CONVICTION OVERTURNED MD - Hae Min Lee, 17, Baltimore, 13 Jan 1999

[GoodbyeKitty27]

I didn't know anything about the case before Serial, and while I've followed a lot of true crime, I was somewhat new to the podcast format (and of course we were all new to 'injustice *advertiser censored*'). I remember thinking that she sounded excited, like someone getting into their first real 'mystery' case. But I always thought Adnan sounded sketchy, like he was heavily editing his answers in his head, trying to guess what someone expected him to say and always say the right thing/cover his butt, etc. And at the end I had the sense that SK was unconvinced, so I don't know, I guess I came away feeling like I had listened to a legit 'documentary', one that didn't pretend to have the answers.

But that was a year ago, and since then I've become considerably more skeptical about this whole new entertainment industry that has cropped up.

Interesting. It is quite something that some people have followed crime stories or that of the like but now your aptly called "injustice *advertiser censored*" (love it) is becoming a widely spread thing.

Have you listened to Undisclosed?


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[ArianeEmory]

Interesting. It is quite something that some people have followed crime stories or that of the like but now your aptly called "injustice *advertiser censored*" (love it) is becoming a widely spread thing.

Have you listened to Undisclosed?


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I started to listen to Undisclosed, but then I thought I heard that it was being funded by supporters of one of the accused (is it Jay or Adnan? can't remember) so I assumed there wouldn't be much objectivity. This was, again, a year ago though, and I didn't look into it deeply.

 

[GoodbyeKitty27]

The Undisclosed podcast has no real intention of being unbiased. The creator & main narrator, Rabia is a friend of Adnan (I believe even his cousin) & she is trying to piece it together. They (Rabia, Colin & Susan) go VERY in depth & their website has an amazing documents library, broken down by episode so it's very interesting to follow along, even listen whilst reading the transcript of what you're hearing & follow along w the documents they are referencing


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[GoodbyeKitty27]

& yes, it is brought in part by FreeAdnan (along with other sponsors) & they do have a link on the site to donate to his defense team & legal funds
Which I have not done at this time

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[MzOpinion8d]

I'm listening to the updates. The way they're set up is bugging me a little--SK sounds much more biased than in the original series, and she seems to downplay any daily developments that are not in Adnan's favor. In short, it sounds like she's rooting for him, which makes me think her objectivity is gone, so the overall journalistic quality isn't there. More like a fan podcast.

That's interesting, because to me it seems as if she has tried to distance herself even more and comes across as dismissive of all the hard work Adnan's attorney and the Undisclosed team have done.

Undisclosed is biased in favor of Adnan but there is useful info worth listening to. Rabia is a friend of his family. Her brother Saad was/is his best friend.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

I listened to serial recently, I cant work out what I think. I would be more sure he was innocent if it wasnt for Jay, what did he have to gain by lying? He was lying but the one thing that stayed the same in what he was that syed killed Hae.

Unless he was covering for someone, but who? And he did know where the car was.

Im really on the fence about this one.

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Jay was being told he'd be facing first degree murder charges and the death penalty. That was his motivation.

 

[kimlo]

Im listening to the undisclosed podcasts now, there are loads of them! But they are a lot more indepth.

I am more swayed towards innocent now, but I am trying to keep an open mind until I get to the end, especially bearing in mind the obvious bias.

Today I listened to the one where they were saying she couldnt have been buried when the prosicution said that she was, and that definetly gave me cause to to think, as did the episode looking at Jay and when he was talking to the police and the diffrent answers he gave. They put forward a good argument for him having been coached, and his answers changing to fit the evidence as it was discovered.



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[ArianeEmory]

That's interesting, because to me it seems as if she has tried to distance herself even more and comes across as dismissive of all the hard work Adnan's attorney and the Undisclosed team have done.

Undisclosed is biased in favor of Adnan but there is useful info worth listening to. Rabia is a friend of his family. Her brother Saad was/is his best friend.

I only listened to the first two recent updates. She sounded uber excited about Asia and downplayed anything that undercut Asia's testimony. But again, only listened to two.

I know who Rabia is. My view of her is a little wobbly after reading about some shenanigans on Reddit (see Ann Brocklehurst's blog).

 

[MzOpinion8d]

I only listened to the first two recent updates. She sounded uber excited about Asia and downplayed anything that undercut Asia's testimony. But again, only listened to two.

I know who Rabia is. My view of her is a little wobbly after reading about some shenanigans on Reddit (see Ann Brocklehurst's blog).

Yeah, sorry, the info about Rabia was in response to someone else's post saying they thought she was Adnan's cousin.

I think Ann Brocklehurst is an idiot! She went on an episode of Truth & Justice (when it was still called Serial Dynasty) and tried hard to support her "Adnan is guilty" argument but failed. She came across as so foolish because she really doesn't know what she thinks she knows. I just don't find her credible.

 

[ArianeEmory]

I've definitely gotten the sense that Adnan supporters hate Ann, but she's been excellent in covering the Tim Bosma murder.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

I've definitely gotten the sense that Adnan supporters hate Ann, but she's been excellent in covering the Tim Bosma murder.

I haven't been following that. Most likely it's just that she isn't as familiar with Adnan's case - and it's hard to be that familiar with it, because there are a lot of details that add up. A lot of the "guilters" say it's a simple domestic violence case, open and shut, but it's definitely not that simple!

Thanks for the info about Bosma. I'll look into that when I have some time!

 

[ArianeEmory]

I haven't been following that. Most likely it's just that she isn't as familiar with Adnan's case - and it's hard to be that familiar with it, because there are a lot of details that add up. A lot of the "guilters" say it's a simple domestic violence case, open and shut, but it's definitely not that simple!

Thanks for the info about Bosma. I'll look into that when I have some time!

Sure thing. In a bizarre way it's the same but also completely opposite of Steven Avery--RICH guy with no criminal record winds up with an incinerated corpse on his property and the dead person's vehicle in a trailer at the rich guy's mom's house. When police arrested him (long story but worth a look), they started digging and realized he had a father who had "committed suicide" six months before, and a girlfriend who had disappeared six months before that. He's now been charged with all three murders and is in trial for the first. It's considerably less murky than Adnan/SA, but Dellen Millard still has his defenders. (And, weirdly, has had them for three years now--long before Serial or MaM.)

This is TOTALLY a shot in the dark and I don't know Ann and won't speak for her motives, but I wonder if dealing with the defenders of Dellen Millard gave her a bit less patience with "injustice *advertiser censored*". It's certainly caused me some bias.

 

[Elisaa444]

Yeah, sorry, the info about Rabia was in response to someone else's post saying they thought she was Adnan's cousin.

I think Ann Brocklehurst is an idiot! She went on an episode of Truth & Justice (when it was still called Serial Dynasty) and tried hard to support her "Adnan is guilty" argument but failed. She came across as so foolish because she really doesn't know what she thinks she knows. I just don't find her credible.

BBM

^Yesss! She drove me crazy talking about Adnan's case.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

Sure thing. In a bizarre way it's the same but also completely opposite of Steven Avery--RICH guy with no criminal record winds up with an incinerated corpse on his property and the dead person's vehicle in a trailer at the rich guy's mom's house. When police arrested him (long story but worth a look), they started digging and realized he had a father who had "committed suicide" six months before, and a girlfriend who had disappeared six months before that. He's now been charged with all three murders and is in trial for the first. It's considerably less murky than Adnan/SA, but Dellen Millard still has his defenders. (And, weirdly, has had them for three years now--long before Serial or MaM.)

This is TOTALLY a shot in the dark and I don't know Ann and won't speak for her motives, but I wonder if dealing with the defenders of Dellen Millard gave her a bit less patience with "injustice *advertiser censored*". It's certainly caused me some bias.

Wow, how have I missed this one?? Hoping for some downtime at work this week now...lol

 

[colette]

Personally I feel that Adnan is guilty. Hae rejected getting back together and he felt she had disrespected him. In the serial podcasts he has that glib answer for everything that many killers have when they are pretending to be innocent. Just my opinion.

 

[edgedweller]

Personally I feel that Adnan is guilty. Hae rejected getting back together and he felt she had disrespected him. In the serial podcasts he has that glib answer for everything that many killers have when they are pretending to be innocent. Just my opinion.

Where did he leave her body for at least 8 hrs, on her front, to fit in with the lividity evidence?


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[edgedweller]

Personally I feel that Adnan is guilty. Hae rejected getting back together and he felt she had disrespected him. In the serial podcasts he has that glib answer for everything that many killers have when they are pretending to be innocent. Just my opinion.

I don't think he was that interested in Hae anymore - he already was seeing other girls. Jay never gave Adnan a motive - I find that interesting. If someone you knew said "I'm gonna kill that *****", wouldn't you at least as WHY?
I don't think Adnan has glib answers - many of his problems are caused by him not remembering in detail what happened on that day (if he was guilty, why not make up a story?).


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[ArianeEmory]

Personally I feel that Adnan is guilty. Hae rejected getting back together and he felt she had disrespected him. In the serial podcasts he has that glib answer for everything that many killers have when they are pretending to be innocent. Just my opinion.

I agree with you about his answers; it was my very first impression, back before the podcast went viral. He parses what people ask him, and he thinks VERY carefully about how his answers will sound. And then he tacks on extra disclaimers as he parses his own words. He does it really fast. That specific behavior is why my "gut" isn't too impressed by the idea that he's innocent.

 

[edgedweller]

I agree with you about his answers; it was my very first impression, back before the podcast went viral. He parses what people ask him, and he thinks VERY carefully about how his answers will sound. And then he tacks on extra disclaimers as he parses his own words. He does it really fast. That specific behavior is why my "gut" isn't too impressed by the idea that he's innocent.

Hmmm... You may feel uncomfortable with him being touted as innocent, but if you listen to the evidence that the Undisclosed team have unearthed, you cannot deny that he did not receive a fair trial, his lawyer was incompetent, and the state did not prove their case against him. They told him he would get the death penalty, even though he was only 17 when arrested so they changed his DOB on his booking sheet to make it look as though he was 18. Their ONLY witness against him was Jay, who was also threatened with the death penalty if he didn't testify against Adnan. He was also a notorious liar who changed his story every time the police changed their 'evidence'. The case was corrupt from start to finish and they never investigated any other suspect in any depth once they had decided it was Adnan. Hae's boyfriend at the time falsified his work time sheet *before it was even a murder enquiry*.
Why was the DNA on Hae's body never tested?

I could go on, but don't take this case at face value - there is SO much more information. Serial just scraped the surface.


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[ArianeEmory]

This isn't reddit and I'm not on the jury, and I don't have an obligation to listen to a podcast funded by the accused's family before having an opinion. I mean, unless you're gonna dox me or something.