GUILTY NY - Andrew Cianfrini, 21 mos, fatally poisoned, Elmira, 10 Nov 2009

[kbl8201]

why did it take 4 months to figure this out

 

[Angel4u2Whisper2]

I think the article (first one linked in the thred) mentioned that they knew about the antifreeze componant within a week of his death due to an autopsy. The responding officers wondered if the child was a victem of the swine flu. I think they must of needed to have more complicated and complete testing done to determine when, how much and who provided or neglected to notice the antifreeze before filing charges? Once a person is charged a due process starts if I am not mistaken. No room for charging the wrong person?

 

[Texas Mist]

I'm glad you remembered the case I was trying to describe. I am sorry that I cannot remember the name of the child who died, or his mother who was sentenced to prison, but as much as I try to remember, I just can't.

I know that the probability is that this stepmother killed the little boy. I guess I just am hoping against hope that his death was the result of a natural process, and not murder.

If she did this, manslaughter doesn't even begin to describe what she did. She should be charged with first degree murder, she should be never ever be set free to harm another innocent child.

I thought of that case too -- but wasn't that baby much younger?

NM - found an old article -- the Stallings baby was 5 months old when he died of MMA

http://www.msbp.com/stlouis.htm

 

[kbl8201]

and the prosecutors tried to say on appeal that cause the second baby had mma didnt mean the first baby wasnt murdered. meaning it was just the biggest coincicdence ever.

goes to show prosecutors wont ever admit there wrong

 

[Angel4u2Whisper2]

Just a quick question. I can do the research later but I wondered about the case that is being discussed the following question (s) how old were both children when they passed away?, the common age of diagnosis and what is the normal onset? This child was almost 2 years old. He lived in another household. One or both homes that he lived or stayed at you would wonder if his "symptoms" should they have been related to an illness would have been reported and or documented by now? If the truth is what it reads, the antifreeze was found inside the cup. That would leave out the other theories. IMO

 

[Angel4u2Whisper2]

OT

A quick note..I think Websleuths is great! Thank you all for your input on this story.

 

[rpipergirl]

first degree murder is pre meditated with malice of forethought.........i would think this crime would define that

Ya Think!!! It's so rediculous. What is with this DA. :furious::furious::banghead::banghead:

 

[Angel4u2Whisper2]

I know I too am very confused and frustrated with the charge of manslaughter. OOPS I accidentally put too much antifreeze in his cup, I only ment to make him really sick instead? Come on now! I don't buy it. Too much antifreeze and too little love doesn't justify manslaughter charges. It is Murder.

 

[Angel4u2Whisper2]

Premeditated manslaughter? She purchased or found antifreeze. She retrived or found his sippy cup. She made a combination of juice and antifreeze. She didn't retrive or find help for him when he suffered. Murder. It seems clear to me.

 

[Angel4u2Whisper2]

http://dastardlydads.blogspot.com/2010/03/stepmom-poisons-and-kills-21-month-old.html

snip:

The Monroe County Medical Examiner’s Office determined the cause of death as poisoning by methanol, a common ingredient in anti-freeze.

Police think Melissa Engelhardt put the toxic chemical in Andrew’s juice.

Captain Kain explains why Engelhardt's charged with manslaughter, not murder.

“You could intentionally poison somebody, but not mean to kill them and as a result from the poisoning he ended up dying,” Captain Kain said.
Engelhardt was in court Friday morning.


Say What?! She just says Opps my bad, and now its all better!!??:curses:

 

[Angel4u2Whisper2]

Bumping thread.

Let us not forget.

Justice for Andrew! raying:

A child who came to visit, it was a beautiful time as he must of lit up a room and brought so much joy to those who were blessed by his presence.. sadly he left too soon.

 

[kbl8201]

http://dastardlydads.blogspot.com/2010/03/stepmom-poisons-and-kills-21-month-old.html

snip:

The Monroe County Medical Examiner’s Office determined the cause of death as poisoning by methanol, a common ingredient in anti-freeze.

Police think Melissa Engelhardt put the toxic chemical in Andrew’s juice.

Captain Kain explains why Engelhardt's charged with manslaughter, not murder.

“You could intentionally poison somebody, but not mean to kill them and as a result from the poisoning he ended up dying,” Captain Kain said.
Engelhardt was in court Friday morning.


Say What?! She just says Opps my bad, and now its all better!!??:curses:

she didnt mean to kill him? i guess she thought that was just good nutritioin? :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

 

[Melanie]

I am going to withhold my opinion for now. I remember watching a program on tv where a baby boy died and his autopsy showed he'd died of antifreeze poisoning. Mommy went to prison. Gave birth to a 2nd child. 2nd child is in a foster home and begins displaying symptoms of antifreeze poisoning. Eventually, both children (the big brother who died, and baby brother who was displaying symptoms) were found to have a genetic defect which caused a condition that VERY CLOSELY mimicked antifreeze poisoning. His little brain showed crystalization that is common in antifreeze poisoning...... They even tested the baby's bottle and it showed signs of having contained antifreeze, but more sophisticated tests by a more experienced scientist showed that the substance in the bottle was NOT antifreeze, it was crystals formed from the baby's (I don't know how to describe this....) from the baby's backwash into the bottle. The crystals in his brain were also the result of a genetic defect.

It took a very long time for that mommy to prove that she had not killed her son. In fact, if her second child had not suffered from the same genetic defect, she'd probably STILL be in prison.

While it is very easy in today's world to believe that a step-mom would poison her step-child in a New York second, I just can't get that other case out of my mind. So I am going to withhold judgment, I am going to try to hope and pray this baby wasn't murdered. I am going to try to believe he had a genetic defect.

And, yeah, I know, what are the odds of that?

I saw that too -- very fascinating case. Lots of questions on this one -- did they confiscate anti-freeze? I always am curious when police say they "think" she put anti-freeze in the bottle.

I need a bit more before I can convict.

Best (oh, and MOO)

Mel

 

[kbl8201]

the antifreeze in the other case was found on the part of the baby bottle where he drank from (when they say it was in the bottle that is false information or an assumption) meaning it came from his mouth most likely.

think we can pretty much rule that out here, particuarly since it was only a cup and not a bottle.

and that thing about not intending to kill him......reminds me of a leno joke during oj's civil trial.

'o.j simpson today testified that he didnt kill nicole, 'i just made her bleed a little'

 

[reen]

http://dastardlydads.blogspot.com/2010/03/stepmom-poisons-and-kills-21-month-old.html

snip:

The Monroe County Medical Examiner’s Office determined the cause of death as poisoning by methanol, a common ingredient in anti-freeze.

Police think Melissa Engelhardt put the toxic chemical in Andrew’s juice.

Captain Kain explains why Engelhardt's charged with manslaughter, not murder.

“You could intentionally poison somebody, but not mean to kill them and as a result from the poisoning he ended up dying,” Captain Kain said.
Engelhardt was in court Friday morning.


Say What?! She just says Opps my bad, and now its all better!!??:curses:

Ummmm, yeah and you could intentionally shoot someone in the head and not mean to kill them too. What?!?

 

[Angel4u2Whisper2]

I saw that too -- very fascinating case. Lots of questions on this one -- did they confiscate anti-freeze? I always am curious when police say they "think" she put anti-freeze in the bottle.

I need a bit more before I can convict.

Best (oh, and MOO)

Mel

http://centralny.ynn.com/?ArID=498944

snip>

ELMIRA, N.Y. -- The case involving an Elmira woman accused of killing her 21-month-old stepson is headed to Chemung County Court.

Melissa Engelhardt, 24, appeared in Elmira City Court Tuesday and had her preliminary hearing waived. Police arrested Engelhardt last week, saying she poisoned her stepson back in November.

Engelhardt was originally charged with first degree manslaughter. Now the case will go before a grand jury in Chemung County to decide if any additional charges will be made against her.

"It could go either way. There's going to be an issue of intent. Her professed intent was that she did not want to kill the child but that simply wanted to make the child sick. Obviously, the way she attempted to do that was clearly very callous, very reckless and the child ended up dying because of it," said Chemung County Assistant District Attorney John Thweatt.

Thwett says the grand jury could potentially indict Engelhardt on a more serious charge, such as murder. He expects the case will be presented to the grand jury within the next three to four weeks


BBM
I think this may clear up a few things for those looking for more clarification regarding rather or not the antifreeze diagnosis was correct and explains by admission how it got into the babys system.

This also sheds some light (although it is a dim light, IMO, the comment made by Captain Kain as snipped below)


snip>
Captain Kain explains why Engelhardt's charged with manslaughter, not murder.

“You could intentionally poison somebody, but not mean to kill them and as a result from the poisoning he ended up dying,” Captain Kain said.
Engelhardt was in court Friday morning.



RIP Andrew

 

[Atomic]

About her Myspace survey, the question about believing in the death penalty, she answered YES in capitol letters. (lowercase for other answers) Ahem.

 

[Angel4u2Whisper2]

About her Myspace survey, the question about believing in the death penalty, she answered YES in capitol letters. (lowercase for other answers) Ahem.

Thats interesting, lets see if she has a change of heart now? :waitasec:

 

[Salem]

About her Myspace survey, the question about believing in the death penalty, she answered YES in capitol letters. (lowercase for other answers) Ahem.

Do you have a link to her myspace? Was it posted already and I missed it?

TIA,

Salem

ETA: Nevermind - I found it! Actually I had already read it, my brain must be on vacation this morning....

 

[dr dona]

So Sorry MrDA---It's fairly common knowledge that Antifreeze can kill if given in small amounts.. Also, this is an excruciatingly painful death ( remember Julie Jensen ) Also, as far as MMA those children have symptoms at an early. Also, many states, Iowa included, have screening for metabolic acidemias and other metabolic screens in their newborn SCREENING PANEL. This test is drawn on all newborns after 24 hrs of age and is sent to the state hygenic lab. Abnormalities if found are called to the physician within 3 to 5 days. Babies with MMA are placed on special formulas and are sent to metabolic specialists.
IMHO this lady should be charged with murder.