Where is Amy's totalled car? Time Line and Ping

[BondJamesBond]

1) OK...6/19 is a Thursday, vs. Friday 6/20, but, recall the text about running outta gas 2 Friday's in a row. Casey called Amy @ 4:23PM for a 3 minute call after pinging @ Amscot area. Did she call Amy while she was walking to Tony's and tell her she'd run outta gas? Even though Amy didn't see her or pick her up...may explain the "2 Friday's outta gas" text. This call pinged near Tony's apt. This would've been the PERFECT time for Casey to wanna ditch the car and get an excuse to borrow Tony's Jeep later. :waitasec: which would help explain a few things (I know...still needs work) Perhaps the call to Lexus was need a ride from a friend nearby?? She wouldn't have wanted Tony to know she was gonna borrow his Jeep later (maybe he went back to class that night to catch up from skipping classes 6/17...giving her the opportunity)?

*snipped* after editing

Thanks, Deb. Justathought...a long putt...but came to me in editing..

 

[beckaroozie]

Respectfully snipped:

3) Could Sean H. be associated w/ the unidentified #81? He could be return texting her after seeing a call from her earlier in the afternoon....no other incoming from him that day...Sean H. is a mystery to me. He shows up in the cell log for the first time 6/17...his texting is focused on 6/17, 6/19, 6/27, 7/11 and 7/12...maybe nothing....

Sorry...lotsa questions...not answers...perhaps it'll spur some

BJB very good research and observations! Who IS Sean H??? Those are odd dates for isolated calls to/from him. Do we know what his last name is and what role he plays?? Or is it a mystery as you said? Has LE interviewed him? Obviously, if they have it hasn't been released has it? He might be the missing part of the puzzle considering the dates/times of his contact with KC.

 

[JWG]

I just posted the following on the June 19 ping thread and thought I'd post it here as well because it is kind of central to this discussion.

I stumbled across an error in the phone log spreadsheet that folks have been using to analyze this case. This one is somewhat critical because it mis-identifies the owner of a phone number.

For those of you who had the intestinal fortitude to look at the most recent 700-page document dump, you would have noticed several pages of phone logs where LE had summarized some of the calls KC made from June 15 to June 20. I gave them a cursory look, and assumed they matched our spreadsheet. We all know what happens when you *advertiser censored*-u-me something. :whistle:

Here is a synopsis of what is on evidence page 2577, which isolates KC TOLLs for June 19. These are incoming and outgoing calls, not texts...with the exception of a text included to Sean H. at 5:52 PM that does not appear in the original phone records from ATT and no inclusion of the incoming call at 9:35 PM from Mark H. (probably because KC was calling VM???)

Also, LE had a slightly different time recorded as noted. One might be tempted to jump to the conclusion that LE's report has errors and our spreadsheet is correct. But I doubt it...they were grabbing everyone's phone number during the interviews.

12:11:39 PM OUTGOING CALL CA
12:12:41 PM OUTGOING CALL Amy
1:20:18 PM OUTGOING CALL Amy
1:20:41 PM OUTGOING CALL Amy
2:09:36 PM OUTGOING CALL Andy F
2:10:40 PM INCOMING CALL Andy F
2:58:42 PM OUTGOING CALL KC
4:20:20 PM OUTGOING CALL Gentiva Health
4:23:10 PM OUTGOING CALL Amy
5:52:00 PM LE says outgoing text to Sean H
9:13:19 PM OUTGOING CALL CA
9:19:03 PM OUTGOING CALL KC (LE says 9:18)

Note the Andy F calls. We had misidentified this as being Matt C. If in fact the number we have for Matt C is incorrect - which I have no doubt that it is - then our timeline established for the Crane's Landing visit may be entirely incorrect. Right now, we cannot reliably identify which texts or calls KC made or received were with Matt. :banghead::banghead::banghead:

Other questions to ponder. First, is the phone number we were using for Andy F invalid, or does he have a second phone? If no second phone, who was she calling so much then on the 30th?

The good news is that the new text to Sean H supports our timeline for her visit with him quite well. She is likely pinging him to say she is about to stop by.

ETA: Turns out it is an error in the summation produced by LE and I have explained this error here.

 

[JBean]

this is turning into a time line and cell ping discussion..so i am moving it to that forum.

 

[debs]

To abruptly turn this back to the question of the thread: Where is Amy's car?????

 

[Bobo]

Bobo, I know you'll hate this, because "aha!" moments are really really good feelings, but Casey wasn't there when Amy and Will picked up Amy's car. As soon as Casey knew they were on the way, she left.

Thanks Debs. No, I don't hate info that helps me understand things. Please don't ever hesitate to point out any of my errors. If I disagree with you I'll let you know and why I may disagree (but I hope I never do that in a disagreeable manner - LOL)

To abruptly turn this back to the question of the thread: Where is Amy's car?????

Thanks again, Debs, for saving this thread! :blowkiss:

I've been off reading & re-reading docs. You are right about KC hightailing it on 6/19 when Amy, Will (& Unknown tow guy?) came to Sutton Place regarding Amy's wrecked car. But what I was trying to pin down and tie in was Amy's wrecked car and any connection to Will and/or Will's friend Dusty's friend Ryan. (oh my, is that clear as mud?)

From my reading today,
1. I still think Will may have met KC before his 4th of July party -- but that is only a side note regarding Amy's wrecked car. UNLESS one thinks that Will may have had a hand in the disposition of Amy's car -- and/or the disposition of little Caylee's body after her death.

2. I do NOT think Amy's wrecked car was "picked up" (towed away?) from TL's apt. complex on 6/19 as Debs stated. Here is why: On 7/7, around 3:30 PM, Amy has text message to KC and says that she (Amy) is "going to do the car towing thing" when she's done at the doctor's that afternoon. KC texts back "Sounds good. I'll be here." Now where "here" is on 7/7 at 3:30 PM requires looking at the cell ping/timeline info, but I'm going to go with she is indicating she is at TL's.

3. I have not run across any reference (or at least not that I can remember) to establish that TL even knew about Amy's wrecked car being at his apt complex. That is, other than texts from KC to Amy on 6/14 where she claimed "He said it doesn't matter where you park it." We assume KC meant that TL said it doesn't matter where you park it. I don't think TL ever knew that Amy's wrecked car was there. In fact, outside of KC, Amy, & Will -- I can't think of anyone I could positively say knew that Amy's car was at Sutton Place Apts.

O/T but I'm glad we hashed out some of the pings/timeline stuff. REALLY happy to hear that the phone numbers (Matt C/Andy F) thing has had some light shone there.

Equally glad to return to the question of the thread: Where IS Amy's totalled car????

 

[It's Not the Nanny]

Question about towing Amy's car to Sutton Apts.....

I'm assuming the office is located somewhere up front/central to the entrance of the apt complex??? We know from CocoaMom's sleuthing that the gates are open during the day.

Do you think a leasing agent or office manager type person would notice a big ol' tow truck pulling in with a car and backing it into a spot?

I'm positive that the car was towed there and love the idea that TonE probably didn't know (good post above, Bobo!), but SURELY the staff saw it coming through the gates and knew about it????

I've said this previously but maybe someone just needs to call the office tomorrow morning and ask if a car was ever towed there last summer and did they remember how long it stayed or if they ever noticed police showing up to do their work on it. I'm positive with the publicity of this case that a leasing agent/office worker WOULD KNOW if Amy's car was investigated by the police......and maybe if it was even there.

You may get someone that will start gabbing away....you may get someone that knows they aren't supposed to talk. Either way, you may get a clue about where the car was parked, how long it could have been there, and if LE showed up to examine it!! Did a tow truck ever show up to tow it away again???? I honestly think the staff would have noticed this!

Someone needs to call Sutton Apts!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[BondJamesBond]

Thanks Debs. No, I don't hate info that helps me understand things. Please don't ever hesitate to point out any of my errors. If I disagree with you I'll let you know and why I may disagree (but I hope I never do that in a disagreeable manner - LOL)

Thanks again, Debs, for saving this thread! :blowkiss:

I've been off reading & re-reading docs. You are right about KC hightailing it on 6/19 when Amy, Will (& Unknown tow guy?) came to Sutton Place regarding Amy's wrecked car. But what I was trying to pin down and tie in was Amy's wrecked car and any connection to Will and/or Will's friend Dusty's friend Ryan. (oh my, is that clear as mud?)

From my reading today,
1. I still think Will may have met KC before his 4th of July party -- but that is only a side note regarding Amy's wrecked car. UNLESS one thinks that Will may have had a hand in the disposition of Amy's car -- and/or the disposition of little Caylee's body after her death.

2. I do NOT think Amy's wrecked car was "picked up" (towed away?) from TL's apt. complex on 6/19 as Debs stated. Here is why: On 7/7, around 3:30 PM, Amy has text message to KC and says that she (Amy) is "going to do the car towing thing" when she's done at the doctor's that afternoon. KC texts back "Sounds good. I'll be here." Now where "here" is on 7/7 at 3:30 PM requires looking at the cell ping/timeline info, but I'm going to go with she is indicating she is at TL's.

3. I have not run across any reference (or at least not that I can remember) to establish that TL even knew about Amy's wrecked car being at his apt complex. That is, other than texts from KC to Amy on 6/14 where she claimed "He said it doesn't matter where you park it." We assume KC meant that TL said it doesn't matter where you park it. I don't think TL ever knew that Amy's wrecked car was there. In fact, outside of KC, Amy, & Will -- I can't think of anyone I could positively say knew that Amy's car was at Sutton Place Apts.

O/T but I'm glad we hashed out some of the pings/timeline stuff. REALLY happy to hear that the phone numbers (Matt C/Andy F) thing has had some light shone there.

Equally glad to return to the question of the thread: Where IS Amy's totalled car????

1) Bobo, Debs, etc. My apologies. Seems like the cell/ping deep dive resulted in this getting moved over to the sticky forum. IMHO, it'll be easier to keep up w/ here and focus in on it. FWIW, I'll be able to answer some of your questions here too using cell/ping data. Also, IMHO, it was necessary to establish the credibility of Amy's totalled car (will PM some locals to ask if they'll get the report so we'll know more about it) having been used to stow the body. I think its a very real possibility based on the info developed here.

2) Bobo - Casey pinged @ Tony's apt 7/7 from 8:11AM to at least 6:16PM. Reading Amy's texts that day it seems possible that her car is still @ Tony's apt., although not 100%, IMHO. If it were still there it would allow me to speculate that Casey moved the body back into Amy's car after xferring it into a sealed container 6/19, until she had the opportunity to dispose of it when Tony left for NY. The twist was Casey had planned to use the Pontiac for the disposal, but, didn't get the chance since it was towed 6/30 when she was scaring up a gas can w/ Amy. This left her to use Tony's Jeep. If she decided to get off-road just a little bit this would explain her washing it before Tony's return. Also, FWIW, on 7/7, Casey is texting with Will the entire morning, and from the first text of the day, from Casey to Amy that included, "You know Will went back and bought that.. Oh, that boy!" suggests they had been together the day before. Amy left for PR the next day. Seems very likely the car was towed from somewhere this day...perhaps from Tony's. IMHO, Will would've been involved again if he had been involved before. Anything in Will's statements, etc. to shed light on it?

ETA: Also, regarding Will, OT, but, FWIW. Will had a real-jacked-up-serious-mudder-of-a-Jeep Wrangler he listed for sale in August. IIRC, the transmission was toast. Waaaay out on a limb, but, if Casey got stuck in Tony's Jeep GC and needed a pull...ok...jus' FYI, FWIW, etc.

3) Casey implies she talked w/ someone about stowing the car there, then, suggest she'll check w/ the "clubhouse". So...w/ Casey's crediblity...who knows. Amy suggests she could get a cover for it....dunno if that ever happened. If Sutton Apt has security cams on their parking lot there'd be a chance of knowing more about what happened w/ this car. I would think they'd want it stowed outta the way. Looking @ their parking lot in sat. view there are some outta the way spaces FWIW.

 

[Bobo]

1) Bobo, Debs, etc. My apologies. Seems like the cell/ping deep dive resulted in this getting moved over to the sticky forum. IMHO, it'll be easier to keep up w/ here and focus in on it. FWIW, I'll be able to answer some of your questions here too using cell/ping data. Also, IMHO, it was necessary to establish the credibility of Amy's totalled car (will PM some locals to ask if they'll get the report so we'll know more about it) having been used to stow the body. I think its a very real possibility based on the info developed here.

2) Bobo - Casey pinged @ Tony's apt 7/7 from 8:11AM to at least 6:16PM. Reading Amy's texts that day it seems possible that her car is still @ Tony's apt., although not 100%, IMHO. If it were still there it would allow me to speculate that Casey moved the body back into Amy's car after xferring it into a sealed container 6/19, until she had the opportunity to dispose of it when Tony left for NY. The twist was Casey had planned to use the Pontiac for the disposal, but, didn't get the chance since it was towed 6/30 when she was scaring up a gas can w/ Amy. This left her to use Tony's Jeep. If she decided to get off-road just a little bit this would explain her washing it before Tony's return. Also, FWIW, on 7/7, Casey is texting with Will the entire morning, and from the first text of the day, from Casey to Amy that included, "You know Will went back and bought that.. Oh, that boy!" suggests they had been together the day before. Amy left for PR the next day. Seems very likely the car was towed from somewhere this day...perhaps from Tony's. IMHO, Will would've been involved again if he had been involved before. Anything in Will's statements, etc. to shed light on it?

3) Casey implies she talked w/ someone about stowing the car there, then, suggest she'll check w/ the "clubhouse". So...w/ Casey's crediblity...who knows. Amy suggests she could get a cover for it....dunno if that ever happened. If Sutton Apt has security cams on their parking lot there'd be a chance of knowing more about what happened w/ this car. I would think they'd want it stowed outta the way. Looking @ their parking lot in sat. view there are some outta the way spaces FWIW.

Per Will's transcript, KC and Will spent mid day together 7/5 at IKEA, before KC went to the airport to pick up TL. Amy is referring to a poster that KC liked but did not buy 7/5. According to his transcript, he claims that 7/5 is the last time he and KC were face-to-face. But lots of text/phone contact whenever TL was not around.

Its Not The Nanny suggested :blowkiss: that someone should try to call the Sutton offices about a wrecked or covered car being on their grounds. I doubt that they will answer any questions from other than LE, though. But you never know, someone may have an inside track there. Any takers out there?

Thanks to everyone's expertise on the pings & phone analysis! Bond, saw your statistical/probability analysis on another thread. I wish I could be a little more proficient in that area and I'm certainly glad to see you on board here.

Yep, been some fine work exhibited on many threads performed by many people! We're getting closer IMO! :run:

 

[It's Not the Nanny]

Do we know if TonE is still posting on any boards anywhere? I saw early on that he was. It would be interesting to ask him if he knew if Amy's car had been towed there and if LE ever examined it.

As for calling the office at Sutton, you never know who will answer and what they will say! We've had people come on here and answer questions for us that are involved in the case. Just because they can verify the car was there and that LE came out, doesn't mean they will jeopardize the case.

I think Amy's car is a huge piece to our very big puzzle and if could just KNOW if LE ever checked it out or towed it away, it would be safe to confirm that KC placed Caylee there for safe keeping until she came up with a new plan.

 

[Bobo]

I'm grasping at straws here.

Do we have any kind of description of Amy's totaled car? Color? Make? Anything?

Maybe everyone has already thought of this, but it's just getting clear in my head that perhaps KC's description of false Zanny Nanny really does fit the description of Amy's wreck?

OK, I'll retreat now.

 

[It's Not the Nanny]

Bobo - YES! I'm sure she used real parts of her life to make her stories up to CA.

Do we remember the make of Zanny's car??


Don't retreat! We need your help.

 

[gingerdog]

I'm grasping at straws here.

Do we have any kind of description of Amy's totaled car? Color? Make? Anything?

Maybe everyone has already thought of this, but it's just getting clear in my head that perhaps KC's description of false Zanny Nanny really does fit the description of Amy's wreck?

OK, I'll retreat now.

--------
This seems possible to me. She did seem to link events with Amy with her Zanny stories -- Amy had a real car accident so she makes up Zanny's car accident, etc. Also, in this thread someone quotes a text from WW saying "bring Amy's car over and I"ll take off that tint." Doesn't KC mention to CA in one of the jail phone conversations when describing Zanny's car that the windows are not tinted. She could have had Amy's old car in mind when coming up with this description.

 

[Bobo]

--------
This seems possible to me. She did seem to link events with Amy with her Zanny stories -- Amy had a real car accident so she makes up Zanny's car accident, etc. Also, in this thread someone quotes a text from WW saying "bring Amy's car over and I"ll take off that tint." Doesn't KC mention to CA in one of the jail phone conversations when describing Zanny's car that the windows are not tinted. She could have had Amy's old car in mind when coming up with this description.

I was hoping someone could come up with a description of Amy's wrecked car and that I either missed it or forgot it.

I didn't mean I was retreating from this topic - LOL - But thank you for your responses. :blowkiss: I should have been clearer. I meant that I felt I had to get away from this computer . . . . for my sanity :crazy: . . . and to get some other non-Casey things done. I intend to let my thoughts roll around awhile and rest my eyes from the screen. Perhaps giving these matters a little rest will let some other things dawn on me? I hope!:waitasec:

 

[momtective]

I'm grasping at straws here.

Do we have any kind of description of Amy's totaled car? Color? Make? Anything?

Maybe everyone has already thought of this, but it's just getting clear in my head that perhaps KC's description of false Zanny Nanny really does fit the description of Amy's wreck?

OK, I'll retreat now.

Pg 27 Doc 1 11-26-08
Casey said Zenaida drove a silver 2008 Ford Focus, no tint, very basic, with a pink floral car seat in the right passenger side rear.

Amy now drives a red Toyota corolla
She wrecked her other car on Friday 6-6-08

Sorry I can't find anything as far as the make, model, and color of Amy's wrecked car. Maybe someone could check with the DMV in Orlando or Orange county tax office.My Daughter works at the tax office here and has access to info in our State...anyone know someone who works at the tax office in Orange Co. Fl?

 

[AZlawyer]

Pg 27 Doc 1 11-26-08
Casey said Zenaida drove a silver 2008 Ford Focus, no tint, very basic, with a pink floral car seat in the right passenger side rear.

Amy now drives a red Toyota corolla
She wrecked her other car on Friday 6-6-08

Sorry I can't find anything as far as the make, model, and color of Amy's wrecked car. Maybe someone could check with the DMV in Orlando or Orange county tax office.My Daughter works at the tax office here and has access to info in our State...anyone know someone who works at the tax office in Orange Co. Fl?

If anyone lives in the area they might be able to get the records for Amy's 2005 traffic case: case no. 05-TR-0028317-O in Orange County. Of course she might not have had the same car in 2005 as she did in 2008.

Also I have a memory of having seen pictures of the wrecked car on Amy's myspace page...but can't find it now!

 

[BondJamesBond]

If anyone lives in the area they might be able to get the records for Amy's 2005 traffic case: case no. 05-TR-0028317-O in Orange County. Of course she might not have had the same car in 2005 as she did in 2008.

Also I have a memory of having seen pictures of the wrecked car on Amy's myspace page...but can't find it now!

Nice, AZlawyer, nice! I emailed another WS in the area asking if they'd check it out for us. No warranty - written or implied And, it may take a couple days, unless someone else can jump in.

 

[AZlawyer]

Speaking of Amy...and her car...and the mysterious key destroyed (or whatever) by Lee...

Anyone understand this text from Amy to KC--appears to be the afternoon of June 13, between a bunch of texts re: George's supposed stroke and Amy packing and moving:

AH: 10 keys made. Done.

If people's guesses about matching up AH's incoming and outgoing texts are correct, KC replied "Awesome."

 

[BondJamesBond]

Speaking of Amy...and her car...and the mysterious key destroyed (or whatever) by Lee...

Anyone understand this text from Amy to KC--appears to be the afternoon of June 13, between a bunch of texts re: George's supposed stroke and Amy packing and moving:

AH: 10 keys made. Done.

If people's guesses about matching up AH's incoming and outgoing texts are correct, KC replied "Awesome."

...justaswag...but, the backdrop was Amy movin'in w/ Casey...outta her storage unit and gettin' the guys to provide the labor for pizza & beer. Maybe the 10 keys were for her storage unit to facilitate all the helpers.

...nice catch! Timing of that now has me curious 'bout the storage units location assuming Casey got her hands on one of those keys.

Work-in-progress theory had Casey shuffling the body into a container out @ the Oviedo house, but, then the question was where'd she take it? Storage unit???? ....until Tony's outta town...

OT: Anyone gotta fix on the storage unit location?

 

[Recovering-Lurker]

Speaking of Amy...and her car...and the mysterious key destroyed (or whatever) by Lee...

Anyone understand this text from Amy to KC--appears to be the afternoon of June 13, between a bunch of texts re: George's supposed stroke and Amy packing and moving:

AH: 10 keys made. Done.

If people's guesses about matching up AH's incoming and outgoing texts are correct, KC replied "Awesome."

I can't remember where, but someone said that Amy had a habit of locking herself out of her car, and so she had extra keys made. That way, if she could give them to her friends, and they could help her out. I don't know if this is true or not, but it could be.