UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged, Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #6

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Marten said that social services had stopped her at the border in the past when she had tried to go abroad. She added "They had done it before in the past when I tried to take my children to Ireland.




 
She said it was suspicious that their cars kept breaking down. Ms Marten explained to jurors that she was always the one who was driving.

"Mark doesn't drive, doesn't know how to drive.

I have tried to teach him", she added.






Mr Hudson said he saw a woman get out of the passenger’s side of the car and run past him on the hard shoulder,
while the male driver "frantically" pulled items out of the burning vehicle.





 
She said it was suspicious that their cars kept breaking down. Ms Marten explained to jurors that she was always the one who was driving.

"Mark doesn't drive, doesn't know how to drive.

I have tried to teach him", she added.






Mr Hudson said he saw a woman get out of the passenger’s side of the car and run past him on the hard shoulder,
while the male driver "frantically" pulled items out of the burning vehicle.





I can honestly say I am totally flummoxed by her evidence. Each day she’s given evidence, it seems to get even more bizarre..allegations of selling children? Being stopped taking them to Ireland? Stopped from travelling abroad? If any of this is true, surely the family or SS need to be giving evidence one way or their other. It just feels like there is a huge gap in what we’ve heard from the Prosecution.. the only thing I can think of is it’s been deliberately kept out of court and my only be detail released after if they’re found guilty?
 
Huh? Does she mean herself?


Independent has a bit more info


Marten accuses press attention of altering witness recollections​

Becoming frustrated, Marten told the court that press attention to the case is “seriously affecting witnesses”,

after she disagreed with a particular witness statement.

She added: “I think people are exaggerating and making things up. It can affect cases.



 
Constance Marten has told jurors that her family believed she was a drug addict who was “breeding children to sell on the black market”.
Accusing them of bringing a High Court case against her in 2019 which prevented her from leaving the country,
she also claimed that they had hired private investigators to follow her.




I’ve checked online court cases and there is nothing under her name. The only thing I can think of would be an order from the Court of Protection?
 
Independent has a bit more info


Marten accuses press attention of altering witness recollections​

Becoming frustrated, Marten told the court that press attention to the case is “seriously affecting witnesses”,

after she disagreed with a particular witness statement.

She added: “I think people are exaggerating and making things up. It can affect cases.



Ah, thanks. She does have a point, the witness who changed their statement comes to mind.
 
Constance Marten has told jurors that her family believed she was a drug addict who was “breeding children to sell on the black market”.
Accusing them of bringing a High Court case against her in 2019 which prevented her from leaving the country,
she also claimed that they had hired private investigators to follow her.




I think the 2019 case may have resulted in orders being granted preventing travel for the children, not CM. I did post a link up thread (I think).
 

"Marten is remonstrating with the court that press attention to the case is 'seriously affecting witnesses'.

She added: 'I think people are exaggerating and making things up. It can affect cases.

'I think people think that we are really bad people. Having such media attention can affect people's witness statements.'
"

Indeed.


""Sarah Hidden told a court she saw two people resembling the couple on a coastal path near Seaford, East Sussex, between 16 and 27 January, and heard cries a few days earlier."
A couple of days before she saw the two people she had heard the sound of a baby crying through her open window between about 01:00 GMT and 03:00, she said.
"I was asleep, but the crying woke me up. Two nights in a row," she told the jury.
"It seemed to be on the first night moving from West to East."
She said the crying lasted about thirty or forty minutes and was from the direction of Seaford Head Golf Course.
" (BBM)

IMO the jury will think Ms Hidden's evidence is worthless.

Some may wonder why the CPS called her. The answer is probably that they didn't know what the defence would say was the date of death.

Then there was Pauline Mason:


"Pauline Mason told jurors that she had seen a man with a woman carrying a lifeless baby in a sling in Stanmer Park in Brighton on February 19. Mrs Mason, who had been in a mobility scooter, had described the baby as being very pale with her head "wobbling", "floppy" and "unsteady". On Monday, her husband of 55 years told jurors that she had insisted on telling police about the alleged sighting because she had failed to make a report about the Babes in the Wood murders of two girls in Brighton years before."

Just a general point, but in cases that receive a lot of publicity it's normal for the police to be contacted by numerous "witnesses" who, shall we say, have a lot of difficulty in distinguishing between their lives and what's on the television.

And we saw that guy shout "Murderer" at MG outside the Old Bailey, which sadly is indicative of how many media consumers think.

ETA: has CM been discharged from the witness box?
 
Marten said the plan was to find someone prepared to register Victoria under their own name.

She told the court earlier that she would not have been able to register her daughter’s birth without alerting the authorities and that she planned to use private medical care on Harley Street if her daughter ever needed medical attention instead of registering her with the NHS.

Challenged on how getting someone else to register the baby’s birth may have been difficult, Marten said: “I am sure these things are doable. I will do anything to save my children.”





Say her parents accused her of “selling babies on the black market”
And
So what exactly is CM paying a person to register Victoria under their own name, or paying someone from Gumtree to smuggle baby out of UK.

Seems like she was planning activities with Victoria very similar to trafficking a baby.

CM is “fit to stand trial” because she knows right from wrong, etc. IMO from her testimony it appears she has issues that mean she is a vulnerable adult and this impact her decision-making in relation to responsible childcare, parenting safely, etc.

(If there was a magical place, with no SS, no CM family, with enough money and a house, I’m not sure this couple and any children would thrive/survive. They struggle with everyday living without understand why things go wrong, they can only conjure-up conspiracies because they, for whatever reason, don’t see that many struggles results are of their own decisions. Can only see it’s the fault of others, so haven’t /won’t recognize need to make changes)IMO
 
Inheritance tradition in “aristocrat” families is for estate and title go to oldest male, not first born. Selling was probably practical decision as maintaining those homes nearly impossible without regular large income. Not to mention “transfer” duties on the value of the property, and contents. A huge chunk likely required to be sold to pay the taxes, which may have driven decision to sell entire estate. If it’s true, that the brothers who had properties “bought for them”, could be that they had been given properties of the estate when father transferred it and they were replaced.
Not sure if transfers at death would have been more tax effective, as father is still alive this transfer could a been a costly unplanned mess.
No idea what provisions / conditions were for CM.
The sale was probably unavoidable given taxes due on transfer to son.

Just so we're clear, this is the estate in question. Country houses like that are absolute money pits that only make sense if you can run them as tourist attractions or you are worth squillions. The Martens might be wealthy, but they're not Duke of Westminster wealthy. Also, if Mary Anna Marten didn't put everything in trust, or give it away before she died, then there probably was a hefty inheritance tax bill. I'm not at all surprised that they flogged the house to an American billionaire.
 
11:54am

Marten planned to pay someone to smuggle her child​

Joel Smith, prosecuting, asked: "You wanted to find someone and pay them to smuggle your child abroad?"
Marten confirmed and said she would like to use a nanny.
Mr Smith asked: "Do you think nannies take money to smuggle people abroad?"
Marten said: "Where there’s a will there’s a way.
"There are plenty of people you can find. You can go and live with them and see how they look after people.
"You can find people online on gumtree. You can see how they take care of children."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jesus! Is she actually saying in a court of law that she would be happy to find someone on Gumtree to look after her child and smuggle them abroad! And yet she is an 'excellent mother'. It just gets more and more bizarre. Gumtree is a known cesspit of sharks looking to make a quick buck. She's insane - my last shred of any sympathy just vanished!
I'll bet her defence are really thrilled.
 

"Marten is remonstrating with the court that press attention to the case is 'seriously affecting witnesses'.

She added: 'I think people are exaggerating and making things up. It can affect cases.

'I think people think that we are really bad people. Having such media attention can affect people's witness statements.'
"

Indeed.


""Sarah Hidden told a court she saw two people resembling the couple on a coastal path near Seaford, East Sussex, between 16 and 27 January, and heard cries a few days earlier."
A couple of days before she saw the two people she had heard the sound of a baby crying through her open window between about 01:00 GMT and 03:00, she said.
"I was asleep, but the crying woke me up. Two nights in a row," she told the jury.
"It seemed to be on the first night moving from West to East."
She said the crying lasted about thirty or forty minutes and was from the direction of Seaford Head Golf Course.
" (BBM)

IMO the jury will think Ms Hidden's evidence is worthless.

Some may wonder why the CPS called her. The answer is probably that they didn't know what the defence would say was the date of death.

Then there was Pauline Mason:


"Pauline Mason told jurors that she had seen a man with a woman carrying a lifeless baby in a sling in Stanmer Park in Brighton on February 19. Mrs Mason, who had been in a mobility scooter, had described the baby as being very pale with her head "wobbling", "floppy" and "unsteady". On Monday, her husband of 55 years told jurors that she had insisted on telling police about the alleged sighting because she had failed to make a report about the Babes in the Wood murders of two girls in Brighton years before."

Just a general point, but in cases that receive a lot of publicity it's normal for the police to be contacted by numerous "witnesses" who, shall we say, have a lot of difficulty in distinguishing between their lives and what's on the television.

And we saw that guy shout "Murderer" at MG outside the Old Bailey, which sadly is indicative of how many media consumers think.

ETA: has CM been discharged from the witness box?
Not yet. The start where they left off on Wednesday.
 
There's 4 sailings each day from Liverpool to Belfast. Pretty easy to get into Ireland from NI.


And plenty direct to Dublin from Holyhead

 
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