I form an opinion.

You and I, my friend, are on different sides of the same coin. We follow our faiths, but we aren't any more accountable for the actions of the wackos than the next guy. I recognized that in your postings. You and many others here are the type of people I look to when I get all militant about what the wackos do. You remind me that the stable certainly outnumber the wackos. :) May you have a blessed day.
 
What about a renegade group that was part gang, part cult? I think there are gangs that are in that arena.
 
Eire said:
I share your feelings about the OTO, though I do not know enough about them to truly comment. I've asked questions of followers, but information straight from the source is hard to come by. I prefer to ask followers rather than read what others have written because followers are closer to the source. All I can say is the OTO has put me off and I'm a bit leery of them. My mind is open to change, though. The Process, I've read so many mixed writings about them, I want to learn more before I form an opinion.

You and I, my friend, are on different sides of the same coin. We follow our faiths, but we aren't any more accountable for the actions of the wackos than the next guy. I recognized that in your postings. You and many others here are the type of people I look to when I get all militant about what the wackos do. You remind me that the stable certainly outnumber the wackos. :) May you have a blessed day.
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Thanks Eire!
I appreciate your articulate and informative posts.
You have a blessed day as well!:)
 
May I just say that I have found your posts very informative, Eire.

May I also say that a cult does not have to be satanic or pagan in origin.

http://truthbeknown2000.tripod.com/T...2000/id22.html I wanted to bump this link back up to the top on forms of torture that cults use (there are many that do not leave a mark like, spinning, near drowning, locking in boxes or coffins, blinding light, hanging upside down, forced ingestion of body fluids, list goes on.

Has anyone ever tossed around the idea that, if a gang does exist, they are filming the torture and deaths...like snuff film...as I recall the dicks saying that Chris Jenkins was most likely killed before his body was put in the water due to the position, clothes, etc
 
I am still on the fence with certain elements of this case, although I do believe that it is unusual and unlikely to have so many accidental drownings in certain geographical areas and none in other areas. I am not sure about the "smiley face" feature and feel that some cases may be suicides or accidents but all deserve a second look. So, if one thinks these murders are part of a "cult", we have to assume that it is a cult that can be very quiet. That rules out criminal gangs and such, since these people would likely talk if arrested for a seperate crime and thought that trading information would help reduce their jail time. In that vein, the cult would have to be made of members that never run into the law-religious sorts maybe-priests, nuns, ministers or even military. In that case, what would be the motive?
 
I thought from what the detectives said someone who is in jail has talked. That they know who some of these people are, they are in small cells or pods located in many areas. The graffiti definitely looks gang related to me, but maybe they do that to throw LE off. Personally though I think they do it to leave their tag or mark for other members, as well as other gangs to see.

Dark Shadows and Vermont 03's uncle worked together in corrections. They took pictures of the tags because they both collect/photo graffiti. I bet they would have some real insight into what is going on here and the nature of these cells/pods.
 
Indigator said:
I am still on the fence with certain elements of this case, although I do believe that it is unusual and unlikely to have so many accidental drownings in certain geographical areas and none in other areas. I am not sure about the "smiley face" feature and feel that some cases may be suicides or accidents but all deserve a second look.
For me, Indie makes a very strong point. Whether or not just a few of these cases are connected, it is inconceivable that this amount of similar circumstances are accidents and they must therefore be re-investigated.
The potential victim, and the families deserve that.

So, if one thinks these murders are part of a "cult", we have to assume that it is a cult that can be very quiet. That rules out criminal gangs and such, since these people would likely talk if arrested for a seperate crime and thought that trading information would help reduce their jail time. In that vein, the cult would have to be made of members that never run into the law-religious sorts maybe-priests, nuns, ministers or even military. In that case, what would be the motive?
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The motive would be whatever their belief structure feels they get, as a group or individual. Power? Promotion in the heirarchy? Power over others in some way. My gut feels the perception is that it has to be pretty big for such a large amount of possible victims and geography. I think the analysis on the grafitti is still out, the actual street name being written at a different location I find more compelling.
 
I'm confused, Capt. this is the "Satanic panic" shows that Geraldo ultimately had to apologize for and allegedly involved children, in what particular way might you think this relates to these cases?
 
It's just something I came across. Dispite any panic Geraldo was generating, there was this person saying there was a connection between these two people as a cult. It appeared that the person that took part in both locations was known. I remember Berkowitz saying he was not working alone. So is there any more information? Was Geraldo being held accountable for what his guests said?

I understood that the branch of the thread called "Killer Cults" was started by shadowraith to discuss this aspect without derailing the main thread.
 
Even the people who run charlesmanson.com scoff at the notion that Berkowitz and/or Manson were involved in a murderous cult. Geraldo apologized in public for his special on the subject, and while he is not accountable for what his guests said, I'd wager that he found the ones with the most way out there stories to generate more revenue for th show.
 
I would call the book writer likely questionable, but I'm not sure I can call the officer as being in Geraldo's pocket.
 
Aside from any possible son of sam cult, there is a cult that operates that Wis area, stretching down to Dubuque and over to Milwaukee. They started as a self styled group.
 
Capt. said:
It's just something I came across. Dispite any panic Geraldo was generating, there was this person saying there was a connection between these two people as a cult. It appeared that the person that took part in both locations was known. I remember Berkowitz saying he was not working alone. So is there any more information? Was Geraldo being held accountable for what his guests said?

I understood that the branch of the thread called "Killer Cults" was started by shadowraith to discuss this aspect without derailing the main thread.
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No captain, your exactly right, all possible cult theories are open to discussion here, I dont think you can have a "cult" thread and not run the sublime to the ridiculous!

I was just asking you what your thoughts were about that particular avenue in relations to these cases-
 
Eire said:
Even the people who run charlesmanson.com scoff at the notion that Berkowitz and/or Manson were involved in a murderous cult. Geraldo apologized in public for his special on the subject, and while he is not accountable for what his guests said, I'd wager that he found the ones with the most way out there stories to generate more revenue for th show.
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Ok not debating the editorial integrity of Geraldo, but how can anyone say Manson was not part of a murderous cult? That would seem a matter of fact- no?
 
Capt. said:
Aside from any possible son of sam cult, there is a cult that operates that Wis area, stretching down to Dubuque and over to Milwaukee. They started as a self styled group.
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What is the name of that cult, capt? What's their- "thing" or belief system, etc? Who is it made up of?
 
Blink34 said:
What is the name of that cult, capt? What's their- "thing" or belief system, etc? Who is it made up of?
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The belief system would be wide base satanism. I am not able to tell more due to hipaa concerns.
 
Capt. said:
The belief system would be wide base satanism. I am not able to tell more due to hipaa concerns.
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ok, trying to be delicate, tell me if I can't ask- do you mean because of injuries reflecting satanism that you see or are aware of in some way?
 
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