OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #52

[Merrygirl]

A foam cap or a foam cone is normally an indicator of an opiate overdose though it can simply be a result of gases exiting the body upon death.

Actually it could be caused by many things: seizures, drug overdose, dehydration, overproductive salivary glands, death, etc.

 

[Puzzles8]

They were clearly talking and laughing about the lady investigator. That is disrespectful, in my opinion.

I respectfully disagree.

If that is true, this attorney should be disbarred, in a hurry.

This high profile case is all of the defense attorneys potential "15 minutes of fame", their chance to become the next F Lee Bailey. They're not going to blow it.

Let's just agree to disagree. In the end we both agree on the fact that we both want justice for the Rhodens and Gilleys.

Peace

 

[Merrygirl]

More than a year ago, prior to the arrests in this case, I shared some of my thoughts as to the "foam" listed in HMR's mouth in her autopsy.

In HMR's postmortem exam on page 46 of her autopsy is the statement (loosely quoted) The mouth...small foam cap is at the lips.

This is not mentioned in any of the other victims' autopsies. At that time I offered a possible scenario for this finding, and I still believe it strongly to be the case------Yes, a foam cap can sometimes be seen after death if the deceased has opiates/opioids in their system at the time of death. My gut feeling on this is that because HMR delivered a baby only a few days before her death, she may have been taking a prescription medication that was given to her at the time of discharge to help control postpartum (post childbirth) pain. Now, this is only my my opinion--and this explanation probably wouldn't hold water if HMR was breastfeeding her little girl. But, there's no way for us to know if she was nursing the baby or bottle feeding her. If the full, c0mpletely unredacted autopsies are ever released to the general public, there might be information to clarify this in the ME's exam.

I am not a nurse or physician but have many, many years' experience as a medical transcripitionist. I'm sorry I don't know what thread my posts were in, but it was definitely between the time of the release of less-redacted autopsies and the time of the arrests.

The above information loosely quoting the presence of the foam cap can be found in the secondarily-issued autopsy report for HMR in the media/timeline--the autopsies that were issued not long before the arrests which are still redacted but not as bad as the first set released, on page 46 under the "general" heading of postmortem exam.

JMO

Edited by me for clarity

I am an RN, have worked in all specialties (Peds, OB, Med/Surg, critical care, ER, community and behavioral health fields) in my 44 yrs experience. The small foam cap is NOT a significant finding. It can be caused by live patients as well as deceased. I have seen it after seizures, drug over doses (not just opioids), electrolyte imbalances, over-active salivary gland or infected tonsils and dehydration. All it is is excess saliva mixing with oxygen and it may be enhanced if labored breathing. The only reason it was mentioned was because it is not normally seen but it’s not a big abnormality either. The coroner’s job is to describe the body parts in detail.

Postpartem mother’s are not typically given more than Extra Strength Tylenol or Tylenol #3 for pain. In rare instances they may be given low dose opioids like Percocet (other trade names are Percodan, Loricet, Lortabs, etc) but only if they had a huge vaginal tear or c-section. Opioids are NEVER given if breastfeeding.

 

[Sleuthinsleuther]

I am an RN, have worked in all specialties (Peds, OB, Med/Surg, critical care, ER, community and behavioral health fields) in my 44 yrs experience. The small foam cap is NOT a significant finding. It can be caused by live patients as we as deceased. I have seen it after seizures, drug over doses (not just opioids), electrolyte imbalances, over-active salivary gland or infected tonsils and dehydration. All it is is excess saliva mixing with oxygen and it may be enhanced if labored breathing. The only reason it was mentioned was because it is not normally seen but it’s not a big abnormality either. The coroner’s job is to describe the body parts in detail.

Postpartem mother’s are not typically given more than Extra Strength Tylenol or Tylenol #3 for pain. In rare instances they may be given low dose opioids like Percocet (other trade names are Percodan, Loricet, Lortabs, etc) but only if they had a huge vaginal tear or c-section. Opioids are NEVER given if breastfeeding.

Just morphine right

 

[Puzzles8]

I am an RN, have worked in all specialties (Peds, OB, Med/Surg, critical care, ER, community and behavioral health fields) in my 44 yrs experience. The small foam cap is NOT a significant finding. It can be caused by live patients as well as deceased. I have seen it after seizures, drug over doses (not just opioids), electrolyte imbalances, over-active salivary gland or infected tonsils and dehydration. All it is is excess saliva mixing with oxygen and it may be enhanced if labored breathing. The only reason it was mentioned was because it is not normally seen but it’s not a big abnormality either. The coroner’s job is to describe the body parts in detail.

Postpartem mother’s are not typically given more than Extra Strength Tylenol or Tylenol #3 for pain. In rare instances they may be given low dose opioids like Percocet (other trade names are Percodan, Loricet, Lortabs, etc) but only if they had a huge vaginal tear or c-section. Opioids are NEVER given if breastfeeding.

Thank you to everyone that has participated in the discussion of opioids. What has educated me are the vast discrepancies of doctors/pa's that can legally prescribe them. Not saying right or wrong, but it clearly points out the discrepancies in different areas.

 

[almond]

About Jake Wagner---
Remember this? Hope we find out about this at trial as there have been hints of this for 3 years
and 8 months!

Hummm....

"..As one example of the motions argued Tuesday, defense attorney Gregory Meyers asked the court not to allow the prosecution to mention his client’s alleged previous behavior during his murder trial.

“There is some evidence Mr. Wagner was violent with one of the victims prior to the murders,” said state Special Prosecutor Angela Canepa, seemingly indicating the prosecution wants to present that alleged incident as part of the case against Wagner.

Another defense motion, one which has been filed by other defendants in the murder cases, asked the court to bar prosecutors from using grisly or explicit photos from the murder scenes.

“Death is not pretty,” Canepa said, arguing that using possibly upsetting or explicit photos is likely to, unfortunately, prove necessary to the prosecution’s cases.."

POSTED ON OCTOBER 8, 2019 BY PORTSMOUTH DAILY TIMES

Past suspect behaviors, grisly murder scene photos may play parts in Rhoden trials - Portsmouth Daily Times

Nice one, CC!

 

[Johnny B Bad]

I'll be very surprised if GW4 ever says that. He just seems full of hate and Rage, IMO.

I agree with you, and I think we are going to here more crimes about Jake and George, IMO this is NOT THE FIRST TIME!

 

[Loomis124]

I respectfully disagree.

If that is true, this attorney should be disbarred, in a hurry.

This high profile case is all of the defense attorneys potential "15 minutes of fame", their chance to become the next F Lee Bailey. They're not going to blow it.

Let's just agree to disagree. In the end we both agree on the fact that we both want justice for the Rhodens and Gilleys.

Peace

Agree. Only ask one thing. That you view the video. I'll look back and find the short excerpt and post it.

 

[Puzzles8]

Agree. Only ask one thing. That you view the video. I'll look back and find the short excerpt and post it.

Thanks, ultimately we are all on the same team.

 

[Loomis124]

Thanks, ultimately we are all on the same team.

Yes. The video is posted by sunshineray on page 66, about the 4th post down. It happens at about 1:07 into the video immediately after the Judge introduces Jennifer Comisford.

She is a special investigator for BCI and the one who interviewed Jake's new wife. She also did 50+ audio interviews in this case if you look back in Discovery. All JMO

 

[Merrygirl]

From what I recall it was his wife that made that statement. I don’t recall JM ever saying anything about what he saw...

IIRC, one of the early video interviews of LM reported that he said he opened the door, saw DR’s legs and heard the baby crying. He didn’t want to see his niece like that (paraphrasing.). I don’t believe it was specific in where DR’s legs were when he saw them. Some speculated in her bed, others have said on the floor. I personally think she had been in the recliner to unwind after work by watching some tv and may have fallen asleep. I’m not sure where I got the idea other than that is what I probably would have done and that made sense to me. I have no links so JMOO.

 

[Puzzles8]

Yes. The video is posted by sunshineray on page 66, about the 4th post down. It happens at about 1:07 into the video immediately after the Judge introduces Jennifer Comisford.

She is a special investigator for BCI and the one who interviewed Jake's new wife. She also did 50+ audio interviews in this case if you look back in Discovery. All JMO

I will watch the video tomorrow.
Thanks for the constructive discussion!

 

[Puzzles8]

IIRC, one of the early video interviews of LM reported that he said he opened the door, saw DR’s legs and heard the baby crying. He didn’t want to see his niece like that (paraphrasing.). I don’t believe it was specific in where DR’s legs were when he saw them. Some speculated in her bed, others have said on the floor. I personally think she had been in the recliner to unwind after work by watching some tv and may have fallen asleep. I’m not sure where I got the idea other than that is what I probably would have done and that made sense to me. I have no links so JMOO.

Might you have meant JM?

 

[Dudly]

Might you have meant JM?

I think it was AM that said what JM did and saw at DR's house...MOO

 

[Loomis124]

I will watch the video tomorrow.
Thanks for the constructive discussion!

You're very welcome. I just try to honestly call it as I see it. Thank you, too.

 

[Merrygirl]

Sounded like the discovery coordinator is to organize the documentation and nomenclature of all the discovery, for all four defendants, to the benefit of all the attorneys (state & defense). According to GW3 attorney's request to the judge, it would improve discussion, because they could all "speak the same language" - makes sense to me.

Judge Deering requested cost estimates for the discovery coordinator to be submitted by January 30, 2020.

‘I hate to say this but my faith for either side just went down greatly. These are supposed to be PROFESSIONALS and they can’t keep their records straight? I’m used to having 32-50 patients’ charts “memorized” in detail so the doctors ask off-the-cuff questions during rounds and don’t want to hunt for the info themselves. Lol

 

[Merrygirl]

From what I have seen personally with my son and nephew, Ohio has little sympathy for the father's financial well being when it comes to set support amounts. In my nephew's case, they claimed he was in arrears for years when it was not possible, the support was taken from his pay before he saw it. When one daughter became ineligible for support, they did not reduce his support payment saying his income had increased. After they both were ineligible, the state still was demanding the arrears he owed.
With my son, he was still paying support for a daughter that was living with him for over a year. They refused to give him credit for her living with him. On top of that, she was still claiming that daughter as a dependent for taxes, WIC, and low income housing
even though she lived with her father.
A friend of mine had an employee that was taking home $25/week after mandatory deductions for support.

With no links to post, all this is my opinion only, I guess...

‘Lol, I know someone in his mid 70s who’s kids are nearly 50 but he still pays $25/week in child supports cuz he was in arrears.

 

[Betty P]

Actually it could be caused by many things: seizures, drug overdose, dehydration, overproductive salivary glands, death, etc.

Unfortunately, getting shot twice in the head at nearly point blank range causes your head, brain, central nervous and respiratory systems and upper body to do a lot of things. It's likely very gruesome, not something I'd want to dwell on unless absolutely necessary.

 

[Loomis124]

‘I hate to say this but my faith for either side just went down greatly. These are supposed to be PROFESSIONALS and they can’t keep their records straight? I’m used to having 32-50 patients’ charts “memorized” in detail so the doctors ask off-the-cuff questions during rounds and don’t want to hunt for the info themselves. Lol

They're lawyers and they don't have time. Lol

I worked in a lawyer's office once...

 

[Loomis124]

‘Lol, I know someone in his mid 70s who’s kids are nearly 50 but he still pays $25/week in child supports cuz he was in arrears.

That is ridiculous! Is it Ohio?