Plane carrying 72 passengers and 9 crew has crashed in Colombia

Discussion in 'Up to the Minute' started by gregjrichards, Nov 29, 2016.

  1. Blondie in Spokane

    Blondie in Spokane Well-Known Member

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    This is just so terribly sad. Fox News just played a video of the team celebrating their recent victory and they all looked so joyous and happy....and now most of them are dead. I feel awful for all those who lost their lives at such a young age, in their prime, and for all their families and friends left behind.

    Somewhere this morning I ran across a photo of the few players who were not on the flight - they were sitting in their locker room and looked absolutely stunned and so sorrowful. I'm so sorry this happened and pray for all involved in this sad, sad incident.
     


  2. Hatfield

    Hatfield Well-Known Member

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    Agree.

    Prayers for all family and friends of the people on board.
     
  3. FindHG

    FindHG *

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  4. CARIIS

    CARIIS Spelling Bee Winner - Kindergarden!

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    I desire to be kind and empathetic.

    This is a plane crash. The number of colomn inches devoted to the soocar team, is wrong.

    moo

    I felt the same way when the Voice lady was murdred. Pulse happened.

    There are lot of people that are deceased today.

    That desreves IMO, to be acknoledged and reported.

    Each of them have loved ones that want answers.

    That IMO is the ought to be the focus of this.

    I am not being disresptful here.

    For lack of a better word, there are lots of human being that are dead.

    We are all humans- despite different skill sets.

    I am finding this angering.

    As most of you know, I want info- solely as it relates to a jetliner crashing.

    WIth love and empathy for the team.

    Others were on there - media IMO needs to be reporting, like any other aviation disaster on that

    I hope I have not offended anyone.

    This is in imo, a CFIT accident


    -- "controlled flight into terrain"

    That is what this is

    We need to focus on what resulted in that occuring


    moo
     
  5. CARIIS

    CARIIS Spelling Bee Winner - Kindergarden!

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    There are really no "safe" seats. It depends on the accident sequence, g forces, and survivable space that occurs in the sequence.

    Physics.

    If you have a CFIT accident ( plane basically in control and nose hits- back of the plane ideally is best).

    It depends honestly on what stuck what when the sequence started - and where.

    How the G forces were distributed.

    If the tail impacts first, those people will have a different out come.

    In a fire sequence, those near the fuel tanks have a different outcome.

    all of this is only my opinion



    BUT it is a much poorer country , I think we , imo are going to end up with maintenance issues as it relates to $$

    From this picture , it looks as if we had a reasonably intact aircraft that basically belly flopped into terrain.

    That is typically associated with a stall- sorry it is not a pretty picture, think roller there is a awateness that you are falling.

    There is inabilty to breath (g forces), the noise is incredible. Like a whizzing that increasing on the way down.

    Ears are painful. You vomit . The seatbelts are diggin into your pelvis, it hurts.

    It is a aweful last moments

    You know.............................

    Sorry just telling it as it is.

    moo

    just mo
     
  6. Indy Anna

    Indy Anna Well-Known Member

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    I understand what you're saying, CARIIS, in re to the media's reporting. I had similar thoughts. I noticed in the selfie of the 2 soccer players an elderly woman sitting behind them. She is gone, too. :( So many have lost their lives and each one is important to someone. When a tragedy involves someone with celebrity status or of national/local significance, media focuses on that person/those people to draw interest by making the news more personal. In that respect, maybe it is a good thing. Condolences to all who have lost a loved one. May survivors heal quickly and completely.
     
  7. trigger

    trigger Well-Known Member

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    I rather see the Walking Dead then see people happy one minute and the dead the next. Its so sad those players won for their country and now they are gone. And Im sure more pictures will come out of other families soon.

    Goodbye 2016
     
  8. gregjrichards

    gregjrichards Well-Known Member

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  9. CARIIS

    CARIIS Spelling Bee Winner - Kindergarden!

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    ugly little thing!!

    [​IMG]

    hit the ground in an area near Rionegro, Colombia, about a 45-minute drive from Medellin, the plane's destination.

    "mayday" had been declared,

    If crew members became distracted during an emergency, perhaps as they completed a required checklist, they may have lost their situational awareness and allowed the airplane to descend too low for the terrain

    may also have been attempting to divert to the Rionegro airport as a result of their (as yet unknown) emergency situation but became overwhelmed

    the weather itself could have caused problems with controlling the aircraft if the flight was flown into an area of severe turbulence from thunderstorms.
    Another possible factor: Pilots flying for charter operations are sometimes lower on the experience scale .

    the less experienced pilot often accepts employment with a lower-paying operation as a pseudo-internship to log flight hours and climb the stairs up to a job with the major airlines.

    large pieces of the airplane are visible, it appears the impact with the ground may have been at a lower speed

    survivors were found among the wreckage is further evidence the airplane may have been flying slower

    ]http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/29/opinions/colombia-plane-crash-cause-abend/index.html[/video]

    Lack of fire meaningful.

    Def looks like a nose up belly flop

    [​IMG]


    short take-off and landing capability

    engines lack thrust reversers due to their perceived reduced effectiveness in anticipated conditions. Instead, the BAe 146 features a large airbrake with two petals below the tail rudder at the rear of the fuselage

    renowned for its relatively quiet operation,

    undercarriage of the aircraft is toughened to resist damage and stability is maximised by the placement of landing gear, of particular value when operating from rough airstrips.[SUP][1]

    [/SUP]. Deliveries of the RJ85 began in April 1993. The RJ85 seats up to 112 passengers

    Firefighting air tanker versions of both the BAe 146 and the Avro RJ85 have been manufactured via the conversion of aircraft previously operated by airlines.[SUP][

    [/SUP]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Aerospace_146

    google images

    [​IMG]







     
  10. CARIIS

    CARIIS Spelling Bee Winner - Kindergarden!

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    [FONT=&quot]lost radar contact just before 10 p.m. Monday (

    [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Colombian officials initially said the plane suffered an electrical failure but there was also heavy rainfall at the time of the crash. Authorities also said they were not ruling out the possibility, relayed to rescuers by a surviving flight attendant, that the plane ran out of fuel minutes before its scheduled landing at Jose Maria Cordova airport outside Medellin.

    [/FONT][FONT=&quot] bodies scattered across a muddy mountainside were collected into white bags. They were then loaded onto several Black Hawk helicopters that had to perform a tricky maneuver to land on the crest of the Andes mountains.

    [/FONT][FONT=&quot]owned by LaMia, a charter company that started off in Venezuela but later relocated to Bolivia, where it was certified to operate last January.

    [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Before being taken offline, LaMia’s website said it operated three 146 Avro short-haul jets

    [/FONT][FONT=&quot]He noted that the air distance between cities is usually measured by the shortest route but planes rarely fly in a straight line — pilots may steer around turbulence or change course for other reasons.

    [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Given the model of the plane and that it was flying close to capacity, “I would be concerned that the pilots may have been cutting it too close,”

    [/FONT]http://www.denverpost.com/2016/11/28/colombia-plane-crash-chapecoense-soccer-brazil/


    An image released by the

    [FONT=&quot] bodies scattered across a muddy mountainside were collected into white bags. They were then loaded onto several Black Hawk helicopters that had to perform a tricky maneuver to land on the crest of the Andes mountains.


    Colombian police of the crash site.[/FONT]
    Colombian police.
     
  11. Meryl12

    Meryl12 Active Member

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  12. AlwaysShocked

    AlwaysShocked Well-Known Member

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    Hard to believe but there have been a few crashes in the past that I've read about where the plane was out of fuel. And not from deliberately dumping it.

    Of the many theories about Amelia Earhart's disappearance, her plane running out of fuel and her attempting to land into the ocean is one of the top theories.
     
  13. Snoods

    Snoods Flounciest Faux Former Member

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    So very sorry for the many lives lost and for their families.

    I can't imagine the emotions of finding out your loved one was one of only six who survived. The incredible relief and joy they feel, yet also guilt as so many others close to them are suffering such painful losses.


    [​IMG]

    Survivors from left: Flight technichian Erwin Tumiri, journalist Rafael Henzel, team reserve goalkeeper Jackson Follmann. Erwin Tumiri is listed in stable condition. Rafael Henzel is reported to be doing fine. Jackson Follmann has had a leg amputated.


    [​IMG]

    Flight attendant Ximena Suarez Otterburg, team defender Alan Ruschel. Alan Ruschel has suffered a spinal fracture. Ximena Otterburg is listed in stable condition.


    [​IMG]

    Helio Zampier Neto, team defender. He is listed in stable condition with chest and skull injuries.


    [​IMG]

    Team goalkeeper Marcos Danilo Padilha, 31, pictured with his wife, initially survived the crash. He spoke to his wife by phone from his hospital bed, only to die from his injuries a short time later.


    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/brazilian-...ash-six-survivors-found-amid-wreckage-1593943
    http://www.ole.com.ar/futbol-internacional/sacaron-Neto_0_1696030545.html
    https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/3336075...al-call-to-wife-moments-before-he-died/#page1
    http://www.ksfy.com/content/news/76-people-killed-in-Colombian-plane-crash-403541916.html
     
  14. CARIIS

    CARIIS Spelling Bee Winner - Kindergarden!

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    goalkeeper Jakson Follmann's leg amputated - AP

    How sad

    [h=2]20 journalists among those killed in plane crash near Medellin - AP


    [/h][h=2]4 listed in manifest did not travel - @Policiantioquia
    [/h]
     
  15. Snoods

    Snoods Flounciest Faux Former Member

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    I'm also curious about where the survivors were seated. Marcos and Alan were seated together in gray seats. The seats to the left and right of them are blue, as seen on video taken on the flight. Marcos survived the crash but later died in the hospital. Alan survived with a spinal fracture. I would be willing to bet they were seated near the wings.

    The two crew members and the journalist survived with the least amount of injuries. I would imagine the crew members were seated in the rear of the plane as they were landing, but from media reports the tail was destroyed. Odd. Perhaps they were in the cockpit (Edwin was a flight tech)?


    [​IMG]

    Marcos Padilha, left, and Alan Ruschel.


    [​IMG]

    Blue seats to the left (from video).


    [​IMG]

    Blue seats to the right (from video).


    [​IMG]


    Reported last picture of the soccer team and support staff before takeoff. Where are the gray seats? Am I crazy?


    https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/3336075...al-call-to-wife-moments-before-he-died/#page1
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...l-declares-three-days-of-mourning-chapecoense
    http://hollywoodlife.com/2016/11/29/chapecoense-final-video-brazilian-soccer-team-plane-crash-watch/
     
  16. emirates1957

    emirates1957 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Greg.....noticed this last night and was waiting for something to appear on WB's. However looking at a brief picture of the cabin prior to take off it appears to be predominately male. Certainly hope their weight and balance was correct. This could have been a quite heavy aircraft combine that with minimum fuel, terrain and night flying could end in disaster. I have problems copy and pasting .... is there any way a copy of the trim sheet could be obtained (I know that's a long shot)???
     
  17. Snoods

    Snoods Flounciest Faux Former Member

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    I believe one of the four was the coach's son, who wasn't able to board the plane because he forgot his passport. His father, Caio Junior, was killed.

    [​IMG]

    Matheus with his father, Caio.


    https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/foot...nior-escapes-death-after-forgetting-passport/


    @emirates1957 :seeya: I was hoping to see you here, looking forward to your input.
     
  18. emirates1957

    emirates1957 Well-Known Member

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    Still catching up on this so exuse my ignorance if this has already been covered. Headlines never cease to amaze me, they can't have it both ways, lack of fuel and or electrical problem. If they were so close to the airport and had thunderies in the area you would want sufficient fuel in order to go around, or return to an alternate....no reason do dump as you would have already used your max fuel in order for a min fuel landing. If they had taken off had let's say had a severe electrical failure they would need to dump fuel and return to the originating airport. It would be interesting to get a dummy Trim Sheet to be able to ascertain the weights of an high male pax count on board this type of equipment.
     
  19. Tulessa

    Tulessa Well-Known Member

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    Thank you Greg.
     
  20. Snoods

    Snoods Flounciest Faux Former Member

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    [​IMG]

    Marcos and Alan


    [​IMG]

    Alan and Jakson

    So apparently survivor Jakson Follmann was seated next to survivor Alan Ruschel, who was seated next to Marcos, who died at the hospital.
     

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