Shannan Gilbert Found, death declared an accident. What do you think?

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Seaslug44

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I was thinking today about coincidences and how much we should be willing to accept. I think the greatest frustration with SG's case lies in the theory presented by the police that her death was an accident that coincidentally led to the accidental discovery of other dead prostitutes.

Then I was thinking how the rational thought process can be distorted by the fact that these were prostitutes.

This got me thinking...

Hypotheotically, imagine a scenario where a drug dealer feared for his life so much that it motivated him to call 911 while with a client in the middle of a drug deal to tell the police that someone was trying to kill him. Then imagine during the search for the missing drug dealer, the police discover the remains of five other known drug dealers and five other victims all in the same area where they eventually would find the original drug dealer dead.

Would you believe that it was just a coincidence and that the original drug dealer died from accidental drowning?
 

WINDSOR

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Seaslug44,

I think you are onto something about how society in general and LE specifically view women who are prostitutes. It is really an injustice that, as you have exemplified, they are even viewed lower than drug dealers.

So next time somebody says prostitution is a victim-less crime, remind them that the women (primarily) are the victims, and in Long Island lays the proof.

I also believe if SG was the local librarian and disappeared after being at a dinner party at JB's; the investigation would had been at a different pace.

MOO
 

Seaslug44

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Seaslug44,

I think you are onto something about how society in general and LE specifically view women who are prostitutes. It is really an injustice that, as you have exemplified, they are even viewed lower than drug dealers.

So next time somebody says prostitution is a victim-less crime, remind them that the women (primarily) are the victims, and in Long Island lays the proof.

I also believe if SG was the local librarian and disappeared after being at a dinner party at JB's; the investigation would had been at a different pace.

MOO

Thank you. I agree it is incredibly sad.

Imagine if SG was a librarian. And her disappearance led to the discovery of the remains of four other missing librarians in the area she went missing plus the partial remains of a librarian whose torso was discovered at a different location several years earlier. Even before SG's remains were found there would have been no doubt in anyone's mind that SG was also killed by the same serial killer.
 

Aleph

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I wonder if LE hasn't released Shannan's remains and autopsy report because they don't trust Shannan's family to keep secrets pertaining to the case.

Mari Gilbert has been very outspoken in her criticism of law enforcement. I think she is totally justified and, if not for her, this case wouldn't have gotten half the attention it has, but I wouldn't be surprised if the relationship between her and law enforcement has broken down.

This is all speculation on my part, though if I'm right, it would mean that Shannan didn't drown.
 

WINDSOR

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Aleph,

I am not sure that Shannan's family ability to keep a secret is why the results are taking so long.

Rather I think there is a total absence of forensic evidence which is causing LE to double and triple check, hopefully to find some sort of evidence.

Alternatively they have found lots of forensic evidence and/or contradictory and /or ambiguous forensic evidence. Because this case has become so high profile LE will not release anything that they are sure is accurate and exact.

MOO.
 

Aleph

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Aleph,

I am not sure that Shannan's family ability to keep a secret is why the results are taking so long.

RSBM.

I just want to clarify -- I think Shannan's family is more than capable of keeping a secret or doing anything else that needs doing, for that matter. But I think when it comes to their relationship with LE, trust has broken down on both sides.

My own opinion, based purely on speculation.
 

Thirteen

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I know this isn't a popular opinion but it was my belief from day one that SG had a bad drug reaction and ran into the brush to escape an imagined danger. She did exactly what Jeremy Alex did after having a bad drug reaction. I have seen this reaction in at least 3 cases of drug use. Jeremy Alex is still missing but if you look into his case the similarities between him and SG are just uncanny. Anyhow I am hoping they can get a toxicology report from SG's bone marrow and we will all know for sure then.

I think the main question is was SG killed by LISK? IMO no. Her actions though combined with the bodies sent everyone down that road. I think we should still hold someone accountable for SG's death. IMO this substance was injected and most people don't inject themselves. So wouldn't the person administering the drug be charged with manslaughter? There were just too many people around for me to see this as a LISK killing.

Another thing I noticed was when she ran into neighbor Gustav Coletti she asked for help but then appeared to fear him. Thats just not rational. If you look at where her remains were found vs her items you can see she was moving away from the area that the police officer would have shown up at. I am guessing he used a spotlight, that probably scared the heck out of her and thats why the items and jeans were discarded so quickly.

So as he spotlights that area shes running away from that light, away from the bad guys trying to get her. Anyhow thats my take on it. We will all know so much more if and when the toxicology report gets released.
 

scandi

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I know this isn't a popular opinion but it was my belief from day one that SG had a bad drug reaction and ran into the brush to escape an imagined danger. She did exactly what Jeremy Alex did after having a bad drug reaction. I have seen this reaction in at least 3 cases of drug use. Jeremy Alex is still missing but if you look into his case the similarities between him and SG are just uncanny. Anyhow I am hoping they can get a toxicology report from SG's bone marrow and we will all know for sure then.

I think the main question is was SG killed by LISK? IMO no. Her actions though combined with the bodies sent everyone down that road. I think we should still hold someone accountable for SG's death. IMO this substance was injected and most people don't inject themselves. So wouldn't the person administering the drug be charged with manslaughter? There were just too many people around for me to see this as a LISK killing.

Another thing I noticed was when she ran into neighbor Gustav Coletti she asked for help but then appeared to fear him. Thats just not rational. If you look at where her remains were found vs her items you can see she was moving away from the area that the police officer would have shown up at. I am guessing he used a spotlight, that probably scared the heck out of her and thats why the items and jeans were discarded so quickly.

So as he spotlights that area shes running away from that light, away from the bad guys trying to get her. Anyhow thats my take on it. We will all know so much more if and when the toxicology report gets released.

Very interesting Thirteen, I have read posters state there was a helicopter searching overhead that did not spot her items on the ground where they were found later. This was timely on earlier searches after she went missing.

I had never thought of a spotlight. Very good tho! It could be one of those things LE would keep from the public. Maybe some neighbors saw a spotlight and there were no police in the area at that time, just sayin'.


ETA: Just re-reading your post this sentence made me sit up real straight! "There were just too many people around for me to see this as a LISK killing. I don't think I have read that thought anywhere. Makes sense for sure.
 

the quiet girl

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I know this isn't a popular opinion but it was my belief from day one that SG had a bad drug reaction and ran into the brush to escape an imagined danger. She did exactly what Jeremy Alex did after having a bad drug reaction. I have seen this reaction in at least 3 cases of drug use. Jeremy Alex is still missing but if you look into his case the similarities between him and SG are just uncanny. Anyhow I am hoping they can get a toxicology report from SG's bone marrow and we will all know for sure then.

I think the main question is was SG killed by LISK? IMO no. Her actions though combined with the bodies sent everyone down that road. I think we should still hold someone accountable for SG's death. IMO this substance was injected and most people don't inject themselves. So wouldn't the person administering the drug be charged with manslaughter? There were just too many people around for me to see this as a LISK killing.

Another thing I noticed was when she ran into neighbor Gustav Coletti she asked for help but then appeared to fear him. Thats just not rational. If you look at where her remains were found vs her items you can see she was moving away from the area that the police officer would have shown up at. I am guessing he used a spotlight, that probably scared the heck out of her and thats why the items and jeans were discarded so quickly.

So as he spotlights that area shes running away from that light, away from the bad guys trying to get her. Anyhow thats my take on it. We will all know so much more if and when the toxicology report gets released.


Interesting 1st and only post let me direct you to this post and the rest after as my response.
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7734663#post7734663"]If In Fact Shannan Gilbert was Drugged, this would be the perfect choice - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
 

Samantha Spade

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LINative13 posted, "JB has been SG's client more than once. "

LINative13, Now if that is true it would certainly make more sense. I can't believe that Shannan and her driver would haul on down there to the south shore to see a "client" they didn't know. And what "client" is going to wait that long when there are plenty of other beautiful escorts a lot closer and could get there a lot faster? Hey, maybe it happens, but I just find that questionable.
 

the quiet girl

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LINative13 posted, "JB has been SG's client more than once. "

LINative13, Now if that is true it would certainly make more sense. I can't believe that Shannan and her driver would haul on down there to the south shore to see a "client" they didn't know. And what "client" is going to wait that long when there are plenty of other beautiful escorts a lot closer and could get there a lot faster? Hey, maybe it happens, but I just find that questionable.

You know regardless of that post it is very interesting that he did have to wait. There are plenty of escorts out and about I am sure a lot closer.
 

Samantha Spade

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The Quiet Girl posted, "You know regardless of that post it is very interesting that he did have to wait. There are plenty of escorts out and about I am sure a lot closer."

Right Quiet Girl?! Now I'm not into cocaine and escorts, but I have my vices too, and when the mood hits me for chocolate I'm going to the nearest store to get me a chocolate bar, unless I am certain that a store much farther away has much better bars because I've tasted them before. When you have an addiction, you want your drug of choice sooner than later. Sorry, but that's the best analogy I could come up with.
 

LINative13

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Or you go grab some pretty good chocalate so you have something to snack on while you drive to get your really good chocalate.
 

Samantha Spade

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LINative13 posted: "Or you go grab some pretty good chocalate so you have something to snack on while you drive to get your really good chocalate. "

Oh yeah. Now we're talking.
So did you happen to hear from your source if there were other girls at Brewer's that night?
 

Samantha Spade

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Thanks LINative13,
I will refrain from pushing you for anymore info. My bad.
I have to be good, or I start seeing little green martians.
 

WINDSOR

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LINative13 posted, "JB has been SG's client more than once. "

LINative13, Now if that is true it would certainly make more sense. I can't believe that Shannan and her driver would haul on down there to the south shore to see a "client" they didn't know. And what "client" is going to wait that long when there are plenty of other beautiful escorts a lot closer and could get there a lot faster? Hey, maybe it happens, but I just find that questionable.

Samatha Spade and LINative13; If it has been disclosed/confirmed that JB was SG's client more than once this is news to me.

If it is true, is changes a number of my assumptions.

I always believed the SK, had a number of liaisons with an escort before killing her; he used this method to build trust even so they would not bring their cellphone.

Once SG became scared at JB's home and called 911; JB wanted nothing to do with her and told MP to get her out of his home.

If JB and MP had a 'business relationship' of some sort there could have been an understanding between MP and JB to ensure SG was not going to speak to anybody about what she saw or heard at JB's house.

If SG was aware of some sort of collusion between MP and JB it now makes perfect sense why SG refused to get in the vehicle with MP.

I am making a big leap here in implying MP is in collusion with JB, but stranger things have happened in real life.

This all seems pretty unbelievable but so is the whole case with all the missing persons then found skeletons.

If JB was a multiple time client of JB, were any of other the dead girls providers for JB.

Alternatively did MP serve as a driver for any of the other girls?

If MP and JB were in collusion it explains why JB waited for an out-of-town girl, instead of a local.

MOO
 

Seaslug44

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Thank you everyone for getting into this line of thinking because it made me realize something that has been staring at all of us in the face all along...

JB found SG's advertisement that evening on the website Backpage.com. Backpage is structured exactly like Craigslist.com in that there are different editions for every geographic area. Each geographic area actually has it's own landing page.

It doesn't matter if you are hunting for garage sales, motorcycle parts, a cleaning service or an escort, if someone is looking for a service on Long Island they would visit the Long Island landing page to start their search;

longisland.backpage.com for Long Island or newyork.backpage.com for NYC.

The same is true for craigslist.com;

longisland.craigslist.com versus newyork.craigslist.com

Even if a person starts their search at backpage.com or craigslist.com, those main webpages are for the entire Country. The moment a person clicks on their geographic area they are brought to their local landing pages that display only their local advertisements.

It is interesting to note that no matter what category you click on, you cannot find ads for local services or local goods-for-sale that are advertised in more than one geographic location.

So...

The big question (thanks to your discussion on why JB would wait) is why on Earth was JB calling ads for NYC escorts instead of ads for Long Island escorts???

Think about it.

With dozens of ads for escorts advertising in the Long Island edition of both websites why skip calling those who you know are already in the area and ready to provide him a service in exchange for calling ads for for escorts who are working out of his area that evening?

Why would JB choose NYC instead of Long Island as his local area when conducting the search?

What are the odds that someone like JB would do that?

And speaking of odds; how many calls to escorts advertising that they were working in NYC that evening did it take for him to find one (SG) who was willing to abandon one of the busiest cities in the world to drive almost an hour to the middle of no where for one client?

Are we to believe this?
 

Aleph

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It's unlikely that JB had hired Shannan previously. He has told the media that her photo had been misrepresentational and he didn't like her looks.
 

fieldnotes

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Hey guys this is Jim Jones and when I interviewed GC (Sunday With Gus)he said that when MP drove down to him looking for Shannan, MP said that he and Shannan had been partying at JB's etc etc. But what I found interesting was that it sounded like from the way GC described it to me that MP used JB's last name. This didn't really dawn on me as i was doing the actual interview but I wondered about it later. So next time I saw GC at the Dec 13 vigil I asked him specifically if MP used JB's last name. And he replied with an adamant YES. This kinda makes me think that maybe JB and MP did have some kinda relationship. I mean what's the chances MP would know JB's last name on a first encounter? I guess it's possible but seems unlikely IMO.
 

Seaslug44

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Hey guys this is Jim Jones and when I interviewed GC (Sunday With Gus)he said that when MP drove down to him looking for Shannan, MP said that he and Shannan had been partying at JB's etc etc. But what I found interesting was that it sounded like from the way GC described it to me that MP used JB's last name. This didn't really dawn on me as i was doing the actual interview but I wondered about it later. So next time I saw GC at the Dec 13 vigil I asked him specifically if MP used JB's last name. And he replied with an adamant YES. This kinda makes me think that maybe JB and MP did have some kinda relationship. I mean what's the chances MP would know JB's last name on a first encounter? I guess it's possible but seems unlikely IMO.

:Welcome1:

Jim Jones, Welcome, Welcome, WELCOME! Hope you stick around. Your input will be greatly appreciated.
 
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