The SODDI Defense (Some Other Dude Did It)...If not KC, who?

[songline]

LE goes where the leads take them. Casey led them to her all by herself with no help from anyone else.

She was the last person to see Caylee alive and she gave them a phony name and location for where she dropped off Caylee. Given that, why would they look any further. It's up to the defense to find the SOD. The body was found in trash bags that are similar to ones in the Anthony household, in a hamper bag identical to one at the Anthony house ANDE in a location where KC used to bury her dead pets. There is absolutely NOTHING that would lead them away from KC - certainalyl NO invisible nanny

You are right there is a huge BS story going on. No invisible Nanny, and lots of running LE arround.
I still say that IMO the Foundation is a camophlage for a money trail. I hope there will be a lose string somewhere.
The fact that Caylee became deleted in all this seems to fit some plan in my minds eye to conceal,There must be some reason.
If they talk Caylee they have to also talk about why they did not go running all over town to look for her. If it will result in a movie script so be it.
I do not know how con man think - I like to operate with ethics, but I had been very keen in sniffing them out in the past during my own life. I am just saying that just because KC is Full of BS and is acting like a hard ding bat, and her family has no moral code does not mean that an investigation about other possibilities is not important.
Hope she gets a great lawyer tomorrow, I think I see some delays coming up so he can be up to speed.
I hope he can study fast, so it moves along....

 

[Balthazar]

KC seems more a victimizer than a victim.

She uses people, including her various squeezes, then moves on.

Wait...didn't Casey's friends say that Casey would get serious with a guy hard and fast and the guy would freak and dump her?

Didn't JG say that Cindy lit into Casey right in front of him so badly he felt he had to defend her and ask Cindy not to say those things to the woman he loved?

I've read evidence of Casey behaving both as a victimizer and as a victim. She's both in my opinion.

 

[Balthazar]

You make a lot of sense.

There have been some very strange child disappearances. Elizabeth Smart and Haleigh come to mind.

But, I have never seen a case where the movements of the defendant could be tracked almost down to the minute and the grieving mother was videotaped right after the victim's death arm-in-arm with her new boyfriend picking out videos. Or where there was such a clear trail (dead body fluid & decomposing hair in the trunk, lying to LE etc.). Or where the alibi (fake nanny) was such a stretch.

I also have to say that despite how bad Casey was at pulling off her crimes, she is also too obviously together, articulate and aware to pull off an insanity defense.

What the prosecutors have shown us, so far, pointing right to Casey is strong stuff. Casey started out presenting her side with a lot of lies. Her parents aren't gathering Casey any sympathy. Casey's lead attorney is being investigated by the bar association for telling his ex-PI to leave Caylee out in the woods.

Neither Casey nor her family nor her attorney have given the public a lot of reason to believe in them instead of the State of Florida.

IMO

Yes, all of that is true - although I would say the Cullen Davis murders actually had a stronger case because two of the intended victims witnessed one of the murders, knew Cullen very well and actually identified Cullen as the murderer - and yet he got off scot free, declared not guilty.

At any rate, we are trying to figure out what the Defense is going to say in Casey's case - doesn't matter if it is true or not. We are trying to determine what the SODDI case might be.

 

[MissJames]

Yell at me if you want (lol) but as I posted before I do not understand why this wouldn't work? Here goes.... Why not say it was ZFG? KC lied about her great job, great life, etc., so isn't plausible she lied about the great nanny as well? Maybe the nanny wasn't so great.

Here's what I think the defense "script" is.....

-ZFG was homeless and probably an illegal immigrant. (This is why ZFG cannot be found)
-KC met ZFG at Blanchford Park.
-KC never bonded with Caylee as Cindy immediately took on the role of Caylee's mother. (This is why KC never cared that Caylee was gone for 31 days)
-KC couldn't pay ZFG so let her drive her car around. (ZFG had access to the car).

She lied about everything because she didn't want anyone to know that she was letting a homeless woman watch Caylee. This homeless woman didn't like the fact that KC had the "perfect life" per KC's lies. She gets her back by kidnapping Caylee. She doesn't realize that she is not getting KC back because the real KC never bonded with Caylee and is relieved she is gone.

I have posted this before and I think as a juror this might leave reasonable doubt in my mind?

I'm sure a bunch of holes can punched in this story,but it scares me at how possible that scenario could be.
Yours is the first one I've heard that could possibly fill in some blanks.

 

[Verité]

. . .KC had to go out on a limb and create so many other players in this case (i.e., ZFG's mother, sisters, roommates, her car, her hair straightener, etc.).
KC's mouth is what is going to be her demise imo.

I think she knows that. . .but just mistakenly put the duct tape on the wrong mouth.

 

[MissJames]

Caylee's whereabouts can be accounted for during most of her 2-1/2 year old life, except for the 31 days that she went missing. If CA & GA weren't taking care of her, then the Grunds were. I believe there was another friend who used to keep her when she was an infant (Christine?) The few times KC told CA the nanny was taking care of Caylee, there are people who said they saw Caylee with KC and/or she was really at someone's apartment or asleep on the couch during a party, on the balcony or in another room. Like the nights she would tell CA she and Caylee were spending the night with the nanny, she was really at RM's apartment.

As for your scenario of a homeless woman, with the sort of upbringing KC had at home with everything spotless and being the doting mother all her friends say she was, can you imagine her leaving her child with a homeless woman? There certainly would be h3ll to pay is CA ever found out about it.

Also, yes, if ZFG was an illegal and left the U.S. after Caylee was murdered, this might fly. However, KC had to go out on a limb and create so many other players in this case (i.e., ZFG's mother, sisters, roommates, her car, her hair straightener, etc.). KC's mouth is what is going to be her demise imo.

I'm just playing devil advocates here because I think KC did it,but.....
All the times KC said she was going to work and taking Caylee to the nanny's ????We assume KC had her,but we really don't know.KC came up with the nanny story when Rev. Grund said they couldn't keep watching her.
Those are times that can't really be accounted for.

 

[Balthazar]

This is a theory, nothing in it is fact (that I know of)

Casey knows who Caylees daddy is!

...

Snipped for space.

What an awesome theory! I think this would make quite an exciting book or movie! Could it be true - absolutely no idea, but I think it is a very clever story!

 

[MissJames]

Yes, all of that is true - although I would say the Cullen Davis murders actually had a stronger case because two of the intended victims witnessed one of the murders, new Cullen very well and actually identified Cullen as the murderer - and yet he got off scot free, declared not guilty.

At any rate, we are trying to figure out what the Defense is going to say in Casey's case - doesn't matter if it is true or not. We are trying to determine what the SODDI case might be.

The thread was actually started with PM asking those who weren't yet convinced it was KC, who else the they believed the evidence led to.If you read the 1st post there is no mention of defense theory,although the thread may have evolved into that.I think some of us are still working off the the original question,"If not KC,who?"

 

[Balthazar]

Yell at me if you want (lol) but as I posted before I do not understand why this wouldn't work? Here goes.... Why not say it was ZFG? KC lied about her great job, great life, etc., so isn't plausible she lied about the great nanny as well? Maybe the nanny wasn't so great.

Here's what I think the defense "script" is.....

-ZFG was homeless and probably an illegal immigrant. (This is why ZFG cannot be found)
-KC met ZFG at Blanchford Park.
-KC never bonded with Caylee as Cindy immediately took on the role of Caylee's mother. (This is why KC never cared that Caylee was gone for 31 days)
-KC couldn't pay ZFG so let her drive her car around. (ZFG had access to the car).

She lied about everything because she didn't want anyone to know that she was letting a homeless woman watch Caylee. This homeless woman didn't like the fact that KC had the "perfect life" per KC's lies. She gets her back by kidnapping Caylee. She doesn't realize that she is not getting KC back because the real KC never bonded with Caylee and is relieved she is gone.

I have posted this before and I think as a juror this might leave reasonable doubt in my mind?

Another very clever theory.

 

[songline]

I think she knows that. . .but just mistakenly put the duct tape on the wrong mouth.

:blowkiss:
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

[Balthazar]

The thread was actually started with PM asking those who weren't yet convinced it was KC, who else the they believed the evidence led to.If you read the 1st post there is no mention of defense theory,although the thread may have evolved into that.I think some of us are still working off the the original question,"If not KC,who?"

I think the questions are one and the same: If not Casey, then who? That leads to what the defense will say. And I think this subject is better discussed based on what the defense will say vs. arguing guilty or innocent. Arguments of guilt vs. innocence is where threads similar to this one have gotten off-track in the past and turned into free-for-alls resulting in the threads being shut down. We are trying to have a nice thread here where anyone can feel safe to propose a SOD theory regardless of their personal beliefs about the case and then we discuss each SOD theory and attempt to poke holes in it without any personal attacks. This way, it doesn't get emotional. By sticking to this, we've been able to keep this thread going longer than any other SOD thread. It is fine to work off the original question if you prefer.

 

[Pattymarie]

Another very clever theory.

Good theory....but how does this explain the dynamics between Casey and Cindy? What about the fight Father's Day night? What about George lying the next morning? Why would he do this in this theory?

 

[MarleneM]

Here's what I think the defense "script" is.....

-ZFG was homeless and probably an illegal immigrant. (This is why ZFG cannot be found)
-KC met ZFG at Blanchford Park.
-KC never bonded with Caylee as Cindy immediately took on the role of Caylee's mother. (This is why KC never cared that Caylee was gone for 31 days)
-KC couldn't pay ZFG so let her drive her car around. (ZFG had access to the car).

She lied about everything because she didn't want anyone to know that she was letting a homeless woman watch Caylee. This homeless woman didn't like the fact that KC had the "perfect life" per KC's lies. She gets her back by kidnapping Caylee. She doesn't realize that she is not getting KC back because the real KC never bonded with Caylee and is relieved she is gone.

I have posted this before and I think as a juror this might leave reasonable doubt in my mind?

KC managed to befriend a homeless chick in-between all of her other party friends (with cars and homes) and would drop her baby off...where? Are you suggesting JBP? In your theory is this homeless person sleeping in the bushes at the park? And if she can't afford rent, how did she manage a cell phone? Or do you suppose "she" just used a favorite phone booth? Either way, illegal immigrant or not, how would KC coordinate with this homeless person when and where she needed to meet with her to "watch Caylee"? How would a homeless person afford the food and diapers for a toddler if "she" gets KC back by kidnapping Caylee?

Also, why would KC lend her car to a homeless uninsured, unlicensed, illegal immigrant (with Caylee inside)? Wasn't the whole point of dumping Caylee off on anyone who would take her about giving KC the freedom she wanted to drive around bugging her friends who actually did have schedules to follow? If she hands her car over to a homeless immigrant, how is KC going to get to where she's going next without anyone seeing ZFG?

And if this homeless ZFG had any custody of KC's car, why was KC covering up the smell of Caylee's decomposition by telling friends GA ran over some squirrels (couldn't even blame herself on that one )? How would a homeless ZFG give KC her car without Caylee - then a few days later that car wreaks of death, and - oh Yeah! - KC hasn't seen her baby since she handed her over to that homeless chick?

What was the date of KC's texts about squirrels? When did KC dump the car at Amscot? WHEN was 911 eventually called in by CA? - Yeah, I don't think there's anyway the defense could convince me with this theory that KC didn't know Caylee was dead through her negligence. Imo, KC knew, she did it and she partied on.

 

[USARDOG]

Try as we might, it would appear that so far, no one has been able to come up with a SOD defense that fits, even a poor fit. Problem is compound, KC's mouth, and a very good time line with locations because of her cell phone.

 

[Balthazar]

KC managed to befriend a homeless chick in-between all of her other party friends (with cars and homes) and would drop her baby off...where? ...

edited for space

Your questions brought a lot of thoughts to my mind. When I was in my late 20's I worked for a large corporation in a downtown area and there was a homeless man that my office "befriended." We would bring him cups of coffee and give him lunch or free donuts sometimes. He generally would hang around in front of the building at the times he thought one of us might be coming out. One hot day, I ran into him in Woolworths and bought him a ice cream sandwich. So, yes, it is possible for people from nice backgrounds to be repeatedly in touch with homeless people - no cell phone required. Yes, the homeless man we helped was very dirty and mentally ill (he sometimes talked to himself and answered - we'd avoid him when he was having one of those episodes) but we tried to help him as much as we could and this went on for over 7 years until our company moved to a suburban location.

Anyway, in remembering that, I remembered how Casey brought some chicken and freezer pops in a trash bag from the Anthony home with her when TL picked her up at her car the last time it ran out of gas at the Amscot. Could Casey have been "paying" the homeless woman for caring for Caylee in food and or other items brought in garbage bags from the Anthony home? Could she have also given her stuff for Caylee in larger black garbage bags brought from home?

I also think back to some of the stuff Casey bought with AH's money at Target, which included an incredible amount of grape juice - both purple and white. In fact she bought a lot of grape juice twice in a two or three day period. I tried to figure out what the heck Casey was doing with all that grape juice - I tried to find some new hip cocktail she might be making for TL and the other guys hanging out at his place, but couldn't really find anything that explained that purchase. Could this have been for the homeless woman and Caylee? Or could it have been for other homeless people who were telling Casey they would tell her where ZFG was if Casey brought them what they wanted? It occurred to me that you CAN make grape juice into wine very inexpensively and this might be what a homeless person would want with it. It takes about 1.5 to 2 weeks to do this and all that is required is grape juice, yeast and sugar. Yeast comes in small packets which are easy to steal. Sugar packets are available everywhere for free. I wish we had documentation of police asking TL and his roommates if they especially liked grape juice or drank it a lot or if they had it at a party or what. It really doesn't seem to me to be something your typical young adult male would want, but I could be wrong. I would just like to see some confirmation about the use of the white and purple grape juice.

As to ZFG's phone, perhaps it was a prepaid cell phone? That would explain why her number would change a lot. These can be bought for as little as $10.
http://www.nydailynews.com/lifestyle/2008/07/23/2008-07-23_hello_its_a_throwaway_10_cell_phone.html

I also remember all of Casey's talk about her Blackjack phone and how she lost it and I wonder if in this scenario perhaps she actually loaned it to ZFG. Remember how she told Lee she might have lost it at J Blanchard Park?

And, yes, it is documented that there is a camp of homeless people near J Blanchard Park. This was discussed in relation to the Nicole Ganguzza case.

Of course all of this doesn't explain why Casey didn't tell the police the truth on July 15 and 16.

 

[Jolynna]

Realistically, from the hearing this morning, I think Jesse is going under the bus.

Just my opinion, based upon how animated and interested KC was when JG's attorney gave his arguments and how reluctant Baez is to show the "materiality" concerning JG.

Baez called JG a "suspect".

 

[Gaia713]

Wait...didn't Casey's friends say that Casey would get serious with a guy hard and fast and the guy would freak and dump her?

Didn't JG say that Cindy lit into Casey right in front of him so badly he felt he had to defend her and ask Cindy not to say those things to the woman he loved?

I've read evidence of Casey behaving both as a victimizer and as a victim. She's both in my opinion.

I think KC makes victims as she is aMASTER manipulator and game player

 

[ThoughtElf]

WELL NOW.

I do believe we just heard JB giving us a hint as to his version of SODDI.

Which BITES. Poor JG.

 

[USARDOG]

Anyway, in remembering that, I remembered how Casey brought some chicken and freezer pops in a trash bag from the Anthony home with her when TL picked her up at her car the last time it ran out of gas at the Amscot. Could Casey have been "paying" the homeless woman for caring for Caylee in food and or other items brought in garbage bags from the Anthony home? Could she have also given her stuff for Caylee in larger black garbage bags brought from home?

I also think back to some of the stuff Casey bought with AH's money at Target, which included an incredible amount of grape juice - both purple and white. In fact she bought a lot of grape juice twice in a two or three day period. I tried to figure out what the heck Casey was doing with all that grape juice - I I would just like to see some confirmation about the use of the white and purple grape juice.

As to ZFG's phone, perhaps it was a prepaid cell phone? That would explain why her number would change a lot. These can be bought for as little as $10.

your post edited by me for brevity.


Ahh, the 'ol homless 10 living in a park making wine trick.... I should have thought of it!~ Yes, she paid her in freezer pops... makes perfect sense.

Well, I'm at lease comforted that you think the homless 10 ZFG was making wine from grape juice, and not water...

 

[VicKnit]

Jesse's dad left the court room. At the end of the proceeding, when everyone was standing up, the camera pulled back and his dad was not there. Wondered if he left after JB's comment about he considered JG a suspect as well as AH?