Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #17 *ARREST*

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by cybervampira, Feb 2, 2019.

  1. Miss_French

    Miss_French Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. He may not need them if it's a brief appearance to confirm a few details, but a different matter if he's got to sit at the desk and maybe read any notes from his defence. He might not have even thought about taking his glasses with him, or thought he may not have needed them, but finds they make it clearer for walking/looking around.
     
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  2. Miss_French

    Miss_French Well-Known Member

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    Actually the defence counsel has a duty to carry out the defendant's instructions and to not do so can result in a mistrial. What Jeffrey Samuels used was the material provided by the prosection that included the police questioning of Robert Dowler who was initially a suspect due to Millie finding his porn collection. The defence didn't lie, an alternative narrative was used. It was the judge who agreed to this evidence being used in court, and rejected reporting restrictions being placed on this part of the trial; he also would have been monitoring the line of questioning and was within his rights to have stopped it if he wasn't happy with it.
     
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  3. Newthoughts

    Newthoughts Well-Known Member

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    An alternative narrative? What exactly is that if not a euphemism for a lie. Robert Dowler didn't harm his daughter. He wasn't on trial. Nor was her mother or their parenting.

    It is absolutely right And proper that PR gets a fair trial. If he is guilty as charged that will rest on 'alternative narratives' of the nights events. His defence will no doubt frame those alternative narratives for him and Libby's parents will have to listen. That is the defence counsels job. Framing alternative narratives

    As for Bellfield's trial - Robert Dowler and that alternative narrative had long since been rejected. Nobody had raised any concerns about Milly's mental health. The defence only had to prove that Bellfield didn't kill her not who did or how. Bellfield was already serving life for brutal murders. Those alternative narratives were not remotely relevevant

    Neither were any of the mistakes made in the original investigation relevant. Nor was much of the stuff used initially such as her diaries. They were relevant only to funding her initially. The judge should have stopped that line of questioning IMO. It was torture.

    Fair trial also applies to victims. They need respect too.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2019
  4. Miss_French

    Miss_French Well-Known Member

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    It's not a lie to ask "could x have happened instead of y?". If that is the instruction given by the defendent it has to be followed by the defense counsel and can be put to witnesses who have agreed to appear and have been prepared by the CPS as to the line of questioning that could be taken. The judge had his reasons for letting the Bellfield trial proceed as it did, which is why I mentioned the admission of particular evidence and the rejection of reporting restrictions.
     
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  5. Cherwell

    Cherwell Ice Cream

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    I didn't miss it. You said "I know that's totally stupid and irrational but it just seems wrong." And that's what I responded to.
     
  6. JosieJo

    JosieJo Well-Known Member

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    There cant ever be a presumption that in any case the CPS or us know the true version of events before trial
    Any defendant is entitled to give their version of events and it is their counsels job to try and prove that version of events no matter how unpalatable that may to the victims family
    The judge has the choice to not allow evidence if they feel it irrelevant
    I think the point being made is it's the person charged who may be lying the defence qc has to defend them
     
  7. Via Marple

    Via Marple Here to learn how devious minds work

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    FWIW I am always disgusted by dirty sexual offenders. The defendent is one. I don't care if he gets a parrot for a translator. That is my sense of justice and I am not apologising for it.

    MOO
     
  8. Niner

    Niner Long time Websleuther

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    Anyone catch the "date" in March for his next hearing or was it not said? TIA! :) Just want to keep my notes straight!
     
  9. Amonet

    Amonet Well-Known Member

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    For @Niner

     
  10. CoverMeCagney

    CoverMeCagney Well-Known Member

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    5 weeks seems a long trial for this case, doesn't it? One alleged killer, one victim. There must be a lot more evidence and statements to get through than we thought.
     
  11. Newthoughts

    Newthoughts Well-Known Member

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    Yes and again the key word there is 'seems'

    I wasn't saying I needed an explanation of what a translator does. I wasn't saying I thought it remotely important in the great scheme of things.

    I was merely expressing an irrational visceral emotional response to a man serving 8.5 years for sexually motivated terrorising of women. Nothing more nothing less.
     
  12. Niner

    Niner Long time Websleuther

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    Thank you Amonet! :)

    Do you all want me to put this in my "notes"??

    Richard Wright QC will lead Mr Woolfall in prosecuting the case. Oliver Saxby QC will lead the defence.
     
  13. Newthoughts

    Newthoughts Well-Known Member

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    I guess there will be a need for an interpreter for PR and possibly some witnesses if any of his colleagues, friends and acquaintances are called. That might hold things up.

    Plus I'd imagine there will be complicated forensics to plough through. The police and CPS have said it's a complex case.
     
  14. Amonet

    Amonet Well-Known Member

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    Not if you don't normally :)

    But if you could note that the trial itself is expected to be held in Sheffield (not Hull) that would be very helpful. (This was noted in a post here a page or two back)

    Thanks Niner!
     
  15. Niner

    Niner Long time Websleuther

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    I do have Sheffield on my notes! :) I'll add it to the update for 10/31. Then people can reference back.
     
  16. jamjim

    jamjim Well-Known Member

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    Thank you @Niner! :)
     
  17. Newthoughts

    Newthoughts Well-Known Member

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    There is only one narrative and only PR knows what it is.

    The job of the prosecution is to ascertain as closely as possibly what that narrative was or at least the criminal aspects of it. It's then to prove that criminal acts occurred beyond reasonable doubt. They shouldn't need to manufacture anything.

    The job of defence is to introduce reasonable doubt. If PR is not guilty that shouldn't require any alternative narratives.

    If he is guilty then he has to come up with alternative narratives that didn't happen.

    At the start of this there were numerous possible scenarios. They appear to have narrowed with whatever evidence LE have gathered. That has narrowed PRs range of alternatives that could have happened because even Libby running away from him and falling into the river leads him open to manslaughter charges.

    So what options does he have? Some of those will hurt her parents memory of her life? They won't be true alternatives.

    That's our legal system. It is not perfect but it's all we've got.
     
  18. MsMiniSleuth

    MsMiniSleuth Well-Known Member

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    If he should plead guilty it will be over quick smart. That will save a lot of anguish for the family, not having to sit through gruesome details.
     
  19. Officer Dibble

    Officer Dibble Well-Known Member

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    Control freak?
     
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  20. Officer Dibble

    Officer Dibble Well-Known Member

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    That is a tough one
     

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