Found Alive WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #36

[katydid23]

Apparently, according to the call log, from when the Kasinskas family called 911, Jayme told the dispatcher that her kidnapper was previously in the military. I wonder if he lied to her, and exaggerated that?

 

[human]

Rescuers, law enforcement recount finding Closs alive

"Douglas County Sheriff’s Office deputies arrived within 20 minutes of Kristin’s 911 call. A pair of deputies identified Closs and took her into protective custody. A deputy stayed behind with Nutter and the Kasinskas family.

“They identified her, stood her up, got her in the car and got her out of there instantly,” said Kasinskas, who works at Louisiana Pacific in Hayward.

"It was a great day," Douglas County Sheriff Tom Dalbec said.

He credited Nutter and the others for keeping Closs safe and calling 911 right away."

Freezing weather and she is out there in giant shoes walking on icy roads for 8 minutes. 8 minutes is a long long time in the cold .Jayme would not be able to walk fast in giant shoes.

Can you imagine the terror they were both feeling!

 

[MassGuy]

Apparently, according to the call log, from when the Kasinkzy family called 911, Jayme told the dispatcher that her kidnapper was previously in the military. I wonder if he lied to her, and exaggerated that?

Flat out lied, or exaggerated.

He probably has a fragile little ego, and this lie would serve him well as far as intimidation goes.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Longest 20 mins ever! Can you imagine? How scary. I get that it’s rural, but i naively imagine very quick response time when 911 is called.

I think she felt safe. The ones who had her were armed and loaded ready to protect her if he stupidly came there.

Most who do what he has done are really cowards when it comes to the possibility they may be the one shot and wounded or is the one who may be shot dead.

Jmo

 

[stephlovescheese]

Jayme Closs' parents killed because they were 'barrier' to her kidnapping, sheriff says - CNN

Not sure if this CNN article has been posted. Pretty much more of the same info.

 

[Stunned]

I would be very shocked as well if he were.. way too brazen. Those i have had contact with that are on the spectrum do not like chaos or changes or over stimulation.

Exactly

 

[katydid23]

"Fitzgerald said investigators have established that Patterson was not home when Jayme approached Nutter for help. He said they believe Patterson may have been out searching for her at the time of his arrest."
<snip>
"The first Douglas County deputy arrived on scene to locate Jayme at 4:43 p.m. Exactly 10 minutes later, according to the call log, deputies stopped Patterson’s car. He was detained at 4:54 p.m."

JC told Nutter that JP would not be back until midnight - so how did he know she had escaped? Was he watching her? Was someone else?

Source Sheriff: Closs ‘targeted’ by 21-year-old suspect with no...

I don't think he knew yet, that she had escaped. Thank Goodness. I think he was out doing errands, or whatever it was he did when he would leave her there alone.

In my opinion, if he had known she had escaped, then his reaction to being pulled over would have been very different. I think he would have tried to get away at that point. I think he truly believed he was just getting a traffic ticket. JMO

 

[human]

I agree with a lot of what you wrote. This child is particularly strong. And I'm sure she will compel herself to testify to get justice.

However, I disagree that she will march right up there and easily testify. In most cases where child victims of trauma testify they need a lot of psychological help, victim assistance and safeguards to be anywhere close to a position to be able to testify.

Also, I 100% disagree that children are resilient. I think that's something we adults say to comfort ourselves. Children are particularly vulnerable to the effects of trauma.

Almost every mental illness has roots in childhood trauma even when there are genetic components. Anxiety disorder. Panic disorder. Depression. Bipolar disorder. Narcissistic personality disorder. Histrionic personality disorder. Antisocial personality disorder. Borderline personality disorder. Obsessive compulsive disorder. Alcohol and drug dependency. Etc.

All can stem from childhood trauma.

Children are horrifically destroyed by trauma. They lack the emotional reserves, the cognitive abilities and the maturity and life experience that enables them to cope with such events.

Interestingly, the child you reference was one of psychiatrist Bruce Perry's patients. He wrote the primer (IMO) on childhood trauma.

That kid had extensive therapy in order to be able to get up there and testify, from what I recall, which mostly consisted of her repeatedly positioning the doctor on the floor and simulating hog tying him and slitting his throat, until eventually she gained some semblance of agency and power over the memories of what had been done to her.

Totally agree.

Think of how difficult it is for adults to process tragedy when they have the cognitive abilities to understand facts and information.

Children have none of that. Children are not resilient, as you have pointed out

 

[OTPTarheel2018]

I think some think anyone who goes to boot camp passes muster when in truth there will always be quite a few who don't even make it out of boot camp.

Like you have said there are a myriad of reasons why they don't make it to graduation.

Some don't even last but a couple or three weeks or even less much less lasting for 13 grueling weeks at Marine Corps boot camp. Some get a rude awakening about the realities of becoming a Marine.

I'd be surprised if he ever served a day no matter the branch of service.

Imo

And another recent case and trial with a MC dropout -- Daron Wint.
Getting kicked out of boot camp is usually a telling tale...not saying JP was kicked out but...

JMO and wondering

 

[MsJosie]

People come over while he’s gone.

What?

And where did he go?

Burglary's?

If he had “people” or “friends” come over, IMO, they must have driven as it looks like a long walk to anywhere. I am surprised no one noticed cars going in/out drive even if house cannot be seen from street. I bet there were not many visitors.

Also who was getting any active utility bills? Were the bills sent to parents location or to the actual house he was in? If to the parents why were they not questioning the higher usage and bill, unless they knew he was there. If sent to the house, IMO, he was throwing away the bills....until utilities were turned off.

Not sleuthing, but was his brother living there Too? In was remarked the brothers once lived there together.

I hope he pleads guilty.....but not much hope in that.

 

[Hope4More]

Elizabeth Smart testified EIGHT YEARS after she was kidnapped. She was an adult by then.

This has nothing to do with "putting the stigma of rape on the survivor".

For me it has to do with trauma. Period.

But I also think it sort of has to do with an excited public's determination to hear details of abuse that a survivor may not want the public to hear. Sometimes people make excuses for why those details should be public and sometimes one of those excuses is that those of us who wish to afford a survivor privacy, are fostering the stigma of sexual assault.

She's a kid who can be retraumatized by reliving what happened to her and by the knowledge that a public desperate for details is hearing every bit of what occurred.

Elizabeth Smart didn't actually have therapy and she wasn't quizzed on the details by family when she escaped. Instead, she was surrounded by healthy family relationships and allowed to get back to a normal life as soon as possible. She went back to school. Her community treated her normally. She finished high school, went to college and became a missionary before she ever had to testify as to details.

She became a wife and mother before she spoke voluntarily on a tv program about what happened to her, in an effort to help other victims of abuse.

I hope JC can be equally protected and allowed to try to resume a normal life. I hope the creep pleads guilty so that JC can have some agency and the dignity and power of deciding if and when she speaks about the details of what she survived.

I'm in complete agreement that if at all possible, Jayme and no one else- including LE and/or her family- should decide for her whether or not to make public any more potential charges than the plenty that are already known and more than enough to warrant LWOP for the accused.

Jayme is a child. She can't and shouldn't be asked to bear the responsiblity of others' interpretations /expectations of what is "appropriate" or "right" to do, in terms of protecting herself, grieving, or telling or not telling her story to LE, prosecutors, or in court, or even, for that matter, to the family members who have embraced her.

The public has a right to be protected from this murderer and kidnapper, to hear the case against him in court, and to see justice done. Nothing less, but nothing more either.

 

[Rubiconbob]

Watched both press conference, and read a no of pieces on JP... still don’t get the timeline... or what’s being said.

Divorce happens in 2008.. that makes JP roughly 11 years old at time of divorce...

One neighbor makes it sound like once divorced the kids were left the cabin for themselves... then they were later in foster care??? So both parents bail on 3 kids in 2008 is that correct...that would mess someone up @ 11...not excusing ... I just don’t know what happened 2008 to 2019...
Doesn’t appear it was much structure or family time..

—————

Patterson’s parents divorced in 2008, according to online court records. Neighbor Daphne Ronning told the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel that the parents moved away but that Patterson and his older brother, Erik, continued to stay in the cabin. She said she and her husband once caught them siphoning gas. Another neighbor, Patricia Osborne, told the Minneapolis Star Tribune that the brothers often got into trouble. She said they stole things and spent time in foster care.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

IMO we're all trying to find a label (a reason) for JTP's actions. autism, drugs, foster care, incel...we're going in circles without facts.

how about a new label - "limup"??? lonely introverted mentally unstable pervert...it's so much more simple than we can fathom. can't explain many of these crimes and never will...keep the faith, justice will be served and jayme will hopefully heal.

see you folks on the unfortunate next case...

Funny you should mention this, Rabbit , because the more I am learning about Patterson, the more I can see some psychological parallels to Jeffery Dahmer. Dahmer was the product of a nasty parental divorce which affected him deeply...he was a quiet child. The parents left the family home, leaving a very young Dahmer to remain in house and fend for himself. When asked why he did the horrible things he did, Dahmer once responded that he took his victims because he wanted someone who would always stay with him, and that if he let them live, he knew they would leave. I can't help but wonder if abandonment, loneliness and isolation played a huge part in all of this, from Patterson's perspective.

Just some thoughts.

 

[MCDRAW]

Longest 20 mins ever! Can you imagine? How scary. I get that it’s rural, but i naively imagine very quick response time when 911 is called.

Rural response time can be very lengthy. where I live, 20 minutes would be fast.

 

[Lillymac]

I haven't read that people were "coming and going" but the neighbor did state in her CNN interview that JP "hid her when others were near......"

What we know about the suspect in the kidnapping of Jayme Closs

 

[PommyMommy]

It was only 3 years ago that he graduated in a class of 34 teens.
Only 46 homes in the South Eau Claire Acres - and only a handful of those are permanent residences.
The constable did not know the family.
No friends at high school, a loner.

Perhaps his closest friend was his brother.

His parents moved out, brother moved out of state, unknown sister location. No mention of any other family members.

And no one knew much about him or his family.

And where would he go since he didn’t work? Not the local bar.

What is the major employer in Gordon?

I've read about a bar and a correctional institution. IOW, I don't know.
Sorry!

 

[Caylee Advocate]

It seems like she would have to, at a minimum, identify him as the individual who killed her parents and kidnapped her, since there is no one else who could do that. No idea how it works in the case of a minor, if there's any way she can be spared facing him.

That poor girl, thinking ahead to what she may have to endure.

I hope the freak pleads guilty, but in the event he doesn't, I pray God gives Jayme the strength to let this sub-human know that she no longer fears him and that she is there to make sure justice comes for herself and her wonderful Mom and Dad.

Jayme needs to know her limits and whether or not she decides to face him or testify in a different way, everyone is proud of her.

 

[vlpate]

Elizabeth Smart gave no interviews or testimony about the details of what she went through until eight years later. She did not undergo any therapy either. So no details were discussed even with a counselor.

Those are facts. Amanda and Gina were full grown adults when they talked. Not 13 year old girls.

I do think the public wants details. One post here stated "I can't wait to see inside" where she was held. A subsequent post clarified that that apparent excitement was due to morbid curiosity.

Don't get me wrong, it's pretty obvious why she was taken, we all know she was likely assaulted (unless we're naive) and it's clear further charges as to that are probably coming soon. I don't think it's wrong to talk about that.

This conversation was about the desire to have her testify because it somehow is "healing" and to suggest otherwise is to shame and stigmatize sexual assault victims. That's what I'm discussing and I disagree with that point.

I'd like this child to be protected as much as is practicable and I disagree that it is healing for a child to testify about trauma she just endured.

I hope he pleads guilty so she can choose or at the least, trial won't happen for a long time so she can have time to recover.

That's just my opinion.

It is doubtful this case will go to trial anytime soon. The murder case alone will take a while, probably.

Any idea if they will try the kidnapping and both murders together?

 

[The Farm]

Just a reminder everyone tonight on 48 Hours they will have a special on Jayme. 10pm EST-9C.

 

[Julia966]

Longest 20 mins ever! Can you imagine? How scary. I get that it’s rural, but i naively imagine very quick response time when 911 is called.

Yeah, 20 minutes seems like a very long time, though it is a sparsely-populated county. The deputies must be a ways away. It must have been a very tense 20 minutes.