TN - Shooting at private Christian Covenant School, Nashville, suspect dead, multiple victims, 27 Mar 2023

[JennieM]

When I worked at a Head Start preschool we practiced a live shooter drill. Preschool. I can't even begin to explain the sorrow I feel for children in the United States.

We tell them there are no monsters under your bed but someone might want to kill you at school.

 

[formerlyme]

Media is rolling with the sad oppressed killer theme. imo

sensationalism, a lot of people are sad and feel oppressed, we have to normalize that NOT being an excuse for terrible behaviour

 

[JennieM]

I looked at the art site someone shared above, I don't think she was actually a "working" artist, she had lots in her portfolio that look like they are official but those companies are not using her work.

Only graduated in 2022. Some of the work would be from the college portfolio.

 

[formerlyme]

Only graduated in 2022. Some of the work would be from the college portfolio.

yeah I don't think they were clients.

 

[sandy_80]

"If it bleeds it leads." the media is making a killing off the ratings for each mass shooting. They aren't going to be motivated to stop sensationalizing it unless they were a law banning it but I don't see that happening either.

but this is part of the problem.. cause there are those who can be and are waiting to be influenced by setting examples like this is a manipulated way
they wont stop at anything .. even babies lives

 

[x_files]

but this is part of the problem.. cause there are those who can be and are waiting to be influenced by setting examples like this is a manipulated way
they wont stop at anything .. even babies lives

I agree it is part of the problem of giving the shooters the "infamy" that they desire.
Studies show that the reporting of mass shootings inspires others within 11 days in some weird way it's "contagious". If so, how can the media report the news without giving the shooter infamy?

https://www.npr.org/sections/health...ss-shootings-can-be-contagious-research-shows

 

[Curiousobserver]

sensationalism, a lot of people are sad and feel oppressed, we have to normalize that NOT being an excuse for terrible behaviour

Actual oppression was more common in the past than in the present. That is not what is happening.

 

[formerlyme]

Actual oppression was more common in the past than in the present. That is not what is happening.

agree, not happening but they may still feel it is.... perception.

 

[kaen]

I can’t even remember the last school that I’ve seen that just had unprotected glass doors. My kids elementary & middle schools had glass in the front doors but they were made with that metal stuff in the glass. Two sets of doors both sets locked and required ID to get through, then once you made it to the lobby the secretary sat behind bullet proof glass and she could buzz you into the hallway that led to the classrooms.

I don’t understand how there are so many school shootings and so many schools that are so easily accessed by shooters.

Chicken wire inside of glass is a great option but it does make it hard to breach if there is a fire. One of the hardest thing to do is to take a currently built school structure and fortify it. At the new elementary school that replaced Sandy Hook, the building is incredibly fortified from the edges of the property to the inside of the building. There are so many schools that were built in 50s-70s that have been refurbished and repaired which means that some of the new technologies are almost impossible to use. I am a former school administrator who was on duty in a school near Sandy Hook. We spent months trying to figure out how to fortify a building that was awash with large gorgeous windows and doors that lead outside from every classroom. The price tag was in the high single digit millions. Cost benefit analysis is always done. You can't make a building Fort Knox because the more likely threat will be things like fire, a disaster that things like bullet proof glass are a nightmare for rescue. Not going political here but..... the cost of keeping our kids safe is greater than a retrofit and it is high time that we put the will and capital into every structure that we use for education, including poor areas, rural areas, and areas where people think it would never happen.

 

[JennieM]

Nashville school shooter hid guns in parents' house

Police say the parents felt the suspect should not own weapons, but did not realise guns were in the house.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[waldojabba]

Seems to me it's what the author wants. TRN did not know the shooter or their thought process/beliefs. MOO

From OP's quoted link:

TRN wrote they "do not claim to know the individual or have access to their inner thoughts and feelings" but they "do know that life for transgender people is very difficult, and made more difficult in the preceding months by a virtual avalanche of anti-trans legislation, and public callouts by Right Wing personalities and political figures for nothing less than the genocidal eradication of trans people from society."

I just read this article
There is never an excuse for what this killer did nor do I see this article written as an excuse.
IMO it offers another perspective on how we have arrived at this juncture at this time in this instance
Does it support the writers agenda? Probably, but to me IMO it seems that their agenda is less hate
not written as an excuse for murder

None of us including the author can know or slip inside this killer’s head
Even the writings she left behind likely will not tell the whole story

But as a nation are we fanning the flames of hate?
Are we stoking the fires and increasing the alienation of marginalized populations.
There seems to have been a final straw that" broke the camel’s back" somewhere with this shooter – “a tipping point”
Why that day, that place etc
Not a reason justify or excuse any of this clearly abhorrent behavior -
But in an honest effort to understand perhaps we can begin to identify these people better before they explode.
IMO There are always signs. Always. But a lot of these signs carry stigma. Addiction, mental health issues like depression, anxiety, etc, domestic violence –lots of people keep them secret – even within their own families - many think its a weakness to seek help/counseling.

What I know for sure ? Normal well adjusted people do not go out and buy guns and shoot up schools and kill people

In my book it’s deviant crazy behavior. I want to know what causes it - what are the variable’s with each killer. I am sure people somewhere are making a profile to help better identify those prone to or at risk of harming society?
I want a better understanding of who does this and why and how do we stop it. When Newtown happened I could barely process the horror. That situation was very personal to me. And ten odd years later we still are grappling with the same thing happening over and over.

Maybe this killer’s motive will be as simple as a penchant for suicidal ideation and they were too cowardly to take their own life so they chose this sick and deluded way. Or something far more complex.

But I am looking at the person to understand motive NOT to make excuses or blame others. There are never any excuses.
I am interested in prevention.
ALL IMO

 

[formerlyme]

View attachment 411737

Nashville school shooter hid guns in parents' house

Police say the parents felt the suspect should not own weapons, but did not realise guns were in the house.

www.bbc.co.uk

such a beautiful property for something so tragic. I am waiting on the inside prints, curious as to where everyone was, all the students excpet for 2 were on the 2nd floor the school administrator told police.

 

[airportwoman]

I wonder if it is appropriate to discuss school shootings with elementary school students or not. Maybe if they bring it up.

Although, when I was in elementary school, we had "nuclear bomb" drills. As if that isn't mentally disturbing, I don't know what is...

I would not recommend bringing it up, but if they ask, explain it as gently as possible, in an age-appropriate manner.

 

[YepperBepper]

Rest in gentle peace to the victims.
My utmost condolences to their grieving families.

Thank you for this post.

May their families find some kind of peace. I don't know how they will.....sigh.

I'd like to hear from them....about THEIR current mental health status, after such a horrible event. About their deceased children. About their deceased spouses. I'd like to hear about how we can help THEM.

 

[ohemgee.kay925]

We tell them there are no monsters under your bed but someone might want to kill you at school.

This is really poignant.

 

[Seattle1]

not sure if this was posted before:

Friend says she contacted authorities after messaging with Nashville shooter Audrey Hale on morning of attack

A friend of Nashville shooter Audrey Hale tells ABC News that she contacted authorities Monday morning after Hale messaged her online about "planning to die today."

abcnews.go.com

apparently she had contacted a friend and the friend tried to contact authorities

The friend, PP, a local radio host aka Averianna has already done the network circuit (i.e., CNN, GMA, etc), and told networks they were childhood friends and 8th-grade teammates but did not have a relationship as adults.

Per OP's quoted link, the shooter, known to PP only as Audrey Hale allegedly first sent her a message on 3/16 that according to the shooter was actually her suicide note. It's not clear if PP ever read and/or acknowledged the initial message.

Shooter reached out again via Insta msg on Monday morning, from her vehicle and exchanged the messages seen in OP's quoted link before entering the school building using gunfire to blow through the doors.

After receiving the msgs from the shooter citing distress, PP first contacted a suicide prevention hotline at the suggestion of PP's father and next called the local sheriff dept to report the same. The timestamp of the calls by PP corresponded with the timeline when the shooter was engaged in gunfire.

While the message to PP appears to be the shooter's personal memory of PP (".. I wanted to tell you first because you are the most beautiful person I've ever seen and known all my life,"..), clearly, the shooter targeted PP as a vehicle to get her message out far and wide.

What a rude, manipulative, and disturbed manner to honor somebody that was probably always kind to the shooter.

Please, let's never lose sight that the shooter was a 28-year-old adult who intentionally took action to endanger and slaughter babies -- 9-year-olds.

I'm so done with this demonic shooter. I only want to speak of and for the victims now. MOO

 

[Cedars]

Many people are developmentally challenged. People don't just "grow up" into adults, IMO. They need to be created as adults. Instead, I work in a system (college) where we must allow almost any behavior to be okay. If a prof writes "No later work" on the syllabus, many will take it all the way up the chain and for younger faculty, that can be the death knell to their teaching career.

I just deleted an anecdote, but it's much worse than many of you (if you are over 45, especially) may realize. It's bad. Social promotion is real. Only a tiny number of teachers have the personality type where they can easily bring discipline and authority to the classroom. Most of them just want to teach history or math or English. It's as if a lot of young adults are frozen in about 4-5th grade, in mean kid phase, and now have guns.

Except for the guy in Las Vegas (who was deranged and ideologically bent/radicalized IMO), I can't think of too many mass shooters who were over 40.

It's completely a myth that "brains don't really mature until 25." The real facts are that culture and society play a huge role in maturation and the signs of brain's being less malleable (prone to wild swings and poor judgment) can be seen much younger in places where life is more difficult. Kids are made to mature. Our species knew this for thousands of years, and it was true for my parents' generation. It is no longer expected, for example, that kids control impulses to be polite in the classroom or to avoid distracting others from learning. The opposite, especially from grades 4-12.

A gun came with a kid to my daughter's school just last Friday. Two clips of ammo. Everyone I know is grimly aware that we're at the front lines of this.

IMO.

So it occurs to me, Art School was probably not a good environment for this killer, given what you describe.

I notice there was no mention of a job.

Maybe spending too much time in your old childhood bedroom at your parent's house, dwelling on grievances, no hobbies, job, relationships or healthy activities, just obsessing over a manifesto and grandiose fantasies of destruction.

I don't know, maybe it's not mental health counselling that's needed. Maybe a volunteer trip to Haiti would help more.

JMO

 

[x_files]

So it occurs to me, Art School was probably not a good environment for this killer, given what you describe.

I notice there was no mention of a job.

Maybe spending too much time in your old childhood bedroom at your parent's house, dwelling on grievances, no hobbies, job, relationships or healthy activities, just obsessing over a manifesto and grandiose fantasies of destruction.

I don't know, maybe it's not mental health counselling that's needed. Maybe a volunteer trip to Haiti would help more.

JMO

Maybe but what if she had a mental emergency breakdown in a foreign country?
The arts are a great outlet for creative individuals who are extremely accepting of others, so she should have thrived at art school.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

YouTube said Tuesday that the police body camera video from the school shooting Monday in Nashville, Tennessee, would normally violate its policy against graphic violence but that the platform will leave the video online with certain safeguards.

The Google-owned company said the video was in the public interest as it can educate people about what happened during the shooting incident.

“Following the tragic attack in Nashville Tennessee, some footage released by the Nashville Police Department has been age-restricted with a warning interstitial because of its graphic nature and will remain on YouTube as it is in the public interest,” Jack Malon, a YouTube spokesperson, said in a statement.

YouTube Says Graphic Nashville Body Camera Video Can Stay Online Despite Rules Against Violent Content

YouTube said Tuesday that the police body camera video from the school shooting Monday in Nashville, Tennessee, would normally violate its policy against graphic violence but that the platform will leave the video online with certain safeguards.

www.nbcconnecticut.com

"What we know about, with school shooters, is that they lack social problem solving skills and they start racking up a lot of losses and a lot of disappointments and that feeds into that resentment and it's handled in the worst possible way and that is to hurt and kill other people." he explained.

"There's almost always an element of resentment, anger, paranoia." said Dr. Leeth. "Religion is not bad for many people. It serves as a method of connection, value, meaning spirituality and is an essential part of whole wellness. In some cases, when someone doesn't fit in and doesn't feel connected though and is actively being judged or shamed, that could cause a lot of severe feelings of disconnection."

Experts analyze psychology behind school shootings following deadly Nashville tragedy

When horrific tragedies occur, like school shootings, conversations about gun control, access to weapons and mental health reignite.

www.kristv.com

 

[Colorado303]

If people are paying attention I bet yes, there were plenty of Red Flags.

Undoubtedly there were red flags. It’s complicated because there are likely dozens of others who displayed those same red flags and never hurt anyone. And all of them should be referred to counseling. The problems:

o. There aren’t nearly enough accessible, affordable MH resources available

o. The resources that exist aren’t necessarily trained/equipped to accurately distinguish between future shooter amd disturbed kids who pose no threat. I’m not sure any mortal can.

o. Even if the true threats could be identified w/100% accuracy (and we can’t) can someone who’d commit a mass shooting even be successfully treated? Does anyone really know?

o Those best able to diagnose and treat them are often in specialized psychiatric facilities. But MH professionals can be reluctant to commit patients or even place then on a 72-hour hold. James Holmes (the CO movie theatre shooter) was under the care of a psychologist who refused to put him on a psychiatric hold even when suggested to do so by LE.

It’s unfortunate, but IMO even w/adequate MH resources the only way to keep the public completely safe would be to contain potential future mass killers in a 24/7 psychiatric facility. Making sure none slip through the cracks would require locking up some disturbed kids who wouldn’t have progressed to causing harm. Patients, their parents, civil liberty groups and the court would understandably object.

Without question there’s a need for expotentially more accessible MH resources. We also need to learn how to identify and direct those needing counseling these resources. But I also think we need to monitor and rein in social media. I’m willing to bet most mass shooters, like terrorists, have found like-minded individuals and/or materials online that helped fuel their rage and sense of justification. Maybe even encouraged their violent act. When there are sources validating a person’s sick thoughts they’re far less likely to think they need help.

Many may disagree but I believe a new national culture centered on the headiness of righteous indignation has emerged. It’s no wonder more young people are angry and acting on their rage. Unless we dial back the growing tendency to be convinced WE ARE RIGHT and those that disagree are wrong (and need to be stopped) I fear it will keep getting worse.