UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #15

[sleuth777]

Sky News link:

Healthcare worker arrested on suspicion of murdering eight babies

Media, Maps & Timeline *NO DISCUSSION* thread

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[Sillybilly]

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[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

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[Knitty]

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[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

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[Sillybilly]

Hey everyone,

This is a reminder that ANY expressed opinion related to the guilt or innocence of the accused is sub judice. Please read Post #2 of the Opening Posts in this discussion.

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[Knitty]

Please continue here.

 

[Tortoise]

Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue
·
1m

Mr Myers asks him to spell out what an excessive amount of adrenaline could do to a neonate - he says that it can cause increased heart rate, blood pressure and have an adverse effect on lactic acidosis

 

[Tortoise]

Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue
·
4m

The judge seeks some clarification from the witness. He says that if Child P had been given excessive adrenaline, you would expect to see the effect within 10/15mins

 

[JosieJo]

Dan O'Donoghue
@MrDanDonoghue
·
1m

Mr Myers asks him to spell out what an excessive amount of adrenaline could do to a neonate - he says that it can cause increased heart rate, blood pressure and have an adverse effect on lactic acidosis

I'd be more inclined to wonder why the baby collapsed and required adrenaline in the first instance

 

[marynnu]

I'd be more inclined to wonder why the baby collapsed and required adrenaline in the first instance

Exactly.

 

[Tortoise]

Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue
·
58s

Medical expert Dr Dewi Evans is now in the witness box, he was asked to review the baby deaths by Cheshire Police in 2017

 

[LadyEdgeworth]

Dan O'Donoghue
@MrDanDonoghue
·
1m

Mr Myers asks him to spell out what an excessive amount of adrenaline could do to a neonate - he says that it can cause increased heart rate, blood pressure and have an adverse effect on lactic acidosis

Don't understand this from Myers, he was given the adrenaline after the collapse so it could hardly be the cause of it?

 

[Imogenia]

Don't understand this from Myers, he was given the adrenaline after the collapse so it could hardly be the cause of it?

I agree, and if excess of the normal dose of adrenaline was eventually given in the face of moribundity, that is with the intention of getting a heart beating, and securing something of a blood pressure for the perfusion of vital organs, surely? Acidosis could then be treated?

This is just my opinion.

 

[LadyEdgeworth]

Dan O'Donoghue
@MrDanDonoghue
·
4m

The judge seeks some clarification from the witness. He says that if Child P had been given excessive adrenaline, you would expect to see the effect within 10/15mins

I'm sure there was some question about how much adrenaline Baby O had too, Doctor Gibbs asked LL and she wasn't sure if it was 3 or 4

 

[marynnu]

I agree, and if excess of the normal dose of adrenaline was eventually given in the face of moribundity, that is with the intention of getting a heart beating, and securing something of a blood pressure for the perfusion of vital organs, surely? Acidosis could then be treated?

This is just my opinion.

I tend to agree. You know, thinking back I don't think I ever saw resus fail except where there was a profound underlying problem such as a heart defect, or in one case Group B Strep infection at birth. I remember the last one because we worked on this child for a couple of hours to no avail. Nobody's worrying about how many doses of adrenaline are given if it's that or death.

 

[Becci]

I tend to agree. You know, thinking back I don't think I ever saw resus fail except where there was a profound underlying problem such as a heart defect, or in one case Group B Strep infection at birth. I remember the last one because we worked on this child for a couple of hours to no avail. Nobody's worrying about how many doses of adrenaline are given if it's that or death.

Hi can a collapsed lung cause a sudden collapse?

 

[magikarpmagikarp]

Very curious about this line of questioning too. Having a heart rate that is too slow to perfuse the organs obviously results in acidosis too, and that's what adrenaline is given for during resus (the slow heart rate). Is Myers going to assert that the resuscitation failed due to excessive adrenaline administration? But why did the baby need it in the first place??

 

[Imogenia]

I tend to agree. You know, thinking back I don't think I ever saw resus fail except where there was a profound underlying problem such as a heart defect, or in one case Group B Strep infection at birth. I remember the last one because we worked on this child for a couple of hours to no avail. Nobody's worrying about how many doses of adrenaline are given if it's that or death.

I hadn’t appreciated (before this trial) that resus rarely fails in neonates, (except, as you say, where a profound underlying problem exists).

If a perpetrator knows this fact, surely they would also know that suspicion would arise if resus attempts failed on different babies?

I’m under the impression that if any person’s hospital death could be regarded as suspicious, (not necessarily criminal), the staff should not usually rush to prepare the body, or remove anything from the body, (lest evidence be inadvertently tampered with). This is in case there is to be a post mortem.

 

[magikarpmagikarp]

Hi can a collapsed lung cause a sudden collapse?

A tension pneumothorax can cause a collapse. This is when there is air in the chest that is outside of the lung, and it prevents the lung from inflating as well as pushes the heart to one side and interferes with circulation. It is only my opinion but I think it would be extremely uncommon (beggaring belief) for that to happen suddenly and spontaneously in an otherwise healthy 33 weeker who is not being mechanically ventilated. Pneumothorax can also occur during a resuscitation, as a side effect of efforts to ventilate the baby. (All just my opinion!)