FL FL - Michelle Parker, 33, Orlando, 17 Nov 2011 - #16

[PJFL]

PJ did you see what I was referring too on the first question? I can't find it now and it looks like it may have went "Poof" Maybe I just overlooked it. Anyways I saw it. LOL

:floorlaugh: I asked you just as you asked me.

I believe you.

 

[enzeder]

Engender...do you have the complete video with the pic time stamped 17:17?

If so can you post it? TIA

It's shown on here Sparky. It is shown running alongside the earlier video on the left.

Hummer Nov 24 Video :: IMG_0623.mp4 video by dixie6920 - Photobucket

 

[enzeder]

Sparky: the 17:17 vehicle comes into view, on the left hand side of video, around 1:59.

 

[Darcyline]

Does anyone have a good source or good information about how many women in America are actually trafficked while not in foreign countries? Every case with a missing female brings up the trafficking possibility and I am so ignorant I could not even comment on whether it is possible or not. Most website sources I find seem either really exaggerated or really vague. Thanks in advance.


I am willing to entertain different possibilities, but I still think the culprit is the person that has been the center of all discussions and that her body is just unfortunately eluding LE.

 

[captdj]

JMO - Dale was staying at his parents house with the twins over the holidays. He is suppose to find out if he can go back to work Monday.

I believe LE had his cell phone for 6-7 days recently.

:great::great::great:Agian the is Just My Opinion......shotgun!:great::great::great:

I think he need to find another place for the children...
IMO if he fails to do so out of arrogance then I bet DCF will be on his doorstep....

BTW Great Find...

 

[JadedGrace]

Does anyone have a good source or good information about how many women in America are actually trafficked while not in foreign countries? Every case with a missing female brings up the trafficking possibility and I am so ignorant I could not even comment on whether it is possible or not. Most website sources I find seem either really exaggerated or really vague. Thanks in advance.


I am willing to entertain different possibilities, but I still think the culprit is the person that has been the center of all discussions and that her body is just unfortunately eluding LE.

Darcy, we are trained on this with the center i work with for victims advocacy- it happens more often than one would think- but generally we are talking about foster care children, run aways, etc. Young women, out on their own, vulnerable and needing "shelter" - not American, English speaking women snatched off the streets in main stream America. Not to say it doesn't happen like that- but it's not the norm. Generally when we deal with domestic sex trafficking it is women who were "acquired" as children, brain washed, and sold into domestic trafficking. If Michelle were in a foreign country, unfamiliar with her surroundings , and not familiar with the native language (Columbia for example) and mysteriously disappeared that would be a time when international trafficking should be considered immediately. Again, not to say it couldn't have happened in this case- but it is certainly not a likely scenario. someone went through trouble to disguise her vehicle and send a decoy text- a sex trafficking ring with no ties to her would have no reason to do this.

 

[captdj]

I plotted on the attached overhead shot what I am guessing, from AlwaysWright's description of her 1/6/12 photos, are the two condos that she identified as having surveillance cams.

As you probably know, click on the thumbnail for a larger picture. DS II's condo indicated in orange, the two cam condos in yellow.

When I looked at this and think that these cams could hold the answer to Michelles Hummer it makes me feel ill thinking what if LE hasnt canvassed the neighbors and gotten this information....

Maybe LE drove by and missed these cams by looking to the right...and was not as good as our own AlwaysWright.

Again I have to ask, in light of the fact that DS2 neighbor just two door away didnt know about Michelle, should this information be sent to LE?

 

[captdj]

IMO

I am not dismissing the 17:17/5:17 pm video capture as Michelle's Hummer being driven away from the condo. It seems that there's a good chance that is indeed her Hummer. Still, I think it's useful to consider other scenarios until we have confirmation of that. So I propose the following possibilities, IMO, and have indicated them on the attached picture:

1. The 17:17/5:17 PM Hummer captured on NG's video is Michelle's Hummer (route indicated in black)
   
2. Although the Hummer in #1 isn't Michelle's, sometime after 3:18 pm, her Hummer was driven the same exit route, but we don't have the video capture of that departure. (indicated in black)
   
3. The Hummer was driven west from Dale's condo, turning south and then driving east adjacent to Lee Vista, sometime after 3:18 pm. (indicated in red)
   
4. The Hummer was driven west from Dale's condo, turning north, and then driving around the curve and east, sometime after 3:18 pm. (indicated in yellow)

I've also indicated alternate routes (in blue) for exiting Carter Glen through the north exit, should the driver have wanted to drive north on Goldenrod.

IMO

Oops !!! there is another route she could have gone out.... the yellow route...ok are there any cameras there?

 

[captdj]

Interesting that the white van is parked in the same general location in that condo complex as where MP's Hummer was found in the other one isn't it? In the public parking area in front of the clubhouse?

Is it possible the van is used by someone in the complex for repairs to the condos? Like a maintenance person or something? Maybe someone was in one of the other neighbouring units fixing something at the time MP was at DSJr's. Perhaps they have given some good witness information to LE. Or perhaps nothing at all and that white van is just a red herring because it belongs to someone completely unrelated to this.

It is odd to me that LE seem to have taken all searches away from DSJr's condo right from the night of the 18th which makes me think they must have some evidence that MP left that area alive somehow. I wonder if that is when they got the video from the neighbour. So why then do they have DSJr as the prime suspect? Did he follow her out? Did he go with her in the Hummer? What if he had asked her when she arrived to drive him and the kids over to his parents place? Maybe told her the red pick up truck was over there. Or maybe the truck was over there? :waitasec:

This, of course, would seem like a much more premeditated crime. Or it was an innocent request that got out of hand during the drive over.

MOO

Could the area where the van was parked be consider overflow parking? Like maybe because of the garage sale etc they moved it there to allow for more customers...

One thought I had early on was what if it belonged to Big Dale after Little Dale Called him that afternoon but it being at the apartments makes me think it could belong to someone there.

 

[GrammaMaybe]

I want to make sure everyone knows that just because I am posting the next set of questions does not mean that I feel that the previous questions are not up for discussion. All questions are open for discussion at all times, I just thought going methodically through the list would be helpful and guarantee each question was touched upon. Hope I am not seeming to rush through them.
Here is the next group of questions, they are somewhat intertwined so I included them all.

10. When did MP’s sister LE call DS II on 11/17/11, and what time did YS call DS II 11/17/11 evening?

11. What numbers did she try and when (ie, cell, or land line at condo or Rose Av.)?

12. If Mrs. DS Sr. (TS) answered the call to Rose Av., what did she say to YS in reference to why DS II couldn’t come to the phone?

13. When did DS II return YS’s call, and from what number?


I am going to need some coffee before I start rating the importance of these questions and trying to answer them but I wanted to get them out there this morning.

We have the answer to #8; it's combo of a couple of newscasts.

 

[andalso]

MOO in red.

10. When did MP’s sister LE call DS II on 11/17/11, and what time did YS call DS II 11/17/11 evening?
I would venture to say both would have tried to call DSII once they learned she didn't not make it home to meet her eldest son, but I can't say for sure when that was. I imagine there was a flurry of calls going on as soon as they had any reason to suspect she was missing, and I am extremely confident DSII would have been one of the first calls MP's sister and mom would have made.
IMO this is a B- on the importance scale. I personally don't think their calls to him would have changed anything...he likely just hit ignore.

11. What numbers did she try and when (ie, cell, or land line at condo or Rose Av.)?
I think the she in this question should actually be "they" , meaning both MP's sister LE and her mom YS. Assuming that, IMO, they likely called all of the phone numbers above frantically, just not sure in what order.
IMO, again a B-, I don't think DSII was flustered by phone calls coming in because he had covered with the Waterford text.

12. If Mrs. DS Sr. (TS) answered the call to Rose Av., what did she say to YS in reference to why DS II couldn’t come to the phone?
I'm not sure where to find any info on this call. Anyone? I see this question has an if, and I think that is a very big if. Might she have just let the call/s go to voicemail and have DSII return the call.
I would grade this an A on the importance scale. If she covered for him, it could have bought him time. and that's huge!

13. When did DS II return YS’s call, and from what number?
Not sure. Would like to know.
Grade A, I think it's very important to the timeline.


This all my opinion right now and my opinion can change!

 

[andalso]

O/T a quick thing.

Please consider all of your posts thanked! I just can't run back and 'thank' right now but I really do thank all of you for being here and for your thoughts, humor, wit, dedication, and sometimes pure brilliance! Andalso, for your great use of smilies!



Let's find Michelle!

 

[nobodynoz]

MOO in red.

10. When did MP’s sister LE call DS II on 11/17/11, and what time did YS call DS II 11/17/11 evening?
I would venture to say both would have tried to call DSII once they learned she didn't not make it home to meet her eldest son, but I can't say for sure when that was. I imagine there was a flurry of calls going on as soon as they had any reason to suspect she was missing, and I am extremely confident DSII would have been one of the first calls MP's sister and mom would have made.
IMO this is a B- on the importance scale. I personally don't think their calls to him would have changed anything...he likely just hit ignore.

11. What numbers did she try and when (ie, cell, or land line at condo or Rose Av.)?
I think the she in this question should actually be "they" , meaning both MP's sister LE and her mom YS. Assuming that, IMO, they likely called all of the phone numbers above frantically, just not sure in what order.
IMO, again a B-, I don't think DSII was flustered by phone calls coming in because he had covered with the Waterford text.

12. If Mrs. DS Sr. (TS) answered the call to Rose Av., what did she say to YS in reference to why DS II couldn’t come to the phone?
I'm not sure where to find any info on this call. Anyone? I see this question has an if, and I think that is a very big if. Might she have just let the call/s go to voicemail and have DSII return the call.
I would grade this an A on the importance scale. If she covered for him, it could have bought him time. and that's huge!

13. When did DS II return YS’s call, and from what number?
Not sure. Would like to know.
Grade A, I think it's very important to the timeline.


This all my opinion right now and my opinion can change!

Question #10 was originally about Yvonne's call only, which is why question #11 says "she". I added the sister's call later, although it didn't seem as important to pin that down except in respect to the timeline. I will definitely change #11 to "they," even though I feel that the most important of the callers was Yvonne simply because she called and Mama Smith answered instead of Dale. Thanks for pointing that out!

To explain why I think that #11 is important in reference to Yvonne: it matters if Yvonne was calling Dale's cell and his mother answered. That would be peculiar and telling. If Yvonne called the land line at Rose Ave., it's not odd for the mother to have answered. See what I mean?

I think I ought to add to #13. It should read: "When did DS II return YS's call, from what number, and, if from his cell, from what location?"

I appreciate all the input and thought you're putting into this, andalso. You address the questions so thoroughly!

 

[captdj]

jmoo.... gonna throw out a curve ball. i dont think it was ds at all. i think he's just a patsy, an east target to frame based on his well known history with her. the location where mp's cell phone was found later, between the ds homes, seems like a plant to me. not to get anyones hopes up, but i think mp may still be alive, but may have been taken (trafficked) out of the country. Just a hunch, not based on any facts... and the 'raid' on ds sr, was probably based on a 'tip'. these folks are known by the perps and i sense serious retaliation...

http://www.justice.gov/ndic/dmas/Central_Florida_DMA-2011(U).pdf
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...es-craigslist-and-backpage-aleksandra-liubina

It doesn't hurt to look at all angles...

I was thinking yesterday that if the location for the 4:26 ping was in the opposite direction of Michelle's home and at sand lake and orange or orange blossom not sure this location has been confirmed) there would be about a 55 minute window from when Dale said she left)

Ok Home is north....4:26 text is south then west. and drive time is about 20-25 minutes that time of the day(maybe) but then if perp had to double back to get there ...what would be the farthest point Michelle could have been apprehended after leaving the condo.

So 55-25 leaves 30 minutes but divide that in half to double back from the direction of heading home... so then if ( BIG IF) Michelle did leave the condo she could have only travelled 10-15 minutes away from Dales ...( this would give the perp a few minutes to get the car stopped and take over.....It couldn't have happened and further away than that or the perp would not have time to get to the 4:26 location.

I don't know her route home either but to me if my figures are about right then it puts what happened to Michelle a lot closer to Dales condo and then whatever happened to her it occurred at 3:30PM to 3:40 or 3:45PM.


Am I making any sense?

My thoughts are it happened before 3:30PM but still wanted to know" if "she left how far could she have gotten before being abducted and the perp still make it to the location for the 4:26 text.

 

[nobodynoz]

We have the answer to #8; it's combo of a couple of newscasts.

I'll wait until someone finds the newscasts so a link can be included. Then if it's confirmed, we can mark #8 as resolved.

 

[Jazzmaster]

Been reading over thread 16 and a few thoughts occurred:

I believe we need to separately account for Michelle, her phone, and her vehicle. I believe Michelle was separated from her phone very early on during her disappearance. Phone was used as distraction/monitoring IMO.

We also need to account for any "missing" time for Dale (opportunity to destroy/hide evidence)

2:30 - last time Michelle's family sees Michelle

3:00ish Michelle picks up twins at daycare. Whenever Michelle picks up twins is when she could have gone missing. Notice time is prior to 3:18

Up until 3:15 texts going back & forth to sister and current boyfriend. We're these truly from Michelle?

3:18 Michelle vehicle spotted on camera. We have no proof Michele was in vehicle (last sighting of Michelle Hummer with Glow sticker)

3:28 when Michelle would have left Dale's (if she truly stayed 10 mins as Dale stated)

4:00 reasonable time Dale would have left his condo to get to parents by 4:30

Up to this point we have 42 minutes of time Dale could have done something with Michelle, vehicle, and phone. There is a full 72 mins (as described by DS attorney) but we have to assume 30 mins of this would be consumed by driving time.

4:26 can we confirm location/ping where "Waterford" text was sent?

4:30 Dale supposedly is at parents according to eyewitness. Who is this eyewitness? Did they physically see Dale? Was it just his vehicle? Was witness non-family member?

5:00 if dale dropped off kids at parents and immediately drove home, 5pm is a reasonable time when he could have arrived back at his condo.

5:17 was hummer seen leaving on neighbor video Michelle's Hummer?

Yvonne calls Dale and gets his mother. What time was this call made? Where was Dale when call came in? Which phone did Yvonne call? Dale's cell? Dale's parents home phone?

7:20 Michelle reported missing by Lauren her sister

8:00 phone last pings Oakridge Rd. *Phone missing approx. 4 hours 42 mins.

phone is powered down coincidently when she is supposed to be at work. Key insight: IMO abductor knew his time was up. She would be reported missing after failing to show up at work. Where did phone ping between 3:18 and 8:00pm power down?

What time did Dale call back Yvonne Stewart? Where did this ping?

10:30 hummer spotted by person walking dog.Michelle's Hummer on a curb at the Walden Palms condominium complex at 4700 Walden Circle. Hummer missing approx 7 hours 12 mins.

11:08 Dale via Facebook is back at condo and supposedly just met with police. Where was Dale between 4:30 and 11:08 - here is at least another 6 hours 38 mins of unaccounted time for Dale.

What other key times in here can we confirm?

 

[andalso]

Question #10 was originally about Yvonne's call only, which is why question #11 says "she". I added the sister's call later, although it didn't seem as important to pin that down except in respect to the timeline. I will definitely change #11 to "they," even though I feel that the most important of the callers was Yvonne simply because she called and Mama Smith answered instead of Dale. Thanks for pointing that out!

To explain why I think that #11 is important in reference to Yvonne: it matters if Yvonne was calling Dale's cell and his mother answered. That would be peculiar and telling. If Yvonne called the land line at Rose Ave., it's not odd for the mother to have answered. See what I mean?

I think I ought to add to #13. It should read: "When did DS II return YS's call, from what number, and, if from his cell, from what location?"

I appreciate all the input and thought you're putting into this, andalso. You address the questions so thoroughly!

I see what you are saying about #11. Maybe you could change it to 11a and 11b. 11a being LE's (sister) call and 11b being YS's (mom's) call. Then you could note the difference in importance in the calls.

Hey nobody, I think we make a good team! If it weren't for you, I would have no list of questions! You have given me/us a great tool to work with!

 

[Pias]

It's shown on here Sparky. It is shown running alongside the earlier video on the left.

Hummer Nov 24 Video :: IMG_0623.mp4 video by dixie6920 - Photobucket

@1:05- can anyone positively identify this van make? TIA:seeya: see post 842 if the link isnt working. And sorry if thats already been done. I'm a few posts behind

 

[BritsKate]

jmoo.... gonna throw out a curve ball. i dont think it was ds at all. i think he's just a patsy, an east target to frame based on his well known history with her. the location where mp's cell phone was found later, between the ds homes, seems like a plant to me. not to get anyones hopes up, but i think mp may still be alive, but may have been taken (trafficked) out of the country. Just a hunch, not based on any facts... and the 'raid' on ds sr, was probably based on a 'tip'. these folks are known by the perps and i sense serious retaliation...

http://www.justice.gov/ndic/dmas/Central_Florida_DMA-2011(U).pdf
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...es-craigslist-and-backpage-aleksandra-liubina

The first link in your post references drug trafficking though I presume you mean human trafficking based on the content of your post?

From the 2nd link in your post:

Federal authorities said Caraiman imported people from Russia and sought to bring women from other countries to the United States, all to work in the sex trade.

and

Caraiman, Belinschi and Postica are accused of using at least one website to recruit non-U.S. citizens to work in the sex industry in America.

Sex trafficking is a huge problem here in the UK. My understanding is that it is usually foreign women brought here with the promise of a good paying job, tuition, housing, etc and it is usually younger or more vulnerable women.

I would love to believe Michelle is alive, somewhere, but all my personal logic based on the facts I know of this case point to Dale Jr being complicit for her murder and Dale Sr protecting his son. MOO

 

[Pias]

Could the area where the van was parked be consider overflow parking? Like maybe because of the garage sale etc they moved it there to allow for more customers...

One thought I had early on was what if it belonged to Big Dale after Little Dale Called him that afternoon but it being at the apartments makes me think it could belong to someone there.

that did get me to thinking tho, was the difference between m arriving and the van arriving, equal to the time it takes to drive from Sr's to Jr's? TIA:seeya: Especially if someone were headed to an emergency?