NC - MacDonald family murders at Fort Bragg, 1970 - Jeffrey MacDonald innocent?

[fullmoon]

The OWN network has scheduled the 48 Hours episode on McDonald for Wednesday, Oct. 31, at 2 a.m. The network pulled this from the schedule last month for some reason.

 

[JodyMT]

The OWN network has scheduled the 48 Hours episode on McDonald for Wednesday, Oct. 31, at 2 a.m. The network pulled this from the schedule last month for some reason.

Can't wait to watch it.

 

[JodyMT]

It's very interesting that so few items are the ones MacD wants to test. Nothing with blood evidence on it. A few hairs? That will prove absolutely nothing. They had dinner parties and guests and it was an apartment that had others live in it before them. Can you account for every hair, every fiber, every fingerprint in your house? Unless you live in an industrial clean room, you should expect there to be some evidence of other people in your house. Artifacts have to be tied to the crime not just exist in general for it to mean anything.

Test away.

I want to know why MacD isn't insisting the bathmat be tested, why the weapons aren't being tested, and why lots of things aren't being tested.

What random intruder would take a knife and an ice pick, go to the bathroom, wipe down those items on the bathmat after stabbing 3 people, including 2 babies, and then lay the bathmat over Collette's lower body? Such meticulous actions for a band of drug-crazed hippies who were supposedly high.

Sort of reminds me of the stories of Khloe Kardashian wanting a DNA test to prove she is Robert Kardashian's daughter, but doesn't want to be tested against her sisters, only against her mother. What is that going to prove?

 

[JenniferTx]

So is he getting another trial or not? I've been out of the loop here for about a month.

 

[MissJ]

Ms. Stoeckley, like a lot of mentally ill persons,was taking credit for a crime she did not commit. No way did anyone come into that tiny home, wrestle wildly with Jeff McD, injure him slightly and then brutalize a woman and children. It isn't logic. JMO

 

[Fishee]

So is he getting another trial or not? I've been out of the loop here for about a month.

The judge isn't scheduled to rule for another 30 days or so.

Based on what I've read I doubt the result will be any different than his previous appeals.

 

[Cracka*Jaxx]

A pretty in-depth Vanity Fair article from 1998 - another case of the author seeming to buy MacDonald's story initially then slowly gravitating toward the inevitable.

http://m.vanityfair.com/magazine/archive/1998/07/macdonald199807

Thank you, hollyjokers, for this link. Although I have the book, 'Fatal Vision', this excellent article not only refreshed my memory, but mentioned some things I hadn't known before. And I am now more convinced than ever of MacDonald's guilt.

The idea that all these years his pompous attorney's are holding out hope of his acquittal based on two blonde, synthetic hairs is just about laughable. I did not know that the hairs were found in Collette's hairbrush. Is MacDonald alleging that Stockely took time during the slaughter to brush her wig?! Obviously, one of the children used mommy's brush on her own, long haired doll. Having been a little girl once, I used to do that all the time. As a matter of fact, I now collect Barbie dolls and use my own hairbrush on them.

I also noted that supposedly MacDonald was clubbed several times- hard enough, in fact, to knock him unconscious. I don't remember these injuries being included in McGinness's book. Were they part of the medical report? We can speculate about how MacDonald punctured his own lung, but I just don't remember how the DA explained away injuries that severe. I just cannot remember MacDonald having injuries like that at all.

I think age has a lot to do with how we see things, because I'm questioning even more of MacDonald's explanation that I did when he first murdered his family. Back then, I didn't think anything when Kimberly supposedly screamed for her daddy while being murdered. But life has shown me that probably a huge majority of children would call for their mommy if they needed help. I guess it's because mothers are usually the caregivers. So, for me this is another nail in his coffin.

And isn't it beyond believable that the intruders didn't leave even one fingerprint or footprint? As 'high' as MacDonald claimed they were, they took time to wipe away evidence that would prove they were there. And they were clever enough to locate, then put on his surgical gloves before dipping into Collette's blood.

No wonder the jury didn't take long to convict him. Most likely he will die in prison, which is just where he belongs. The death penalty would have been too easy for him. I'm sure he's suffering greatly every single day that he's locked away from the material riches he had hoped to enjoy after wiping out his family.

 

[rashomon]

I also noted that supposedly MacDonald was clubbed several times- hard enough, in fact, to knock him unconscious. I don't remember these injuries being included in McGinness's book. Were they part of the medical report? We can speculate about how MacDonald punctured his own lung, but I just don't remember how the DA explained away injuries that severe. I just cannot remember MacDonald having injuries like that at all.

Nor can I. I have studied this case in great detail; MacDonald been did have a small bump on his head (Colette probably struck back at him), but this was nothing that would have knocked him unconscious.

 

[borndem]

Beautifully said, Cracka*Jaxx -- The V.F. article was a very good one then, and it's still very strong now. That man has ***** of brass to even talk about those murders the way he still does. Why? Why? He just needs to take his medicine & be glad he has had 42 (yes, FORTY-TWO) years that Collette, Kimmy and Kristy have not had. And the yet unborn little boy who would have been theirs. Kimmy never had a first-grade Valentine, and Kristy never saw a kindergarten class. Collette never saw the son she would have loved, and the son never drew a breath of air. I also think the whole ordeal put Freddy and Mildred Kassab in early graves. Nobody has grieved more that they did. How dare he!! Makes me want to scream. Oh, what Narcissistic gall he has. And he's only talking to a few who will listen. He is his own biggest fan.

Oh, let me stop....ullhair::rant:

 

[borndem]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/29/justic...html?hpt=hp_c1

According to the above article, "Kristen, 2, was stabbed 48 times; a finger was nearly severed as she tried to fend off the blows,"

Any thoughts on why he stabbed the toddler 48 times? Makes me sick to read it. That is just pure evil. McDonald should have been stabbed 48 times with an ice pick as part of his sentence. Now that would have been justice!

That's the main reason the jury convicted him of 1st Degree Murder for Kristy. They thought, and I agree, that the murders of Collette & Kimmy were 2nd degree (hot-blooded, in a haze of fury, and not planned), but Kristy's murder was done in JM's cold blood. He had to purposefully walk into her bedroom, pick her up from her bed, put her on his knees and jam that knife and icepick into her little back and chest coolly and calmly, simply to make his story sound better and more believable. Kristy saw her daddy with the weapons before he slammed them into her chest, time after time after time. She was his flesh & blood, and she was two years old.

 

[Satch]

I followed this case for 30 years, presenting papers from both prosecution and defense points of view. I have been out of the loop with the recent evidence hearing. Could judge Fox set Mcdonald free? Or just order a new trial? Or deny the appeal? Wasn't the new DNA submitted about 3-5 years ago? I believe McDonald is guilty, but have been open to everything both sides have presented. I don't see anything new from the defense.

The main reasons for his guilt are:

1.) The living room is too neat. Recall the overturned coffee table? There's only about 3-5 feet of space between the couch and the table. If there were intruders, they could not stand, let alone fight in a small area like that? The room was dark. How could Jeff or they, or anyone see what they were doing. Nothing is disturbed except for the overturned table.

2.) Jeff's family is murdered and horribly butchered. Jeff's wounds are certainly minor by comparison. The lung puncture, I do believe a doctor would know how and where to make a superficial incision in that area. Even so, Jeff's cuts were not jagged. They were small, precise, and clean. In a fight for survival, I think we would see more jagged wounds.

3.) Going on the wounds theory, we know the alleged assailants were not injured at all! That is powerful evidence that the intruder story was a sham. Maybe it is circumstantial evince.

I believe there is some reasonable doubt as to the Army and CID's preservation of the crime scene. I believe some evidence was not handled as carefully as it should have been. I still would have liked to have heard what Helena Stockley might have said that day if she was able to remember. I would have liked to have seen the phone records of Jimmy Frier's phone call. There are some issues that create some doubt as to the handling of the evidence. However, I don't think there's enough there to overturn Mcdonald's guilt. We would need specific DNA from Stockley or Mitchell from the house to show McDonald's innocence. The fact that some tests came back inconclusive, or the fibers are too small to test, I don't think makes Macdonald less guilty.

Unidentified fibers could have simply come from other investigators in the home, or showed that Collete was not a great housekeeper. There's nothing that says, "YES! These hairs or skin fibers, or fragments from this brush or this glass came from Helena or her friends. There was also no evidence of a break in. Did Helena and her friends just walk in the door and presume to find Jeff sleeping on the couch? The doubt that the defense is trying to raise is NOT REASONABLE!

Satch

 

[Dionbrother]

If a Green Beret couldn't handle a couple of hippies, then the Army would have canceled the program.

 

[MissJ]

The new evidence is that the defense claims Jim Blackburn threatened Helena Stockley, evidence which is hearsay since Helena is dead and unable to testify to being threatened-this is the same Helena Stockley that wrote a letter to the judge that the defense also was threatening her back during the actual trial. Her testimony was deemed unreliable because she recanted as many times as she claimed she was there and was unable to relate the crime or even the layout of the house.

The other piece of evidence is that one of the children had a hair under a fingernail that did not match any of the occupants of the house-this is the defense that claims this.

MacDonald was a Green Beret hardened by YEARS of working out, who had NOT one scratch on him BUT a single incision which was just deep enough to puncture his lung. There was blood in the bathroom where the scalpels were kept and there were rubber gloves taken from that location.

Not one other occupant of that house posed any kind of reasonable threat to the intruders. Not one of them. But the one person who could have been a danger has a single wound on him of any consequence. He has no ice pick wounds, in spite of his claims, he has no head wounds. NOTHING. And his wife and children were SLAUGHTERED.

MacDonald is EXTREMELY fortunate his crime occurred when it did. He is lucky they threw his pajama pants away. He is pond scum and I wish oh wish that people would stop investing time in him.

Thanks for your marvelous comments. It is well known that HS was mentally ill and would probably have admitted to anything that happened at that time. There was absolutely no reason to believe that she was involved.

 

[borndem]

If a Green Beret couldn't handle a couple of hippies, then the Army would have canceled the program.

Yes! You said it, Dionbrother. He would have fought all of them till either they were all dead or until he was -- that's the way he was trained -- and he would have taken, in the process either way, a lot of bad damage to himself -- not just little pricks and bumps... Further, if they were entering the residence to rob, they would have gone at him first and put him away, or they would have died or fled in the process.

His story is just pure hogwash, and was from the first minute, and the investigators knew it. Grrrrrr.

 

[katydid23]

Yes! You said it, Dionbrother. He would have fought all of them till either they were all dead or until he was -- that's the way he was trained -- and he would have taken, in the process either way, a lot of bad damage to himself -- not just little pricks and bumps... Further, if they were entering the residence to rob, they would have gone at him first and put him away, or they would have died or fled in the process.

His story is just pure hogwash, and was from the first minute, and the investigators knew it. Grrrrrr.

EXACTLY. That is one of the main reasons that I knew he was lying. My husband is no Green Beret, but if stoned Hippies came in with knives and began going after our kids, my DH would fight to the death. And he would leave some of the intruders blood in the hallway in the process.

 

[borndem]

And one more thang:

We, the People; the prosecution; Collette's family; and the CID investigators were very fortunate that JM blabbed his story of it all to the investigators so early -- I've just re-read it in Fatal Vision (for prolly the 10th time!). Just like McGinniss said, the story was laid and cast in stone on the recording of it, and he couldn't change it, although I'm sure he would have liked to do it... But he hadn't really thought it out well, he under-estimated the experience & skill of the CID and the prosecution, as his Narcissistic personality did many times, so he was tied up in it and it stuck to him like glue (McGinniss's words). Thank you, Captain & killer MacDonald!

 

[Satch]

You guys should see False Witness. The BBC Documentary on You Tube: It presents both sides of the case very well and has some new information (to me at least,) that I did not know about Stockley or Mitchell:

It is 6 parts about 15:00 minutes each. Enjoy!

Part 1: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uH1jpF-pylI&feature=plcp"]False Witness - Jeffrey MacDonald documentary - Part 1 of 6 - YouTube[/ame]

Part 2: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UwLfD1ZhhM&feature=relmfu"]False Witness - Jeffrey MacDonald documentary - Part 2 of 6 - YouTube[/ame]

Part 3: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJx_YdtkvhQ&feature=endscreen&NR=1"]False Witness - Jeffrey MacDonald documentary - Part 3 of 6 - YouTube[/ame]

Part 4: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4uSMfuhC9E&feature=relmfu"]False Witness - Jeffrey MacDonald documentary - Part 4 of 6 - YouTube[/ame]

Part 5: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfdlY-XXs9E&feature=relmfu"]False Witness - Jeffrey MacDonald documentary - Part 5 of 6 - YouTube[/ame]

Part 6: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDXcDXL95-I&feature=relmfu"]False Witness - Jeffrey MacDonald documentary - Part 6 of 6 - YouTube[/ame]

Satch

 

[Satch]

I think I read in FV that Jeff and his brother Jay got into a big fight when Jeff was in High School, and "Jeff almost killed him." Does anyone recall what that fight was about or the specifics of their argument?

Satch

 

[rosierider]

Maybe he is innocent?
http://www.salon.com/2012/11/30/maybe_jeffrey_macdonald_was_innocent_after_all/

 

[angelmom]

Maybe he is innocent?
http://www.salon.com/2012/11/30/maybe_jeffrey_macdonald_was_innocent_after_all/

I believe there is a possibility of misconduct, and we KNOW there were flaws in the investigation; however, I still believe 100% that he committed the murders and is right where he belongs.

This whole idea that he had no history of violence and so couldn't have done this is ludicrous. Scott Peterson, anyone? WS is full of people who committed horrific acts with no warning, no criminal record, no history of violence. Nothing. It happens every day.