Lies point us to the truth #2

[icedtea4me]

icedtea4me,

Can you please show me your reference for said statement?
Thank you.

There were other police reports in the files that documented what I thought could be viewed as related behavior. CSIs had written about finding a pair of pajama bottoms in JonBenét’s bedroom that contained fecal material. They were too big for her and were thought to belong to Burke. (Kolar, Foreign Faction, pp 370-371)

1. The only blue pants taken into evidence was a pair of blue sweatpants.
2. The only blue pants photographed in JonBenet's room were the ones on her bathroom floor.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

There were other police reports in the files that documented what I thought could be viewed as related behavior. CSIs had written about finding a pair of pajama bottoms in JonBenét’s bedroom that contained fecal material. They were too big for her and were thought to belong to Burke. (Kolar, Foreign Faction, pp 370-371)

1. The only blue pants taken into evidence was a pair of blue sweatpants.
2. The only blue pants photographed in JonBenet's room were the ones on her bathroom floor.

Kolar and the other CSI investigators were wrong when they said that the blue sweatpants were blue pajama pants.

icedtea4me,

Perhaps you got it wrong. Not all the CSE was documented on acandyrose.

June 3, 1998: Evidential investigations continue

The case's lead investigator, Mark Beckner says there are “significant results” from the 1,058 pieces of evidence taken from the home. Details are not shared.

 

[UKGuy]

Yes, they did.

icedtea4me,
Well since John Ramsey admits handling the flashlight on Christmas night, i.e. Dr Phil cites JR, maybe you should head over to CrimeCon since John Ramsey Speaking at CrimeCon and ask him why he needed a flashlight at all?

You should write up your flashlight theory in detail and email it to Kolar for his perusal, might be the missing link for him?

.

 

[UKGuy]

There were other police reports in the files that documented what I thought could be viewed as related behavior. CSIs had written about finding a pair of pajama bottoms in JonBenét’s bedroom that contained fecal material. They were too big for her and were thought to belong to Burke. (Kolar, Foreign Faction, pp 370-371)

1. The only blue pants taken into evidence was a pair of blue sweatpants.
2. The only blue pants photographed in JonBenet's room were the ones on her bathroom floor.

icedtea4me,
Now, now, you must restrain your enthusiasm. You do not know what the color of the fecally soiled pajama bottoms were, Kolar does not describe their color, this detail is deliberately absent!


So statement 1. is totally false as is statement 2. Since the fecally soiled pajama bottoms might also be blue.

.

 

[UKGuy]

icedtea4me,

Perhaps you got it wrong. Not all the CSE was documented on acandyrose.

June 3, 1998: Evidential investigations continue

The case's lead investigator, Mark Beckner says there are “significant results” from the 1,058 pieces of evidence taken from the home. Details are not shared.

Rain on my Parade,
Sure, and anything linked to BR has been redacted, e.g. dna lab test results on JonBenet's size-12's and her body.

The Barbie Nightgown result slipped out early on, but did not specifically identify him.

.

 

[icedtea4me]

<snip>
Sure, and anything linked to BR has been redacted, e.g. dna lab test results on JonBenet's size-12's and her body.<snip>

Really, liar?

12-26-1996 Search Warrant Page 10:

White string from sled (33KKY)
Earring on Street (34KKY)
Canvas bag from crawl space (37KKY)
Black sheet metal from wine cellar (39KKY)
Broken purple ornament from basement (40KKY)
Red pocket knife with broken ornament (41KKY)
Vacuumed fibers (42KKY)
Felt tip pen (43KKY)
Hair fibers from victims pillow (44KKY)
Hair fibers from victims bed (45KKY)
Fibers from victims bed (46KKY)
Fibers from victims pillow (47KKY)
Vacuumed fibers from victims bed (48KKY)
Vacuumed fibers from victims pillow and bedspread (50KKY)
Sharpie marker (51KKY)
Hair fibers from Mr.& Mrs. Ramsey's bed (52KKY)
Hair found in brush in Mr. Ramsey's bathroom (53KKY)
Rolodex in Mr. Ramseys desk (54KKY)
Partially wrapped FOA Swartz (55KKY)
Partially wrapped FOA Swartz (56KKY)
Partially wrapped FOA Swartz (57KKY)
Marker (58KKY)
Marker (59KKY)
Handwritten note (61KKY)
My Science Project from Burke's room (65KKY)
Yellow notepad with writing (66KKY)

You continue to distance yourself from John Ramsey being JonBenet's sexual molester and murderer because you yourself are an adult male.

 

[UKGuy]

Really, liar?

12-26-1996 Search Warrant Page 10:

White string from sled (33KKY)
Earring on Street (34KKY)
Canvas bag from crawl space (37KKY)
Black sheet metal from wine cellar (39KKY)
Broken purple ornament from basement (40KKY)
Red pocket knife with broken ornament (41KKY)
Vacuumed fibers (42KKY)
Felt tip pen (43KKY)
Hair fibers from victims pillow (44KKY)
Hair fibers from victims bed (45KKY)
Fibers from victims bed (46KKY)
Fibers from victims pillow (47KKY)
Vacuumed fibers from victims bed (48KKY)
Vacuumed fibers from victims pillow and bedspread (50KKY)
Sharpie marker (51KKY)
Hair fibers from Mr.& Mrs. Ramsey's bed (52KKY)
Hair found in brush in Mr. Ramsey's bathroom (53KKY)
Rolodex in Mr. Ramseys desk (54KKY)
Partially wrapped FOA Swartz (55KKY)
Partially wrapped FOA Swartz (56KKY)
Partially wrapped FOA Swartz (57KKY)
Marker (58KKY)
Marker (59KKY)
Handwritten note (61KKY)
My Science Project from Burke's room (65KKY)
Yellow notepad with writing (66KKY)

You continue to distance yourself from John Ramsey being JonBenet's sexual molester and murderer because you yourself are an adult male.

icedtea4me,
Sure, keep playing that tune, it sounds familiar.

Ordinary Joe BagOfDonuts understands citing the knife does not implicate BR as one of the parents could have used it, e.g. Patsy to create the ligature?

.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Red pocket knife with broken ornament (41KKY)

icedtea4me,

Since the broken ornament was found in the wine cellar, do you suppose BR knife was as well?

June 1998 John Ramsey Interrogation by Lou Smit and Mike Kane (Broken Ornament in Basement)

0288
9 LOU SMIT: There's also photographs 183
10 and 184 that are taken in conjunction with that.
11 Photographs of the wine cellar floor. And I want
12 to show this to Mr. Ramsey. These, again, were
13 crime scene photographs after the search warrant
14 was obtained. If you have --
15 JOHN RAMSEY: Well it looks like it could
16 be a Christmas ornament. It looks a little bit
17 (INAUDIBLE) like the hook of the top of a
18 Christmas ornament. It wouldn't be unusual to find
19 one broken in that room.
20 LOU SMIT: It would not?
21 JOHN RAMSEY: No.
22 LOU SMIT: Okay, good.
23 JOHN RAMSEY: That's where we stored the
24 Christmas trees and stuff.
25 LOU SMIT: Okay.

From The Bonita Papers: A red Swiss army knife was also found lying in the corner of the room away from the blanket.

Question: How did BR know a week after the murders that somebody took out a knife? Specifically his knife?

My Science Project from Burke’s room (65KKY)
Why the science project? Do you believe there was a connection between PR and this report? Was the report taken for handwriting analysis?

According to ST, pg. 83
PR helped create the Good Fairy Project and chaired the science fair at High Peaks Elementary, where Burke and JonBenet were students." And according to LHP: “I once saw her work on a science project with Burke, JonBenet's brother, where she wrote numbers and letters with her left hand. She is absolutely ambidextrous”. This does not explain how BR knows how a knife was found in the wc or was used?

Sure, and anything linked to BR has been redacted, e.g. dna lab test results on JonBenet's size-12's and her body.

I understand UKGuy to be stating that there is no leaked report of the findings of dna evidence linking BR on the size 12 underwear or her body. Therefore, perhaps you should apologize for calling him/her a liar and your response. Or is that beneath you?

 

[icedtea4me]

icedtea4me,
Sure, keep playing that tune, it sounds familiar.

Ordinary Joe BagOfDonuts understands citing the knife does not implicate BR as one of the parents could have used it, e.g. Patsy to create the ligature?

.

Looks like you forgot what you posted on 2 Nov 2021.

proust20,
BR's knives are important as they are backup evidence he had been in the basement, unless you want to say the parents set him up?

Was Burke Involved? #6

 

[icedtea4me]

<snip>Question: How did BR know a week after the murders that somebody took out a knife? Specifically his knife?</snip>

Easy. He heard his mother come up the flight of stairs which were by his bedroom muttering to herself "She [Linda] said she hid it in a cabinet in the laundry area". He heard her walk down the hall toward the playroom. After he heard her walk back down the stairs, he waited until he felt the coast was clear, and got up to investigate. They wouldn't hear his footsteps up on the 2nd floor when they were down in the basement. He saw one of his mother's kitchen knives on the laundry area counter and the door to one of the cabinets opened. One knife had been switched for another.

 

[danablue1]

Right BR did not know the knife was hidden there only PR and the housekeeper did.

 

[danablue1]

Right BR did not know the knife was hidden there only PR and the housekeeper did.

In other words it was not BR who used the knife

 

[Rain on my Parade]

icedtea4me,

Had BR known his knife was in the diaper cabinet (which was open w/diapers hanging out) he would have retrieved it long ago. After all, there is that step stool in plain sight underneath JB Christmas tree he could have used to retrieve it. Or even the chair in JAR’s bedroom.

No, there has to be another explanation for his knowledge of his knife being used in the murder. He also knew about the “hammer” blow to JB. Do you care to elaborate on this?

 

[icedtea4me]

<snip>No, there has to be another explanation for his knowledge of his knife being used in the murder.

That's only because you have an insatiable desire for the culprit to be 9-yr old child Burke rather than an adult, like yourself.

He also knew about the “hammer” blow to JB. Do you care to elaborate on this?

Easy. He overheard one or both of his parents say something and/or he had seen a show (actors/cartoon) where Person A hits Person B over the head with something and renders Person B unconscious.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

That's only because you have an insatiable desire for the culprit to be 9-yr old child Burke rather than an adult, like yourself.

icedtea4me,

No sir, this is not the case. I merely want the truth to come to justice.

Easy. He overheard one or both of his parents say something and/or he had seen a show (actors/cartoon) where Person A hits Person B over the head with something and renders Person B unconscious.

I can sort of understand your thought process when it comes to BR overhearing his parents. I just don’t see them sitting down and stating “Either one of them took out a knife and used it or we/I hit JB over the head. It’s really a stretch. As for the movie reference … we’ll, that’s more then a stretch. Did you have a movie/cartoon in mind?

 

[proust20]

Burke related to the psychologist that JB was led down to the basement at knife point and then she was hit on the head. This need not refer to his Swiss Army knife. However, it betrays knowledge of the relevance of a knife to the WC scene, as well as the then undisclosed head blow. As JB was not wounded by a knife, its use to intimidate is plausible. There is no way to know if BR had the Swiss Army knife on the fatal night. BR's story makes sense as a possible scenario. It is not the product of the over active imagination of a 9 year old. If anything, one would expect exaggerated tales of terror from a boy whose home was invaded by a child murderer on Christmas.

The soiled pajama bottoms on JB's bedroom floor could not have been there for very long without drawing the attention of LHP. It is not certain what any of the Rs wore to bed, assuming they changed after arriving back from the White's. Patsy's and John's official stories have them redressing on the morning of the 26th - PR gets out of bed and puts on the same outfit as the night before while JR showers. Supposedly, JB wore pink pajamas (bottoms missing along with the size 6 Wed. Bloomis). It isn't clear what BR wore to bed. The folded velvet pants on JB's twin bed suggests that she was undressed there, though JB still in the GAP top suggests otherwise. Was this top placed originally along side the velvet pants? (What was JB going to wear on the flight to MI?) BR pretended to be asleep as the AM events unfolded. This amounts to at least aiding and abetting which cannot be applied legally to a minor. He could have changed out of what he had on all night and into the PJs that FW would have observed? All of this is typical of the case's endless complications over simple matters of fact. Couldn't BR have been wearing the long johns before JB was clad in them? This would streamline the narrative a bit. Burke's response to Dr. Bernhard indicates that he felt confident in his ability to keep a secret. Were his parents aware already of this trait?

The Barbie nightgown was found next to the body. The stager(s) were trying to deceive. Although, feelings of guilt and grief had to be part of the mental state. Given this, the nightgown may have been a comforting gesture along with the white blanket.

 

[UKGuy]

Looks like you forgot what you posted on 2 Nov 2021.



Was Burke Involved? #6

icedtea4me,
Just because I post something, it does not follow it's set in stone.

Presumably you accept the parents must have set Burke up, i.e. leaving the penknife and his long johns at the crime-scene means the parents are dis-interested in the outcome for BR?

Then of course there is always the possibility that BR found the penknife independently for whatever reason.

Knowing he owned more than one always allows for mis-identification when it comes to allocating which penknife to which location?

Like I said before if the case is BDI then it's no surprise to find his penknife in the basement.

Just finding the penkfnife in the basement does not mean the case is BDI as Patsy or John might have used the penknife indpendently.

Lastly the case might still be BDI with BR, PR, and JR all making use of the penknife, but forgetting to remove it from the basement, when it was all re-arranged to portray a kidnapping scenario?

.

 

[UKGuy]

That's only because you have an insatiable desire for the culprit to be 9-yr old child Burke rather than an adult, like yourself.



Easy. He overheard one or both of his parents say something and/or he had seen a show (actors/cartoon) where Person A hits Person B over the head with something and renders Person B unconscious.

icedtea4me,

That's only because you have an insatiable desire for the culprit to be 9-yr old child Burke rather than an adult, like yourself.

Most members have an insatiable desire for Justice for JonBenet. This includes considering Burke Ramsey as her initial assailant and her parents staging for Burke.

After the 911 call the parents would be aware of what Burke could hear. There is no way they are going to stage themselves out of a Murder then allow their son to listen in on the macabre details.

Patently you have an insatiable desire in promoting an adult only theory whilst offering absolutely no evidence for rejecting BDI, reminds me somewhat of the biblical quote referring to mote's in the eye, etc.

.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Burke related to the psychologist that JB was led down to the basement at knife point and then she was hit on the head. This need not refer to his Swiss Army knife. However, it betrays knowledge of the relevance of a knife to the WC scene, as well as the then undisclosed head blow. As JB was not wounded by a knife, its use to intimidate is plausible. There is no way to know if BR had the Swiss Army knife on the fatal night. BR's story makes sense as a possible scenario. It is not the product of the over active imagination of a 9 year old. If anything, one would expect exaggerated tales of terror from a boy whose home was invaded by a child murderer on Christmas.

proust20,

Yes, indeed. During this interview BR got very excited when his friends told him the reporters were asking about “him” @ school. He wasn’t the slightest upset about JB demise. As he stated, “I’m just getting on with my life”. This as you said isn’t normal for a 9 year old child to feel when his sister was murdered in his home (while he supposedly slept).

The soiled pajama bottoms on JB's bedroom floor could not have been there for very long without drawing the attention of LHP.

I am sure the house was tidied up before the Christmas party on the 23rd by LHP. She would have picked the soiled pants up.
Here is another interesting note concerning LHP. PR and LHP communication occurred via the spiral staircase. This is seldom ever discussed as it doesn’t seem relevant. Except PR states that is where she found the note. Then it magically moved to the floor. No identification of JR on the note?
** Another important note - PR states she waited for JR after passing off the note upstairs/downstairs by the wet bar. And that he walked up the stairs. From that position the butlers pantry are the only steps he could have walked up from to meet her there. Therefore, he came from the basement. Otherwise he would have used the front staircase and walked through the kitchen. He wasn’t aware of PR stance at that point in time. I think everybody in that family is not telling the truth. They slip up. All of them.

Supposedly, JB wore pink pajamas (bottoms missing along with the size 6 Wed. Bloomis). It isn't clear what BR wore to bed. The folded velvet pants on JB's twin bed suggests that she was undressed there, though JB still in the GAP top suggests otherwise. Was this top placed originally along side the velvet pants? (What was JB going to wear on the flight to MI?)

I do believe that PR put JB to bed in the red sweater found in her bathroom as she originally stated. The disappearance of the pink pajama bottoms, 6 ea. of size 12 bloomies and one size 6 bloomie is a mystery as is the blood found on the Barbie nightgown, found in the wc. I think the size 6 Wednesday is an odd assumption. There is no detailed account released to the public the size 6 bloomies were missing. Was PR involved in dressing JB on the 25th. JB couldn’t read the days of the week and PR couldn’t remember bathing her; nor dressing her. What she did remember is why the red turtleneck was found on the bathroom sink. Here is an example of JB being defiant. PR was probably livid about this. After all JB was to do as she was told.

In the video it appears that is JB jacket laying on her bed. Look at the snaps. Remember the last photo taken of her at the White’s house? There are snaps on the jacket. This could have been what caused the round abrasion on her right cheek by her ear. But she would have had to be lying on it. Perhaps at one point the jacket was on her bedroom floor. The black pants could very well be the ones found in her bathroom. Although there is something black there beside her Barbie house, along with her boots that she wore that night. I doubt if it is her pants but perhaps. CSI do not elaborate on this. It makes since that PR planned on JB wearing her red sweater and black velvet pants so they would match the next morning for the flight.

BR pretended to be asleep as the AM events unfolded. This amounts to at least aiding and abetting which cannot be applied legally to a minor. He could have changed out of what he had on all night and into the PJs that FW would have observed? All of this is typical of the case's endless complications over simple matters of fact. Couldn't BR have been wearing the long johns before JB was clad in them? This would streamline the narrative a bit. Burke's response to Dr. Bernhard indicates that he felt confident in his ability to keep a secret. Were his parents aware already of this trait?

BR did pretend to be asleep that morning. What would be considered a normal response for (a boy of 9) would be curiosity. To get up to see what all the commotion was about. Especially since all the coming and goings were directly beneath his bedroom and could be viewed (overheard) from there as well. What 9 year old boy (seeing cops at his house) wouldn’t get up to see what was going on?
And he was confident in keeping secrets. From his relationship that we know of with his Aunt Pam. She taught him to exhibit; said behavior.
He could have changed cloths. Yet, there are all those fuzzy blue fibers. Like you said endless complications over simple matters of fact. Since BPD has the evidence they know what is up, IMO. So, we must ask ourselves what is the logic behind that. IMO, money talks and they all walk.

The Barbie nightgown was found next to the body. The stager(s) were trying to deceive. Although, feelings of guilt and grief had to be part of the mental state. Given this, the nightgown may have been a comforting gesture along with the white blanket.

Sounds like the feminine style used to write the RN.

 

[UKGuy]

Burke related to the psychologist that JB was led down to the basement at knife point and then she was hit on the head. This need not refer to his Swiss Army knife. However, it betrays knowledge of the relevance of a knife to the WC scene, as well as the then undisclosed head blow. As JB was not wounded by a knife, its use to intimidate is plausible. There is no way to know if BR had the Swiss Army knife on the fatal night. BR's story makes sense as a possible scenario. It is not the product of the over active imagination of a 9 year old. If anything, one would expect exaggerated tales of terror from a boy whose home was invaded by a child murderer on Christmas.

The soiled pajama bottoms on JB's bedroom floor could not have been there for very long without drawing the attention of LHP. It is not certain what any of the Rs wore to bed, assuming they changed after arriving back from the White's. Patsy's and John's official stories have them redressing on the morning of the 26th - PR gets out of bed and puts on the same outfit as the night before while JR showers. Supposedly, JB wore pink pajamas (bottoms missing along with the size 6 Wed. Bloomis). It isn't clear what BR wore to bed. The folded velvet pants on JB's twin bed suggests that she was undressed there, though JB still in the GAP top suggests otherwise. Was this top placed originally along side the velvet pants? (What was JB going to wear on the flight to MI?) BR pretended to be asleep as the AM events unfolded. This amounts to at least aiding and abetting which cannot be applied legally to a minor. He could have changed out of what he had on all night and into the PJs that FW would have observed? All of this is typical of the case's endless complications over simple matters of fact. Couldn't BR have been wearing the long johns before JB was clad in them? This would streamline the narrative a bit. Burke's response to Dr. Bernhard indicates that he felt confident in his ability to keep a secret. Were his parents aware already of this trait?

The Barbie nightgown was found next to the body. The stager(s) were trying to deceive. Although, feelings of guilt and grief had to be part of the mental state. Given this, the nightgown may have been a comforting gesture along with the white blanket.

proust20,

The soiled pajama bottoms on JB's bedroom floor could not have been there for very long without drawing the attention of LHP. It is not certain what any of the Rs wore to bed, assuming they changed after arriving back from the White's.

The fecally soiled pajama bottoms arrived the night JonBenet was killed. Read Patsy's ramnesic answers on this topic.

It's Christmas night and everyone is up early the next morning so they all likely just wore what they wore the night before.

Patsy likely redressed in the previous night's clothing in an attempt to confuse the investigators, I'll bet it was a forensic red flag that she was faking?

The Barbie nightgown was found next to the body. The stager(s) were trying to deceive. Although, feelings of guilt and grief had to be part of the mental state. Given this, the nightgown may have been a comforting gesture along with the white blanket.

Everything in the wine-cellar that was not there prior to the Christmas Decorations being moved upstairs is there to embellish the Kidnapping Scenario, including Burke's gifts, a bloodstained Barbie Gown found in JonBenet's bedroom might suggest something else?

A comforting gesture would have been dialling medical assistance for JonBenet.

Assuming the case is BDI and as Kolar alleges in his book that BR had Behavor Problems, were BR's issues ever resolved, do they still exist?

If they do what steps does BR take to alleviate them, might they pop up at some point in his adult life?

Still no signs that he has a romantic attachment or has any marriage plans, does the case outline mean he might never marry?

.